Like Tree0Likes

Ocean Running Techniques

Reply
Old 07-26-2006, 12:19 AM
  #81
Registered
 
thisistank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Channel Islands, So. Cal.
My Boats: Making the best in the industry BETTER for over 25 years...... Lip-Ship Performance 305-933-9988
Posts: 10,675
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed Jensen
Chicken?......... no way....... I can remember going out to Anacapa Island one time and it was so sh!tty I couldn't even get up on plane without hammering so hard I thought the stringers were going to snap. It isn't so much the size of the waves in the Santa Barbara channel... it's how close they are. Try 4 foot waves that are 8 feet apart. Further south in the Santa Monica bay there can be gentle swells, round the point and start heading north and it gets nasty fast.
Thank you Reed. At least someone understands. I took a little sh!t for saying we turned around in a Tiger
thisistank is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 08:47 AM
  #82
Registered
 
BajaRunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin
My Boats: I aint got $hit
Posts: 3,622
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisistank
Thank you Reed. At least someone understands. I took a little sh!t for saying we turned around in a Tiger
You know i was going to give you a hard time for that
BajaRunner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 12:13 PM
  #83
Registered
Thread Starter
 
StillHaulin@63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: California
My Boats: 2000 Baja 232 Boss
Posts: 361
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

First of all, I greatly appreciate each of your suggestions and comments about running offshore. I cannot tell you how helpful sharing your own experiences has been in my gaining a better understanding of what I am doing at my own helm. Although I am fully aware that only seat-time will answer the "feel" questions relating to the fine points of pushing this speed envelope, I am equally convinced that understanding a concept is necessary before implementing it.

That being said, my last question relates to the relationship between tab and trim settings. Is one or the other dominate?
If you set the tabs at a comfortable angle for the run, do you use the drive trim for fine tuning, or visa versa?

I also agree that the center-of-gravvity (CG) has an immense bearing of the hulls attitude. Before I had my tabs repaired, I placed about 40-pounds of sand in my bow locker to try to eliminate the porposing on quiet waters I experienced when I first got the boat. The idea came to me when my hoist operator commented, "boy, is your Baja stern heavy!" It completely eliminated the porposing and made my trim control far more effective. After having the tabs repaired, I removed the sand and found the hull attitude remained the same with a very slight negative tab. But, removing the sand has changed the CG. I wonder how tab and trim settings relate to the CG?
StillHaulin@63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 12:55 PM
  #84
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
My Boats: not shopping
Posts: 2,430
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I wonder how tab and trim settings relate to the CG?
I would be bet it has more effect than what most people think. I have my private pilots license so kind of consider a boat and water being much the same as planes and air. In planes the number one cause of general aviation crash's is stalls. When you stuff a boat you the cause of that is very much the same as stalling a plane. In the early eighties an MD80 passenger jet went for an icy swim in the river. The cause was ice and pilot(s) not setting the trim! Water like air for a plane does lift the boat and the reason you trim is to bring either into CG.
Zudnic is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 01:08 PM
  #85
Registered
Thread Starter
 
StillHaulin@63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: California
My Boats: 2000 Baja 232 Boss
Posts: 361
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zudnic
I would be bet it has more effect than what most people think. I have my private pilots license so kind of consider a boat and water being much the same as planes and air. In planes the number one cause of general aviation crash's is stalls. When you stuff a boat you the cause of that is very much the same as stalling a plane. In the early eighties an MD80 passenger jet went for an icy swim in the river. The cause was ice and pilot(s) not setting the trim! Water like air for a plane does lift the boat and the reason you trim is to bring either into CG.
Although trim and tab settings will certainly modify the hulls attitude in the water, I doesn't seem that it would have an impact on the CG. The amount of bow lift or drop from the tabs wouldn't seem to move the CG very much. Other than adding overall weight, I wonder what's the downside of adjusting the CG with strategic weight placement?
StillHaulin@63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 01:43 PM
  #86
Geronimo36
Gold Member
 
Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Elkton, MD
My Boats: 36' Apache Warrior / 22' Apache Scout
Posts: 11,838
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Although trim and tab settings will certainly modify the hulls attitude in the water, I doesn't seem that it would have an impact on the CG. The amount of bow lift or drop from the tabs wouldn't seem to move the CG very much. Other than adding overall weight, I wonder what's the downside of adjusting the CG with strategic weight placement?
They way I think of it is the drive/tab settings manipulate the CG to a certain extent. You're changing the angle of attach wether you do it with the weight of the boat or with drives/tab.

From what I understand CG is one of the most important aspects of setting up a boat. Balance will make/break a fast boat. If the CG is off, it will ride like a turd.

If the CG is too far back the nose will be flighty, too far foward and you'll need a lot of trim to lift the bow and scrub speed. Some race boats add weights and balast tanks in the bow to change the CG on rough days.

I know someone who ran Super Cat Light and they spent many hours getting the CG right on that boat. It completely changed the way it ran in rough water and also ran its fastest with Neutral Trim and tab..
Panther is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 01:51 PM
  #87
Registered
Thread Starter
 
StillHaulin@63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: California
My Boats: 2000 Baja 232 Boss
Posts: 361
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

Which do you think would be most advantageous, using weight placement to adjust the CG, or relying on trim & tab settings to modify the hulls attitude?

Remember, I'm not referring to a race setup, simply maximizing an offshore speed comfort zone!

Last edited by [email protected]; 07-26-2006 at 01:58 PM.
StillHaulin@63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 01:57 PM
  #88
Geronimo36
Gold Member
 
Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Elkton, MD
My Boats: 36' Apache Warrior / 22' Apache Scout
Posts: 11,838
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
PANTHER
Which do you think would be most advantageous, using weight placement to adjust the CG, or relying on trim & tab settings to modify the hulls attitude?

Remember, I'm not referring to a race setup, simply maximizing an offshore speed comfort zone!
If I were building a race boat, first I would figure out what the optimal CG was. Then I could modify from there based on the conditions on race day.

If the CG is off, it's still going to effect the way the boat rides no matter what the drive/tab settings are. CG can make the boat unpredictable, slam down hard or not fly thru the air correctly etc.

Unless your boat is really light in the bow and tends to fly away on you just leave it as it is and use the trim. If not you can always throw a sand bag up in the bow on a rough day and see if it has any effect. It's a pleasure boat though, just run it!

I'm no expert though, maybe some experts can chime in here.

Last edited by Panther; 07-26-2006 at 02:05 PM.
Panther is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 02:01 PM
  #89
Registered
 
thisistank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Channel Islands, So. Cal.
My Boats: Making the best in the industry BETTER for over 25 years...... Lip-Ship Performance 305-933-9988
Posts: 10,675
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

[QUOTE=SLANDREW]Its an OPINION with most of these posts [QUOTE]

That should be OSO's motto.
thisistank is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 02:05 PM
  #90
Registered
Thread Starter
 
StillHaulin@63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: California
My Boats: 2000 Baja 232 Boss
Posts: 361
Default Re: Ocean Running Techniques

My "guess" would be that an optimum CG would remain a constant, regardless of sea conditions, and that use of trim settings would be to adjust for the conditions.

But then the question arises, how do you determine an optimum CG?

Last edited by [email protected]; 07-26-2006 at 02:07 PM.
StillHaulin@63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
LZH
General Boating Discussion
7
03-10-2008 10:03 PM
Reckless32
General Q & A
2
10-11-2006 03:57 PM
Dun Canoein
General Q & A
2
07-07-2006 02:27 PM
mondorally
General Boating Discussion
14
11-02-2005 01:06 AM
SPWilson
General Boating Discussion
25
03-06-2003 02:25 PM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.