Yeah yeah yeah......well, for me it has held for about 10 hours now so far! :D Sorry to hear others are now having to deal with this, but not surprised, and glad they are fixing it before a BIG problem later.

Here are a few pics that illustrate how the hull might flex when the factory defect shows up..........not the end of the world but if not addressed..............could be bad.

Oh wait......I used my boat in the ocean. Check it out! :D :D :drink: :drink:

Great video! Boat looked like it was dialed in perfect. Good driving. Sucks to hear about your problem.

Haven't seen many videos of Formulas at speed. Yours looks great, and lands better than many of the videos of Cigarettes, Fountains, AT's, etc that I have seen. Very impressive ride.

About what speed were you running there?

Nice video Nort!

Thanks! Speed was probably 70-75. This was in 2004 before Whipples being installed.

Thanks! It was an awesome day for everyone with perfect SoCal weather.

Thanks....it did run well as it almost always has. I would really love to do a new one with the Whipples. The hull problems have been identified and eliminated. :)

Think I have this issue on our 05 353. I have the same exact headliner tearing as in the pictures in post 242. My entire cabinet , sink top, and small wall panel with outlet on the port side has moved and there are huge gaps by the mirror. I had one bolt come completely loose from the stainless rail on the starboard side mid way between the hatches. I dropped the speaker trim panel and tightened it back up. I read this entire thread and its not really clear what the fix takes to do and the product needed to get it done. Anyone have any pointers? Please post or PM me if you want to keep your information private.

Did the recommended inspection along the rub rail and good news for me, no issue! The cabin cabinet shifting seems to be a common problem not always associated with the deck issue. Thanks for all your pointers in getting the boat checked out.

That's great. Keep checking every year.

I want to again bring this forward as I am getting PM's from owners wanting more info. I'm at 300 hrs of open ocean use. No failures on repairs. The best info is on post #140/152

Thanks, Dave

Thanks, Dave!

...and yes, I joined the club :cartman:

I'm on my fourth Formula and boat on lake Mi. Two of them were new 382s. I have had no hull problems ever. I do have a Kevlar hull, but never had any problems with the fiberglass ones either. Getting kind of sick of seeing this Thread.

Maybe I'm missing the point here. That is a suspended headliner, what does that have to do with the hull and deck bonding? Maybe I should go back and reread all the post but what Im seeing there is a headliner problem, not a deck problem.

Gosh, I should have just re attached the headliner. My 05 has never had a headliner failure. Sorry about your disgust with seeing this thread. I probably get 1 or 2 PM's a month concerning this issue. I have brought it forward twice since it was first reported. All of our FIVE boats have been repaired with no further failures. When I get no more PM's regarding this issue I will no longer bring it forward and it will vanish.

Thanks for the concern for your fellow boaters

I can assure you this ain't no headliner issue! My membership is up so I can't post a pic, but my joint has separated from the windshield to the mid bow cleat. I caught it very early. My rubrail wasn't even loose, and no screws broken. But the joint has failed.

And my headliner is just fine :)

Nuf Said!
Thanks turbo

Just got confirmation of another 382 with the same issue. Convinced a buddy to dig into his even though it looked fine. Same failure as mine.

Has anybody ever heard of a Formula blowing the deck off and people being hurt ? Back in the F2 days the bond was done the same way as on all Fastechs and they seemed to have held up pretty well. I have to admit I have had to tighten my rub rail sometimes, so I through bolted it were I could ( which has nothing to do with the bond between the hull and deck ) and did the same with the windshield. We boat in some pretty ruff water here on Lake Michigan and there isn't a boat made that doesn't have things break and/or come loose, including Cigs, OL, Skaters, Nor-Techs, and every other boat made. Most definitely not trying to start a war here and do appreciate your concern for other people's safety, just think if a Formula was going to blow apart mine would have done it a long time ago. It was built in 2000, I bought it new and to this day it doesn't have so much as a stress crack in it.
Has anybody ever heard of the grid coming loose from the hull ? I believe that was the main reason for switching to Pluxus. That is just glued in with no through bolts and I have never heard of one coming apart. Just wondering.

There was a 382 that suffered a complete hull deck failure at a Chicago poker run a few years ago. There's some pics out there somewhere, I'll see if I can find them. If you have had to tighten your rub rail, and you have not pulled off the entire rail to take a look, I think you should. Both our boats could have had the rubrail screws tightened and all would appear fine. It's not until the rail is completely removed that you can judge the condition. I also have zero stress cracking, and the hull feels rock solid all the way down the side.

Being that we all boat in some snotty water, I would hate to discover a failed joint on a big water trip across the lake. It takes about 10 minutes to pull the rail and inspect, and the repair is straight forward and we'll within the scope of a good DIY.

Hell, it's winter, I don't have anything else to do anyway :evilb:

The amount of Plex used on the grid is way different than the hull deck. I put a inspection camera up the middle drain plug to check just that. I inspected all the way to the fuel tank bulkhead. It looked like gallons of plexus was used. It was oozing out everywhere. Everywhere you can see the grid even from the cabin floors it seemed ample amounts.
This is not a tough fix! No paint work.

The boat you are talking about was the one with the paint job with the flames on it. I think it was called Lil Devil or Red Devil of something. It did not blow apart. That same guy's bother had a Fountain that he cracked the hull pretty bad on also. I talked to those guys at the Nor-tech both at the Miami show and they were bragging how they beat the $hit out of there boats. There was also an MTI in that Porker Run that busted the bottom up pretty bad. It turned into a big debate about who makes a better boat, MTI or Skater. Both outstanding boats. I have a friend who runs a Cig really hard and has come in with his rub rail sticking out about 2-3 ins from his boat on each side about half way down the side of the boat. Not saying anything bad about Cig, He runs his boat hard in really ruff water. I would think that running 380s on my boat would put more stress on the hull and deck than one with 280s and again I have not had and problem. Any boat can be broken if you run it hard enough in ruff enough water. Just because the rub rail screws come a 1/4 of a turn loose doesn't not mean your boat is going to blow apart. I think one of you guys said that this happened in 2005. Do you still own your boats, if so why ? Again Im not trying to start a big debate here. I have seen a lot of post that you guys have put up and there is no doubt in my mine that you are good guys that are truly concerned about the safety of others, but I don't feel that there are many 382s out there with this problem. Just my 2 cents worth. Thank you

I think maybe you're misinterpreting this thread, and the concern. This isn't a bash thread, and it really doesn't make these boats POSs. It's just a known issue that should be payed attention to.

I know many other boats broke that weekend too.

I've been in the car game a long time, and almost every great car has a few little issues that we watch out for and fix. Doesn't make them any less of a car, nothing is perfect.

Given the high volume of failure we are seeing, this is a common problem. My point is even though the rail looks fine, the joint below may not be. I also don't see how the screws could ever come loose if the joint is 100% stable, as it should be with a proper plexus bond.

The biggest surprise to me was seeing boats with TIGHT rubrail screws and no visible signs of this failure have such significant separation in the joint.

This is my boat, perfectly tight screws and no signs of failure

[IMG]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...psed41a1a6.jpg[/IMG]

So your saying a "screw", not a bolt that has a nut on it, should never come loose. I give up.

As Turbo-man mentioned, I am also lucky enough to be joining the club. I removed a section of my rub rail, and found my deck / hull joint cracked from the windshield forward for approx. 36". I also found that my thru hull bolted connections only occur every 72" or so (not the 18" Formula advertises). My boat is a 1999 and has approx. 560 hours on it. I am glad Artie talked me into looking at mine, because my boat displayed no signs, rub rail was straight, no flex, etc.

Sure glad I don't own one of you guys boats. Good luck

Have you actually looked at yours? :cool:

How can a screw driven through super-special-never-gonna-fail adhesive in a joint that is supposedly one piece come loose? Screws come loose due to movement in a joint. The screws and nails in my house don't randomly fall out...

RT, So your saying you live on your boat?

Only when Annie throws me out of the house :evilb:

Just setting some of your facts straight on this...the 382 in question (with the flames) is named "Inferno" an is owned by a friend of mine. The deck and hull separated for a good 6 - 8 feet on the starboard side on that particular Chicago Poker Run. His brother was running a 42 Cig at the time and suffered no damage. The damage to the Fountain in question was due to the anchor bouncing around in the locker and penetrating the hull with a tine. O U Want Some NorTech broke a stringer, and a 44 MTI delaminated at the back of one sponson. Formula repaired Mike's boat and he still owns it. I think what RT and jriggs (and apparently a couple others) are saying is just that this problem DOES seem to occur with some frequency and it might not be a bad idea to check out your boat. Nobody is saying the boat sucks or questioning why they own them...

Sorry I was wrong about the name of the boat. His brother told me he at one time had a Fountain that the side cracked on. Really doesn't matter now. My boat doesn't have this issue and that's all I really care about. Sorry if I pissed anybody off. Just know of a lot of Formula's that are nice boats that don't have this problem. Hope you guys have a safe summer in 2015. Take care

This tread is starting to go no where. The screws backing out is a sign of weakness of the joint. If the bond breaks the two surfaces will move making the screw back out. If the bond breaks and the screws are still tight they more than likely sheared off/bent so they appear tight. Only real way to test is to remove the rail and insert a wedge to see if joint spreads.

Do I get a cookie for good comprehsion

Nobody is pissed on this end, all good :)

Just want to be crystal clear for any other 382 owners that may be worried about this potential issue. It's worth 10 minutes of your time to unscrew a section of rail and check the joint in the off season. It's a very easy fix, and just got a quote on the materials for under $100.00. That's my recommendation, but take it at its face value of $0.00. :ernaehrung004:

sounds like that was a hack of a poker run, also sounds like i would have stayed at the dock and drank, even if I had a 50fter

The confirmation bias you have with regards to your boat purchase is so strong that you won't even check to see if your boat may be coming apart? Smart.

I have owned my boat since it was new. It was hand built at the factory, not a production line boat. I have had the rub rail off it before and there is no where that it isn't bonded. This is why I questioned this thread in the first place. I now know there are a few that seem to have a problem. I would have noticed if there was anywhere that was missing the Plexus, or any broken through bolts. In 14 years I would have also noticed water leaking through the seem if it was coming apart. When the rub rail was put back on it was also through bolted ( the white part ). Every now and then I have tightened the screws about a 1/4 of a turn that hold the SS part of the rub rail on. This has nothing to do with the bond between the deck and the hull. I am very disappointed that some people are having a problem with this being a big Formula fan. This is my 4th new Formula and even through this one has a Kevlar hull, I never had a problem with the fiberglass ones either, which were production line boats.
Hogie Roll, thank you for pointing out that you think I'm stupid but I really think I will be ok.

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