Where am I hiding from this? I have said on multiple posts that if it comes to pass that Formula messed up, that I will jump all over them. and yes, if there are actual facts that prove an issue on Formula's part, I will post them on Boatfreaks. (which BTY isn't "my" site)

5 of 5 boats, and ONE picture that doesn't really show much. If I had a boat with a hull/deck joint failure, I'd have tons of pictures of the lack of Plexus, and the repair process.

The response from Formula that is printed below is pretty clear on what they think. Their boats are great, but like every boat, thye can make them better. There are tons of boats out there that use just screws and sealer to hold the deck to the hull. So Formula is heads above them already.

It seems that Formula does not agree with you. However, they are offering you money to do the repairs even way outside of warranty, which IMHO is above and beyond what they have to do.

I don't think that Formula depreciates faster then other boats. The resale did take a hit while they did their no interest for X months and what ever else they did to get people to buy. Cigs, OL, Nortecs all start out at a MUCH higher price so they will resell higher. Formula has their loyal fallowing as does Cig. and so on. If you want a boat that holds its value better then any it would probably be a Superboat or a Pantera. Hell Specialized racing has won 3 world champions with a boat that is 24 years old! Superboat owners/buyers are like a cult. The just hold their value like nothing I have ever seen.

Zone 5. I think that Norts concern (and I hope that I am not putting words into his mouth), that he has said multiple times, is that he brought this out because he wants other owners to be aware of the possible issue and to keep a close eye out for it. Will all boats have this issue, I doubt it, but 5 out of 5 of the boats on the west coast that he boats with did. Now maybe because the first guy had the issue the other 4 checked their boats to find the same issue? Maybe now that other people are going to know about the possibility we will hear of others.

IMO Formula makes a good boat, but they have often times made HUGE errors in construction. Some examples of this is not capping bulkheads with glass, how many people have had to replace their transoms on their 311's and other boats. This could be another manufacturing issue. Maybe they have fixed it already maybe not. Lets just all be aware that the issue exists on SOME boats and as owners do out part to keep an eye on our boats.

Gunfight
 

Norts intent was not to incite a riot or gunfight. It seems that this thread is getting a little hostile. Believe me I have photos and videos. I also have videos and photos of the system Archer developed to to the repairs. I am hesitant to post all this because it will add gas to the fire and really is not necesscary. Our intent is to make owners aware of the issue, PERIOD. We could have turned this into a gangfight lawsuit but we did not. We have better things to do and in our cases there were no injuries or accidents. THATS ALL. If you do have a failure I will be glad to E-mail you the repair video and procedure free of charge.

this still scares me this is my last boat

I would post them,if you don't want to could you send them to me.I will not post them but would like to see them.

I would like to see the repair procedure. Maybe I will do my 311 differently. [email protected]

Thanks

We did ours three years ago , Thought it was because it was run hard and it is a 96 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And then there were six.

Does anyone have any objection if I go through and clean out any of the banter that does not specifically relate to this topic? I think that with this looking like it may be more serious then we thought it is important that we keep it 100% on topic. Mostly I am thinking get rid of all the financing stuff?

Jon

1996 is before Plexus.

Yes, probably a good plan. Formula's escape policy good or bad doesn't belong in this thread.

In all honesty, pics and video are a good thing. If you can show people the exact issues that you have found, thats a good thing. Its not going to add fuel to the fire, if it shows issues with Formula's construction.

Don't know about that but it came apart and water was coming in the boat in a following sea !!!!

That was a light weight race boat that hit the bottom off key west. RIP pepe. After seeing the deck joint video, I would be thinking about glass that joint together with 1708 all the way around, if the boat was going to get any abuse. Like some else said it's only attached by screws and gel coat.

Agreed Jon,it was just a side topic that I brought up I replied because I was asked.It should have been done by PM.

The rest should stay

So if you look in the side storage compartments what is it you'll be looking for? Gaps? Plexis squeezed out? Or do you have to pull the rub rail off?
Does this come down to a surface prep issue on some boats?

1998 353 fastek. Wet inside cabin also. Never investigated why. Boat had low hours on it.

Formula used Arogrip pre fastech They started using Plexus in 1997. I don't know anything about it.

Number one indicator is a loose rub rail from the center of the boat forward. If this is loose, give the hull a solid push with your hand a few inches below the loose rail. If the hull flexes in ANY you should pull the rail and look further. When they are intact the hull will not flex at this point. It is solid. Pulling the rail is pretty easy. There are screws and every 18" 1/4 20 bolt and nut. The bolt and nut are screwed through a small square plate on the inside. The speaker covers in the cabin come down with two screws and allow you access to almost all the nuts. A few are a strech but do able. When the rail is really loose as a result of a seam failure most of the 1/4 20 bolts will be sheared off. Thats when the fun starts to chase these out so the new ones can be installed in the same plate. This is not a end of the world fix and no paint work is required if you are careful.

Inside the gunnels, you will see a piece like the picture that is posted earlier, with the nut that is on the through bolt going all the way through the deck.hull and into the plate. You should not be able to see anything else, as it covers the seem between the deck/hull

What are you doing to fix it? Are you just replacing bolts? or are you re glueing it with something?

Remove all the bolts, remove all the plexus, Re apply plexus in a liberal amount, reinstall squeeze bolts and resqueeze to plexus recommended amount. When finished we had plex squeezing out of the seam inside and out. I would estimate we had 3 times the material in the seam than we took out. See the first few pages of this thread on the plex. Thanks, Dave

Dave, Back a few pages you said that there was to be a .05" layer of plexus left after you bolt the hull halfs. How did you accomplish this? Do you know if they used feeler guages or some type of spacer? I would assume that if you just tightened the bolts that you would squeeze most of it out?

Thanks
Jon

Sorry I don't know know what the word banter means, but I believe I get the general idea here.

Actually I did not intend to answer the financing part any more in this thread, and genereally speaking I am all for keep threads "clean" and stick to the subject, but since Expensive Date has made the same comment in other threads too, I wanted to check if he can substantiate, what I believe is his point of view, as opposed to fact.

I don't object to deleting all the financing stuff including my comments, as long as Expensive Date's original comment about Formula not holding their value is deleted too. If that comment is not deleted, I will object.

There seem to be many different Plexus adhesives, anybody that knows the specific product that is used for the deck bonding ?

Shouldn't you somehow bind the deck and hull together to allow for a tight seal? Not sure how you can do this.

What product did you use for the repair job ?

Maybe it is on this list: http://www.itwplexus.com/UserFiles/F...ectorGuide.pdf

I will look at the tubes. It is the same product number that Formula uses. Before we applied it to the seam we ran some tests on old fiberglass scraps we had laying around the shop. We tested it on dirty panels with no cleaning other that wipe off the dust with a rag, We sanded a panel and one we just scraped. The next day we broke them apart. All of the panels ripped to the structural mat ! It seems the plex penetrates the gel coat as advertised. It did not matter dirty or clean. I think this is why you need to leave 1/8" in the seam so it has the chemistry to work.

So am I to understand that in your opinion the failure was caused by lack of adhesive?

I would say that in areas the plex was oversqueezed to the point of only a thin amount was left, in some areas there was not enough applied. BUT.......this is only according to the info I have read about the product. I am merely a 382 owner, engineer and a dad. What do I know...The proof will be in a few years down the road if these boats have no more issues.

Some pics from Dave

Photos
 

As you can see from the seam photo there is a single bead of plex that was not compressed. The plunge cutter worked really slick to remove the old plex. The knife blade could be bent slightly to cut the material from under the deck. It flexed enough to take out the plex and not the fiberglass. The 1/2 round cutter was more aggressive on the hull side of the seam as shown on the video. We packed the joint full of plex and forced it up into the seam with a bondo paddle. When the joint was compressed with the screws it pushed out inside and out. I know for sure there are no voids.

So in the picture were the hull and deck was not bonded at the factory,did Formula still say it was driver error?
I believe this is also the cause of water in the cabin that has been asked about many times.There are probably hulls out there that have not separated but are not sealed.And this is were the water is coming in.

There are through bolts every 18" or so

Could you explain the 2 pictures please. The blury one on the left looks like it has a bead of something on it. Is this a before repair, or after repair?

The one on the right with the cutter and the wedge. How much of an overlap is there deck to hull?

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As you can see from the seam photo there is a single bead of plex that was not compressed-----

Copied from Fossil's post its my understanding it was never compressed and was before repair.

I read that. I wanted to confirm it was PRE repair, because the way he described the repair, there should be a bead sticking out then (after repair) too.

The way I read it both pictures were pre repair.Maybe Dave can post so we know for sure.

Did you redo the entire boat?