what would you do? (boatme)
 

Well, Im the guy that bought Marcs boat, and its funny that you guys in here dont know the full story of the transaction that took place but you can say im a scumbag and tell him to f***** off, Everybody knows there is two sides to a story so i will tell you WHAT really happened and then, not that i care what you guys think either.

!) Marc said he aquired the marina (warf) a month before i flew in to see the boat. even told me that he kept the previous owners dad on (retired school teacher) to help out. Mike the REAl owner calls me to ask me what happened I told him and he said ill call yo back in 30min. He did and told me Marc no longer works there. Marc was upset that Mike called me and asked me what happened. wonder why??

2) I took only one test ride in the boat when i flew in, We agreed that there would be another final test ride when i pick the boat up if i buy it. He called me 8 time from my drive from florida to michigan. when i was in cincinnati he called me and said where you at buddy, i said ill be there by 4:30 or 5pm im hurrying as fast as i can because i want to go for a ride in the boat. He then called me 1hr. later and said hows it going I said the same as an hr ago. he then said well me and cheri have decided to go on to our poker run its a 2hr drive, I then said WHAT im driving all the way up here to pick a boat up and your leaveing for a poker run, he said the boats on the trailer and ready to go. I said I dont feel comfortable picking up a boat that there is no final seatrail. he assured me that the everything is fine and if i have a problem just call and he will take care of it. So he wasnt ther for the final seatrail ( would you guys pick up a boat with without a final seatrail )But i trusted marc. he owned marina and put on the smoke on the water poker runfor charity why should i not trust him.

3) Marc assured me that BEN the warfs mechanic had done all the work on the motors and ther is nothing to worry about.
Well Marc even said the out drives where updated in 03 and they havent been. thats the only name he said no numbers or anything not even reciepts showning the work.

4) i have owned powerboats before a 40ft excalibur and a couple of fountains. so Marc lied again saying i never owned a powerboat. we even talked about them.

5) would you guys allow somebody else to do your survey?? well marc had mine done for me and faxed me the survey and i said whats this?? he said i had it done for you. I didnt even get a chance to pick the surveyor, I just asked him for a list of surveyors in the area. so once again i trusted marc he called the guy set everything up and paid for it too. i never talked to the surveyor.

6)I picked the boat up reluctantly, but i was there and marc once again assurd me that if i had a problem to call him when i got back to florida. Now here is what marcs not telling you the whole truth again. I put the boat in the water on the trailer and fire the port motor up first, everthing is fine. i fire the stb motors up and there is a ticking noise, I shut the port motor down and listen to the stb motor i call marc and tell him on the phone there is a ticking noise he sounded dumb founded of course. and i said thats why i didnt want to take the boat without you there on the final seatrail he again assured me that everything is will be ok. I told him the boat motor wont go over 3000 rpms he thought a plug wire off so i said im on my way back up there Ill see you in 26 hrs he goes ooohhh no you dont have to do that, take it to your mechanic and we will go from there, Innovation did the work on the motors and just to let you know the pics marc posted if i would have been running the boat, dont you gear heads know that there would have been a block involved and much much more just not one lifter and a cam shaft. Marc lied to you guys again.

The bottom line is If marc would have been there at the time of delivery and If we would have gone out for the final seatrail it would have happend at his dock and i would have said well fix it or come down off the price, woudnt you???
When the motor was done he went over the bill with innovation and paid what he wanted to but not the labor. and i said you would have had to pay for the labor up there pay it here. He told me that there labor rate is to high there and the warfs labor rate is 65 or so an hr. and i said ok pay that and ill make up the difference he said no. He said he hads been email freinds and they are telling me to tell you to pound sand. i said your not telling them the whole story.

bottom line i know what "as is means" i didnt call marc two weeks or the a month later, he refused to be there for the final seatrail and he assured me that everything is ok to take the boat with out the final seatrail.

So after all this marc no longer works at the marina and he has gone on to new adventures whatever. Even oldschool thought he said fresh power LIE and updated drives in o3 LIE
IF you read boomers blog he even thinks marcs owns the marina beacuse he says NOW THAT YOU ARE A DEALER NOW.
and PURE Energy I agree if with you if everything was fine on the final seatrail you bet its all on me no question but its funny marc dosnt tell you guys there wasnt he was on his way to a poker run when im 3 hrs away.from comming to get if. and even Marc (boatme) says in a entry on new 43 sunsation WE TAKE OVER THE MARINA TOMORROW THINGS WILL BE CRAZY FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

So guys i dont care what your opion really is I just thought you should know the other half and would really like for you to be honest in the question??? WOULD YOU HAVE PICKED A BOAT UP WITH OUT A FINAL SEATRAIL???
WOULD YOU HAVE TURNED AROUND AND COME HOME IF MARC CALLED YOU AND SAID ME AND CHERI ARE GOING AHEAD AND TAKE OF TO THE POKER RUN??
Yes i probably should have turned around but I trusted him beacuse of the business he had and the charity work the kids on the smoke on the water poker run. so why would he try to screw me its a small town their he has a business ill trust him. well things didnt work out that way and Ill i wanted was for him to do the right thing like I really believe you guys would. I came off a little strong but im not a scumbag and i do sleep good at night. My name means everything to me ITs my business and i have a good reputaion. I have fixed things on this gunn that marc said was ok and werent.

Well I think you have heard enough again i just wanted to let you guys know the rest of the story but you guys shoulld try to hear both sides of something before you make comments of something you dont know about. just like in the real world not just in cyber because nobody can see you. I dont think you guys are ass*** or scumbags you just didnt know the whole story and know you know part of if.

You all be safe out there,

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Wow...what did i miss this weekend! :eek:

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Buying used (even new) can be tough. Sometimes you get lucky.

Did you hear the engine tick the first time you were in the boat?

How many days from first trial to picking the boat up?

Seatrial means seatrial. If you make arrangements for a second seatrial then you should have made him wait. I would have been to excited to tested the boat on lake that you picked it up at.

BTW, I saw the boat in Key West on a trailer in 03 because the drive broke.

Sorry to hear of the problems. Another day of boating.
B.O.A.T - Break Out Another Thousand.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

So,, where is the 1st thread on this problem ,, its hard to understand ,,, from just one side of the conversation!

RHC

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I have done business with fubard (chris) and became friends with him at the same time. I have known chris through this whole ordeal and what he said is true!! We can all make judgements but bottom line if I or any of you had a guy driving all the way from FLORIDA to hand me a check for over 100k Wouldn't you be waiting for him:evilb: :evilb: !!!!!!!!!! I mean come on a fellow boater hell I would probaly buy him dinner!!!!!! I have been in the industry for 15yrs and yes as a dealer for Baja, Powerquest, Fountain and oh yes the #1 boat Cigarette:D !!!!!!!!! I just wish Chris would of called me when this happened because you guessed it I would of said turn around!!!! It doesn't make sense!!!! Well we know how opinions are everyone has one, But Chris truly is a stand up guy, I also Know Marc and I'm not saying anything bad about him. But if you couldn't do the final sea trial then I think you have some liability in this matter.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=138307

Right here

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

so what was the outcome? Did you send $1000 or pay half?

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Fubard
Sorry to hear of your problems and I hope you two can work this out. I have no horse in this race but I do know of two minor things that are not entirely true in your post.
The owner of the Wharf never called you. You called in asking for the owner of the Wharf and when Mike answered you asked why Marc did not answer because he was the owner. You were informed that he was never the owner and you would need to take up any problems you had directly with Marc. The Wharf had nothing to do with this sale and Ben, the mechanic installed one fuel pump on one motor. Nothing more.
I am sorry to hear of any miscomunications or misunderstandings between you two and again good luck.
NK

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

i bought my cafe racer in Viginia in 02 and it was advertised with "less than 200 hours" with merc 420s. I seatrialed it and had a non-mechanical survey done...every thing came out fine and the motors sounded fine as well...

i got the boat home and blew the starboard motor in less than 15 minutes. Had a mechanic pull it apart and he told me that that the block was shot. It had been resleaved and was done...pulled the port motor for good measure and got the same report...so much for that "low hour" boat...

I paid 45k for the boat with a myco trailer while at the time, others were selling for 70k...so I felt I got a good deal. I also figured I would be repowering after a season of use anyway...just thought i'd get more than 15 minutes out of it...

I never went after the seller even though I felt he misrepresented the motors and becuase I still felt I got a good deal...

bottom line... buyer beware. your situation sucks, but it sounds like the boat was properly represented and there is no way the seller could have forseen a cam failure. at 400-600 hours, you are on borrowed time...

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Well i wasnt going to get in a he said she said but naughty kitty whats funny why would i ask for the owner, the receptionist said let me let you talk to the owner and i said what i thought marc was the owner?? no response on would you pick a boat up with out a final seatrail??? And marc said that ben did all the motor work .and besides how would i know bens name if it wasnt told to me?? i dont care who put a fuel pump on ??? sorry i deleted my anwers to other question like i said i wasnt going to play this. I know Marc knows and the warf knows the surveyor knows i didnt call him Marc did and they took off to a porker run and said dont worry. im bad.....and ms. kitty i have a phone record of mike calling me so .... there is no reason what so ever for me to lie in this matter i just want the truth told not one side and im a scumbag and all that **** that was written sorry....

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

So, what are you now seeking in the deal? I understand the frustration, but did the bill go over $1000? Are you just looking to vent?

Sorry to hear about the problems.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

but if he would have been there iinstead of going to a poker run sean it would have happened at his dock and i would have had the opprotunity to tell him fix it or come down off the price I understand nobody has a crystal ball in boating thats why you have final seatrails which wasnt done.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

hey boomer i dont need to vent, marc put his version on her so i read it and everybody thought i was a scumbag and yada yada yada and i didnt know how to run a boat. i was just making correction in marcs version so you guys would know the truth thats it the TRUTH...

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Would I have taken the boat without a final sea-trial ??, yes if the boat was never even started since the first sea-trial. If I went to look at a boat, sea-trialed it and made arrangements to purchase it, I wouldn't expect the owner to continue to use it, if he did, then yes a final sea-trial before handing over the check..

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I re-read the posts in the other thread and IMO you did not come off as any scumbag or anything bad. It did state that you never owned a high performance boat (which was incorrect), but other than that it was a pretty mild post. If I were in your shoes, I too would have been out to correct the problem(s).

Not sure why Marc posted the original thread. He too may have been better served by dealing with the issue 1:1. Lessons learned by all.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

No apologies to me. I can't vouch for what you were told but I wanted the record straight on these two small points, thats all. I was there when you called in and talked to Mike. Your lawyer called once after and thats it. Obviuosly Ben would care to not have his reputation marred since he did not work on the motor. Again, sorry for your problems, just making sure everyone understands it's between you and Marc. Good luck. NK

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

sorry boomer marc put it this way all good comments jsut some clarification.
1) boat was a 1998
2)boat had 600hrs 420 on motors
3)boat ran flawless at first seatrail
4)buyer and girlfriend are good people
5)had this been shut down would have been a 1000.00
6) have signed contract as is
7)guy has never owned a powerboat before. (LIED)
8)boat had survey done (buy marc not me)
9) motors are 600sc good motors
incase you didnt see the blog and i wish we could keep this one on one because its really nobodies business. but he put it out there... for allllll to see....

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

It always bothers me to hear about deal where the party's involved are not completely satisfied. I guess I might be called a square for hoping that any kind of business deal should be a win wiin situation. Best of luck to all party's.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

i agree ms kitty, its between marc and me, yes your right i had to call mike back I had no idea mike was an owner how would i have gotten his name. the receiptionist told me mikes name, cause marc was the owner.....even marc says we take the marina over tomorrow. and another guys says your a dealer know so your reputaion is on the line too... i dont make these things up. Its the truth. and the truth is overcomming what marc says in his blog. Marc cant say im lying either the pics show that a motor ws not ran till it blew up or siezed its was idleing on a trailer the same way it would have been at his dock or the warfs dock.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Interesting

I posted the original posting back in august 2006 because i was interested in other peoples opinions on how to handle this


I was under the impresion that fubar had only owned cruiser style boats If i was wrong about that i am sorry It is what i got out of the conversation from him but was not an intentional misrepresentation was what i understood

Apparently I was wrong about that

The post never was a slam on fubar I was asking others for honest insite and opinion yet he now seems to have decided to attack me

By the way
Yes i did send him a check for more than $ 1000 to cover PARTS

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

and out of that he deducts for a survey that i didnt tell him to get?? he called the guy and told him what kind of survey to do i didnt talk to the surveyor at all. and parts not labor. and you did he did know i had power boats before we talked about my fountain and i was going to look at a 47 about 15 miles away because i was more fimilar wtih them. and had a guy wanted to pick me up and fly me to detroit to look at his 42 fountain "the dealer" so he knew.....

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Lesson 101
ITS NOBODIES BUISNESS BUT WHO THE PROBLEM IS WITH!!!!! I didnt know he had posted this till resently. and i saw whateverbody was saying so i just wnated to get the whole truth out there....no what sounds good

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I don't have a horse in this race either, but know Marc very well and consider him a good friend. (My opinion may be biased but I will do my best to be Switzerland on this one.)

I'll also say that I am no stranger to boat heartache as anyone who knows me will tell you!

For the avoidance of doubt:
You bought a boat with 400-600 hours.
You bought a boat with high performance engines.

I definitely feel for you that you had problems with the motors. I don't think you'll find anyone on this board that doesn't feel for you.

We all accept a certain amount of risk when we buy used equipment especially when they are high performance boats. We do the best we can to mitigate the risks associated with such a purchase. In the end, thats why you're purchasing a boat for 100k instead of a new one for 750k.

From my recollection, Marc took you out on a sea trial for quite a while, possibly several hours. Not sure if I've ever been on a sea trial that lasted more than 15 minutes. Was there some work that needed to be done on the boat that would have required a final sea trial?

Not sure what your point of the survey is. If you weren't satisfied with the survey then you should have got your own especially when you're laying out that much money.

I've got to say that you made a bad decision when you had the boat in the water on the trailer and heard a ticking noise and you didn't stop there and continued to use it. That's was your decision. But you know what, we all make those kinds of mistakes and we learn from them. I'm sure there's a lot of people on this board that watch their temp and water pressure guages after learning a pretty painful lesson.

I have to admit that I thought the fact that Marc kicked in for the parts was a pretty "stand up" gesture. He was in no way obligated to as the boat was sold as is. I think that was a more than fair concession.

I believe that you feel that you were "wronged" but think that you need to seperate yourself from the emotion and look at the facts. When things go wrong, it is not always someone else's fault.

High Performance boats cost a lot of money to maintain and operate. You've got to pay to play and you just had to pay a little earlier than you thought.

Kind Regards,

Mike

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

thaks mike in regards to your saying marc took us out for a test ride. we went up the lake ack around and back in, then we where in nowake zones the rest and that was the longest ever. we went to his house and showed me his ex place came back to the marina and that was it we idled longer than we acually rode in it. thats ok But we agreed to a final seatrail and show me how the boat works. The boat was shut off after i had marc listen to it on the trailer, Im a little smarter than that, marc had told me that maybe they knocked of a plug wire when changeing the oil or a broke tooth off the distributor. I said i dont know im not a mechanic and im bring right back up see you in 16hrs. no no no cant be nothing that big that we cant take care of down there. He knew there was to be a final seatrail and left 3hrs or so before i got there ????? why was that. The survey it was a structural. the boat didnt sink.... thanks for your imput.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

thats why the first ride was soo long, youhave a lot of no wake zones and exspecially from the marina to marcs house a good 45min or so.. lolololol

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Fubard,
I just wanted to say that I'm sorry to hear about the problems you had with your boat and thanks for posting your side of the story. I looked at the boat in the spring of 06 and thought it was a nice clean boat. The hours on it scared me so I made a low offer. “Lucky” for me he turned it down.

I was also under the impression that he owned the marina and that he owned Manning trailer a few years ago. It seems pretty funny he couldn’t wait a couple hours for you after you drove a 1,000 miles.

What was the final bill for the repairs if you don’t mind me asking?

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

sorry for your troubles, we also bought a used boat and found that a lot of claims about the engines were false. Unfortunately it took pulling the engines to really find out what was what, which of course does not happen in a survey. In our case the former owner was not a mechanic and we think he may have had the wool pulled over his eyes or was mislead by some of his mechanics.

What I am curious about is how this final sea trial was scheduled. Marc's pretty good with organizing things, poker runs are set up pretty far in advance, so how did it happen that you arrived after he had to leave.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I would have gotten my own sea trial. (anything can be bought)

Plus if I drove hours to pick up a boat where the owner wasn't there for a sea-trail I would've at least dropped it in at the closest lake to hear the motor/feel the shifts. That way if there was a problem I could've left it right back where I got it and went home empty handed. Another thing is I wouldn't have paid for the boat unless in person after the trial. I'm still new here but those are my opinions.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Post some pics of the boat. Lets see what you are talking about.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

ms patriYachts. I think marc is a good organizer, thats why he called me 10 times on my way up there and when he new i was in cincinnati and said i would be there by 4 30 or 5 i said he called me back a hr later and asked how you doing buddy. i said the same as an hr ago he then said well me and cheri are going to take off to the poker run we are getting married and i said WHAT im not far from you and leaveing?? he said the boat is on the trailer and ready to go. i said what about the final seatrail we agreed about he said, dont worry the boat ran fine the last time you where here and if you have a problem call me dont worry. I said its been 3 weeks or so since i have been on it and i dont feel comfortable takeing it without you showing me how to operate it and show me little things you need to do. OOh chris youll be fine i said ok marc i trust you... my fault... thats how it went down i have all me cell records showming how many times he called me on the way up there.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

and thats right wnelles, he told me the same thing that he owned manning trailer too. (LIED) He had just sold it and bought the warf

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I don't see any scumbags in this deal on either side. I just wish you guys could handle the problem between yourselves.

I have bought several boats without sea trials including my current Tiger. I did have a good survey done including mechanical and knew the history of the boat. This one turned out better than expected.

Other times. I haven't been as lucky.

If you want a survey, insist on picking your own surveyor. If you sea trial and somesthing doesn't seem right, walk away.

On a used boat, it's usually your problem from about the time you hook it to the back of your truck.

On a personal level, I feel bad for both parties that a problem popped up. No one wants that. Not buyer or seller.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I personally would not trust anyone and would have walked from the deal if he was not there for an agreed final sea trial.

I bet if you said you are turning around and going back to FL, he would have made a change in his schedule. But you did not.

There is fault with both parties, you decided to do the deal without final sea trial, most of burden lies with you. Marc should have been there when you arrived to finalize deal. That is poor manners on his part.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Personally, I find it odd that the seller would leave prior to your arriving to get the boat. This isn's a $100 deal we're talking here, this is a MAJOR purchase that needs to be handled correctly. I believe I would have sai dthat if he wasn't willing to wait that he could find another buyer. He apparently made an appointment with you. Were it me, I would have expected him to keep it if he were interested in selling me a boat.

Conversely, you agreed to take it without the sea trial. Your decision completely. As far as a survey goes, you should have taken that responsibility on yourself. I would not accept a survey paid for by the seller unless I was able to have a thorough conversation with the surveor about everthing he did. Also, on boat with that many hours, I would never consider it without an engine/mech inspection.

I bought a used Superboat sightunseen from New York in 2006. I found a good surveyor and paid him to sea trial and give me a thorough report. In the end, we got a great boat. 5 weeks afetr owning, the shifter cable went out. It was a $400 repair. I figure it's the cost of having fun. The sky is blue, grass is green, and high performance engines break, many times with NO ADVANCED WARNING. If he paid $1000.00 towards repair, I'd say he went a long way to help out.

As far as him lying or not lying with regards to owning this business or that, I'm not sure what that has to do with the core problem here. In the end, you bought a boat that you liked, and knew it had a bunch of hours on it. You knew that the survey did not cover the mechanicals. It was up to you to make sure it was ok before taking delivery. I'm not trying to be harsh, but we all go into these things with our eyes wide open. Good luck with the repairs. Get them done and go enjoy the boat!

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I hear you about the no-wake time. Thats why I don't keep my boat at my house and keep it at the Wharf.

I think you might want to be careful when you start accusing someone of being a liar. Marc did own Manning for awhile and was the Manager at the Wharf. I can see how you might think that he was the owner, but feel that it was probably a conclusion on your part. Mis-communication...maybe.

Marc listened to the boat on the trailer over the cell phone? Not sure you're helping your case here.

The survey was structural. So what's the point? If you wanted something else you should have asked for it. If you didn't want it, you shouldn't have paid for it. I know I would have wanted a structural survey.

It sounds like you were out on the boat for probably 2 hours or so. Probably not more than 30 minutes at speed. Not sure how you feel Marc misrepresented the boat when you were on it with it operating for 2-3 hours.

The fact that Marc kicked in money for parts, should have demonstrated his good character, but to ask him to pay for everything is unrealistic and not in spirit of your sales agreement of "as is". I think you made out well here.

Marc could have taken the other extreme and told you to "pound sand" but instead he attempted to meet you half way. Why are you not willing to meet him half way?

I believe that you're a victim of bad luck. I could tell you stories over about 3 cases of beer about my bad luck!

Kind Regards,

Mike

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

He continues merrily on

Hey gang dont assume because he is telling you these things that they are true

This guys first post ever on here are to attack me

I didnt attack him
i asked a question months ago on this board looking for input and Fubar takes it out on me when i was trying to help him out a little bit

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Credibiity. After pappos last post, it does seem possible for a misunderstanding between Manning and warf involvements to be the case.

You have to seriously think this was an unknown condition to Marc. Would you take someone out for a couple hr sea trail on a boat that had a motor with issues? I think Marc went above the norm with the $1000 offer. Ecspecially that the boat was continued to be ran after the ticking was heard. Fubar has to accept that as his learning mistake.

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

Pappo I didnt call anybody a liar im not the only one on here that is saying that he owned manning trailer and that he owened the warf. Thats the only reason i trusted him is because of the marina and the charity he did other wise i would have handle it differently I dont care about the survey. THE POINT IS WHY DID HE LEAVE BEFORE THE FINAL SEATRAIL. he was 2 hrs from where he needed to be i was 1400 away from home trying to finish business, ITS CALLED GOOD BUSINESS I dont know what you do or care. but if you make an agreement and you tell him your leaveing 2hrs or so before i get there, do you run your business that way....

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

I am not attacking anybody, havent said a neg. thing just read what you posted(boatme) back then and just it wasnt accurate. so you got responces that wasnt correct and im just telling the truth. I just found out that you posted it What woul you do.. IT was nobodies business. so im just asking like you thats all.....

Re: what would you do? (boatme)
 

thaks for the quote marc. why did you call sooo many times on our way up there and then call me back and tell me your leaveing????? you know i was going to be there by 5pm at latest. And im not ATTACKING you thats B.S and what different does it make if its my first post. the truth is the truth weather its your 1st 2nd or 100th post like i said im just answer there question honestly and they can go back and read what you wrote in your blog on 08/16/006 if i would have seen that then i would have commented then. sorry i dont hang around on the computer much.... jsut today lolol and actually its boring..