Ocean Running Techniques
 

It seems that much of the information posted on OSO relates to achieving maximum speeds and WOT preparations. Since my boating is done offshore in the Pacific ocean in the windy Ventura & Channel Islands area, normal sea conditions seem to eliminate the WOT option and make high-speed running a bit of a science. Lets start with the assumption that a quiet day on the water is 1-2’ wind waves w 2-3’ swells, but the average day is usually 2-3’ wind waves w 3-5’ swells.

I have become quite comfortable running at 40-45mph with occaisional stints at 50-55mph on a quiet day. I have only been able to reach about 60-65mph (4500-4700rpm) within the limited 300-yard stretch protected by the breakwater. However on an average day with more difficult seas, all speeds seem to come down by 10mph. When piloting Christopher’s 272, I seem most comfortable at similar speeds although the additional length and weight provide a more secure “re-entry” when flying across wave tops. I’ve learned to enjoy a bit of aggression when running troughs (the valley between the swells) which, if the wind and current angle is right, can go for quite a long way, but have also learned to throttle-back quickly when surfing up the crests, especially after I became completely airborne on my first adventure.

That being said, I would enjoy hearing from others who run offshore about their comfort zones relating to both speed and technique when running in “quiet” and “average” seas.


BTW: 2000 Baja 232 Boss w 454 Mag MPI

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Depends on the conditions but my boat likes to run fast in snotty water better than it does in flat water. Flat water is a really boring ride although that's what my wife would prefer. :eek:

Throttling really effects the boats ride and attitude. Keeping the "momentum" up is important. I usually go hard on the throttles just before we launch, it keeps the bow level and straight, back in it just as the props (not the boat) hit the water.

My boat runs low 80's WOT but in rough water (5+ ft) I've seen mid' - upper 70's because the drives are tucked in and the tabs are down a little. My props are set up for best cruise speed and WOT but with a smaller prop it would run even better in rough water.

In a 2-3 ft. chop the boat runs it's fastest. :cool:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Panther
What boat are you running offshore?

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

he's running a 36 apache.
still haulin, to run bigger water you'll need a bigger boat.

What deadrise in your 232 baja?

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

36 Apache, T-700's.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Stormrider
23-degree deadrise ....

My thread is really not intended as a search for additional speed, but to better understand techniques in running offshore waters. It would be interesting to understand how pilots of larger boats would modify their technique if running offshore in a 23" boat.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Its going to be hard to run fast in any 23' boat in 5 foot waves.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

The goal is the keep the boat "in" the water as much as possible. Even is your speed is lower you'll be much more consistent than the dude next to you who is flying thru the air all out of shape. :eek:

Consistent and aggressive! :cool:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

I must have missed the part about him owning a 32 fountain :D

Sorry, couldnt help myself :D

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

BajaRunner
You're certainly correct on that point!

But it seems that trottle technique, wave angles and trim settings have a distinct impact in achieving a comfort zone offshore. My first couple of runs were a about 10mph below my current comfort zone, therefore I'm convinced that there is much more to learn.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Panther,
Does that mean the boat should be trimmed down a bit?
When I keep the nose down, increasing speeds seem more stable and launches have a much more comfortable landing. Yet others seems to imply that trimming up is best.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

I agree, the driver makes a big difference. Get used to your boat, the way you attack the waves (This is a big difference), your trim and tabs and you can get a better ride.

I did a sea trial on my 29' outlaw this weekend. I am used to the boat and know how to drive it. When the new owner was driving, it was like a different boat. He will get the hang of it, but its learning your boat, and sharpening your driving skills.
:cool:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

In larger seas in the LI sound I would keep the drive level and the tabs down just a bit. Try to keep the boat running level w/o much bow rise.
This would be in 3ft choppy water w/o swells.
I was out once in the Atlantic, 4-5ft swells w/ 2-3s on top coming from the rear corner.
Had the wife and 2 small children in the boat and was getting a bit beaten up running 38-40. If it was just me and a bud, I feel i could have run 50 and gotten to air out the boat a bit more, making it a more comfortable level ride.

Maybe you can see if some west coast oso bretheren to take you out or take them out on your boat and see if they can show you.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

I'd love to get together with some SoCal's sometime!

I have found that heading upwind (directly against the waves) is a "launch vehicle", and I reduce my speed about a third to a half. Downwind I worry about plowing into a trough. However, running against or with them at a 45-degree angle of attack seems to be optimum. Doe you guys ever change your course to a destination in order to achieve a better "angle of attack"?

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

"More tab" when running against the swell :D

Hey I saw/heard you runing this weeekend. boat sounded and looked great! I was whistling at you from the beach while you were chillin near the shore. Don't know if you saw me or not.

I may have a hoist for sale for you and did you look into Ventura Isl. Marina. I was over there Friday and they have docks available.

Ok, back to your thread.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

And just to let you guys replying to this thread know...Channel Islands/Ventura channel is some of the roughest waters (if not THE roughest waters in Southern California. the currents and wind wrap up between the islands and the coast and make for 4-6 footers almost every day. I've turned around in a Tiger before. Just too nasty.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Hi Tank,
Didn't hear your whistle cause I just love running with the pipes open! Rode with Chris (Baja 272 Purple/Pink) Sat/AM and took friends out Sunday on my 'lil 232. As my 5yo grandson would say .... JUST LOVIN' IT!

Why don't you join Chris and I on the water sometime.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

[QUOTE=thisistank]And just to let you guys replying to this thread know...Channel Islands/Ventura channel is some of the roughest waters (if not THE roughest waters in Southern California. the currents and wind wrap up between the islands and the coast and make for 4-6 footers almost every day. I've turned around in a Tiger before. Just too nasty.[/QUOTE]

Tank,
I cant believe you said that out loud :eek: , I thought Cig Owners have a reputation to protect. :D :D

Still Haulin,
Quote"My thread is really not intended as a search for additional speed, but to better understand techniques in running offshore waters. It would be interesting to understand how pilots of larger boats would modify their technique if running offshore in a 23" boat.""

It's easy to understand how pilots of larger boats modify their technique when running offshore......they keep buying bigger boats :evilb: :evilb:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Chicken :chick:


:D :evilb: :D

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Going larger is not an option since I am unable to trailer launch, and have my Baja 232 dry-stored and hoisted.

OK, if you guys where running offshore in a 23' Baja, at what speeds would you find your "comfort zone"? Also, how would you deal with trim, wave angles, and throttle control?

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Tank,

I was out on Saturday with the Pink and Purple Baja 272, my dad was out on Sunday with his Blue, yellow, and purple Baja 232.

BTW, I saw that Cig (the red one with funky colors) going out that day out of CI two weeks ago.

I think on SCOPE you said it was owner taking delivery.

They went out to the right, hauled a$$ to get speed, got about 1/4 mile past the break, from the beach just kept seeing the nose go up and down, with the throttle. Turned right back around. How about that for a new delivery!

Don't mess with Channel Islands. :drink:

You could really get hurt, major leagues, don't come if you don't know what your doing.. :cool:

Regarding my dad in the little boat, I figure it is like a bat with a donut. He keeps practicing on this little boat in those big waves, imagine what he could do with a TG :cool:

Chris

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

The speeds you are running in the conditions you described are plenty fast enough for your boat. Every boat is different. It sounds like you're doing a pretty good job to me.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

All kidding aside .....it really depends on the conditions at that moment. Constant adjustments are needed to reach the comfort zone, but everyone has a different zone of comfort.
I've seen some of the scope videos, learning from them would probably be your best bet. Nothing that anyone will tell you on the computer will compare to hands on experience. Ask one of them to spend the day with you, and just practice.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

I fully agree with your "hands-on" comment as I have always lectured my kids that "practice makes perfect". My intent in starting the thread is to gain insights into the "nuances" of offshore running.

Whether 23' or 36', we all watch intensly in the sea ahead for wave action, boat wakes, white caps, etc. So intense in fact, that I rarely have a chance to look at the speedo or guages. I now throttle-UP thru 1-2' boat wakes and wind chop, yet throttle-DN approaching 1-2" swells. I throttle-UP at a 45-degree angle when surfing down a larger swell, and throttle-DN when surfing up. Would it be any different piloting a 36'er?

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

I don't get into rough water very often but when I do I try and run the boat as "level" as possible. In smaller chop the tabs are up and the drive trimmed higher to get the nose up and running drier to get more speed. In the nasty stuff I run less positive trim with the drive and run the tabs slightly negative.

Too much neagtive and you'll bow steer and get thrown all over. Too much positive and you'll be launching the bow and possibly tripping and stuffing/hooking. You just have to find the "sweet spot".

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

In general yes.. Every boat is different and likes to be run differently. Over time you get a feel for what's right and it always changes based on the conditions, fuel load and # of passengers.

I know a lot of guys who just mash the sticks to the wood and trim the drives to the moon. I can spot those guys from a mile away cause they usually come up along side me and want to race, meanwhile they're up in the air all f@cked up and outa shape. :D

Don't trim down too much though, you can easily stuff the boat. :eek: Alternatively, too much positive trim and you can launch, trip and stuff... :eek:

You really need to drive it and get used to it. Have someone drive the boat who knows what they're doing so you can get a "feel" for what the boats sweet spot is. There's no such thing as 1 trim setting, I play with the trim all day long depending on what kind of chit I'm heading into.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

[QUOTE=CasinoRunner]Dude, when it's WEEEEELL over 6's with confused water, wind chop and I think I'm seeing a few chinese guys in the holes in between the swells! It all just comes down to how much you want to punish your stuff.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Refer to above :drink:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Ahhhh, I was confused for a minute and thought you WERE Chris.

Our Cig will be ready to run in two weeks. I'll meet up with you guys and run any time. By the way, I ran a 24' Outlaw in those waters for 7 years. Up to Santa Barbara and out to the islands on a regular basis. Your boat'll be fine! :drink:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Chris, I don't think it was my buddies Cig you saw. He didn't run it this weekend. This is a pic of it if you see it. I saw that boat you are talking about. It was a funky boat. Don't even know what it was.

It was a little bumpy on Sat. but looked like "Lake Pacific" on Sunday.

Did you get the info about Ventura Isl. Marina and the hoist?

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

The red cig i saw was from 3 weeks ago Saturday (week before the boat show)

stillhaulin@61 is my father. In the end, thinking gas prices (twins) and slip costs, he got cold feet and decided to get into the game smaller. He wanted a boat he did not NEED me to participate in, so by having it at the hoist in Channel Islands (original plan), he got most of what he wanted, sacraficing size, but completely capable by himself. I told him, if you go small, at least get a big engine, so he bit the bullet and found a Baja 232 with a 454 Mag in it, shipped from Texas. It will hit 70MPH GPS, so on calm days, I am jealous :D

I am getting used to Channel Islands myself. I always seem to go on the rough days, haven't had a dead calm day this year. But everytime I boat on LA/OC harbors, I think how happy I am to have the challenge of CI. I was at LB last week on a Baja 23ol, made a trip out to Catalina, dead calm, WOT the whole time from harbor to harbor. It was fun, but 33 miles each way and you want different excitment then just speed.

Part of the fun is NOT being able to go WOT, and if you do, for no more than 10 seconds, because you will get hurt if you screw up. Plus, it gives you something to do then just hit the sticks. Like you did, if I get beaten around in a little Baja for awhile in the SB channel, upgrading to a bigger boat will make it that much easier to tackle later on.

What specifically did you find different between the 24ol and the cig when boating out of CI/Ventura, I mean like on rough days, where did the "cancel the day" threshold move to?

Chris

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

i like to take rough seas at a 3/4 angle, trimmed down. lengthens out the back of the wave and time in the "Valley" to get some speed. trimmed down keeps it locked to the water. Tres goes over rough water handeling in his class. I highly reccomend it.
I usually find myself running in 3-4' "washing machine" type slop. in which case, find the path of least resistance, tabs down. bow lift is your enemy then.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

So its the angle of the dangle verses the torque of the dork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

I must say. I was very impressed with the way my Baja handled the big water. Of course it could be I was too stupid to know better. :D But even back then I rode in my friends 38 Scarab, Cafe Racer, 36 Nordic, 38 Formula and some others on a fairly reglar basis.

I just got tired of getting thrown around and beat up in the big water. I don't care what boat you're in. If you're running high speeds the little boats are going to get tossed around a lot more than something with a little more weight behind it.

So when it was time to step up. I knew I wanted a wave crusher. We started looking at Cafe Racers but ended up with the gun.

You know how nasty the water around here can get. There's small craft warnings on a bi-weekly baisis. It all just comes down to a comfort leval. Like when we turned around in the Tiger. It's not that the boat couldn't take it. It's just getting wet with water/wind coming over the bow and going down into holes you can't see any land from turns from fun boating to work. Not to mention the beating you take when slamming into the next swell. This is supposed to be a pleasure sport, not a rally race. :drink:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

It's no fun when it's like this! :eek:

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Much better for cocktails like this :drink:

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

And running hard like this :cool:

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true dat:D

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

damn bro, did you really say that? wussie

speak for yourself, i live to run in the big stuff! i wish it was like that every time i go out.

Re: Ocean Running Techniques
 

Tank
That would be great!
Although I really enjoy the stability of Christopher's 272, and can't even imagine the ride in a 30' or 35' hull, I have to admit that the challenge of keeping my little 232 under control while pushing against my personal speed "envelope" is truly a blast. Even my wife is gets excited with "Mr Bill's Wild Rides"!