Yo tambien...:D

Tx is my abbreviated version of T2x because Im too lazy to keep goin back to see if the 2 goes before the x or after :D


1. Regarding your point 1 .... explain to me how your point 3 is "constructive criticism" :D

2. Again, I have agreed with you on this point in the past, however, bracket racing is pretty simple (see OPA) with cats and Vs running together (also makes for great competition - see Strictly Business/Wahoo just name one)

3. So should Haggin and others quit trying? I still find their efforts as a step in the right direction (Go John Go!) Better than not tryin at all .....

4. Of course everyone wants unity ... I think they need to put a female in charge ... we are better at communication and delegation - at least some of us (ha!) :drink:

5. See OPA

6. I disagree ... kinda .. some yes ... some no ... depends on the guy

7. Again ... depends on the people

8. I have no idea who or what your talking about there .... I musta missed that thread

9. Again ... depends on the person. It can work with one person for sure but you also run the risk of a d!ck tator who tells people they cant race in his sport because he doesnt like them ... an example comes to mind on that one too :D

10. No worries ... Im having too much fun to quit cheerleading ... besides ... somebodys gotta do it :drink:

See ya at another race this summer?

WOW! Lookie who poped by!
Hello old friend! I hope all is well.
DD

I know I am gonna take some heat for this, but I have and most guys I know don't consider brackets racing. I am sure it is great for some guys, but for spectators guys that are sandbaging trying not to breakout goes against my logic of racing, meaning..... fastest and first to the line wins. To me the old open was the only class worth watching. Kinda like Nascar or IRL or F1, you don't see the wanna be classes on TV.... at least not prime TV.
Offshore has always been about macho men and big ego's, but there are way to many with little man syndrome and they are washing out the real guys who act instead of showboat.

For the most part I 100% agree with T2x ( BTW the acronym "T2x" which for those of you who haven't been around long enough was the pinocle motor in inline six technology.... and a place in racing where most all the greats in offshore came from.... as they learned skills that fat wallets and huge ego's cannot buy")...... offshore is in trouble, it needs a lot of help.

Start the flaming, I am wearing my nomex.

RT

No more popcorn.,,,,:(
T2X, I'm one who respects age, expierence and opinions of all. Keep on keeping on.
I've learned a lot about this sport by reading from yours and others expierences. :cool:

Popcorns not needed. Its conversation ... you learn by conversing. Id love to hear T (even shorter version :D ) talk about what was good back in the day ... instead of just whats wrong with today .... point me in the direction of those threads :cool:

school bus yellow... :D

Here goes.......... with civility

"1. Regarding your point 1 .... explain to me how your point 3 is "constructive criticism" "

I hope that the following is "constructive".

Television is the most important ingredient in the success of any sport, yet it has been "belittled":p because no group has had any recent success with it. (Of course maybe you could say that it went straight downhill since I stopped announcing in 2001:D ) I have pointed out that snowmobile racing and garden tractor repair have been able to crack the code on the Speed channel, why can't we? Answer, so many unpaid bills and unkept promises and schedules have blacklisted our sport. In addition the numerous classes and resulting confusion made the programs unwatchable to the normal viewer. Having spent countless hours in the recording booths for many of those shows, I can attest first hand to the hoops we had to jump through, just to narrate the later programs. I can also tell you that back in the earlier days with only 4 classes I had an easier time (and a better result) doing it live to tape (a much harder format than in studio).

"2. Again, I have agreed with you on this point in the past, however, bracket racing is pretty simple (see OPA) with cats and Vs running together (also makes for great competition - see Strictly Business/Wahoo just name one)"

Bracket racing is accepted and embraced by OPA. It is fashioned after the amateur drag racing classes for cars, and is very popular because you get to run side by side with your buddies...I guess. However, it is anything but simple. How do you explain that one boat beat somebody else on the race course, but went too fast...and lost? That is not "competition" it is brinksmanship..... and confusing to any real race fan. Please note the NHRA doesn't put these classes on TV.... instead they put Top Fuel and Funny car...where people actually race heads up.

"3. So should Haggin and others quit trying? I still find their efforts as a step in the right direction (Go John Go!) Better than not tryin at all ....."

I don't know Haggin, never met him...but he appears to have a lot of money, and he hands it out liberally. He seems like a generous guy and I appreciate his $10,000 contribution to Shore Dreams for Kids. He also chooses to sponsor various race boats with no discernable return other than happy race boat owners...... (which is very understandable ). He also tends to hand out items and money to some of racing's "hangers on" earning him many "supporters". However, his idea of live TV at race sites is not new, IPI sports did it in Key West and a couple of other sites in 87 or 88. The folks in the bars seemed to like it..... The Key West race was actually beamed live to Argentina in the early 90's.

To the point...What's the point?.... live on site TV doesn't (didn't) add any sponsor dollars, increase the audience, nor attract other media networks. The current spin that he is somehow going to join some of the most wealthy, powerful (and cunning) men in the world of boat racing (European Class One) and lay the wonders of AMF on them doesn't make a lot of sense either.... Heck, fix the U.S. scene first. Finally, you talk about "a step in the right direction"... IMHO As an admittedly obsolete observor from the sidelines, aside from great barbecues, the sport hasn't advanced a scintilla since his involvement and, in fact, has continued to shrink and divide. Not his fault certainly, but not a sterling victory either.


"4. Of course everyone wants unity ... I think they need to put a female in charge ... we are better at communication and delegation - at least some of us (ha!) "

Sadly "everyone" does not want unity. Many people want to control the game or take their football and go home. These people do, in fact, need to go home and take their turbines, diesels, "customized" classes, manipulations and petty agendas with them.


"5. See OPA"

See #2


"6. I disagree ... kinda .. some yes ... some no ... depends on the guy"

Last time I checked every major successful racing organization on earth is run by non racers......


"7. Again ... depends on the people"

A duck is a duck...and a committee is indecisive until long after the decision is obvious.

"8. I have no idea who or what your talking about there .... I musta missed that thread"

So you can't think of a soul with any of these attributes......?? Nice try young lady......

"9. Again ... depends on the person. It can work with one person for sure but you also run the risk of a d!ck tator who tells people they cant race in his sport because he doesnt like them ... an example comes to mind on that one too "

And I'll bet that that example fits #8 above.:p Look, we have found some very good leaders in years past...Gene Whipp being unquestionably the best.... and there are others. By the way even Gene...didn't race while he ran the APBA.

"10. No worries ... Im having too much fun to quit cheerleading ... besides ... somebodys gotta do it "
Cheerleaders are great eye candy....... but have little to do with the outcome of the game. Maybe you ought to try being a constructive critic....;)

See ya at another race this summer?

Maybe... NYC or Rhode Island... If we travel further than that Darren and I will go to a Champ Boat race instead...... you know...one class....no brackets.... great drivers.....:D

must be tough being only a few with a SS# that has 3 digits :evilb:

this is a T2x

What are you talking about?

Brownie has number IV

and Linder's is a scratch on a rock......:D

T2x

Stackers were cooler in my world:evilb: :evilb: , but any roundy round or drag outboard is cool too.

RT

Your wish is my command.

By the way.... in front of the stacker is a fellow named Sirois.....

T2x

to each their own. :rolleyes:

Rich what is it you do to people, that get them so excited to converse with you?

Since you have a little bonfire going here, I thought I would throw another log on to see where this goes.

Some of the HORBA guys have come up with this great idea IMHO to see if anyone would be interested in open ocean racing again.....so from that little seed, combined with the efforts of some people doing the new Aronow documentary, the following little gem has come about.

A Bahamas 500 race to be held this comng October 2007.
Only three classes..... to keep the confusion to a minimum.
Classics....HORBA kind of raceboats.
Diesels....Magnum 63 footers and the like
Modern...Bring 'em on..cats, vees, dogs, whatever ya got.

Course starts in the Government Cut in Miami and then up to Palm Beach along the coast (don't turn left) and then over to and around the Bahamas for a while ....the 500 is kilometers, not miles by the way (everybody wants to be green).

Richie Powers and Jerry Jacoby are heading up the effort. They are looking for sponsors...$$$$. They want to make it worthwhile for people to actually put bigger fuel tanks in these offshore boats. $250,000 to win.

So what have the results been so far????.....

From the boat companies that currently build offshore race boats.....nothing, nada, none, no, no and again no. One named builder won't even return the phone calls once he found out what the race was going to be like.

Will the little guy rise up and say we want this kind of racing anyway? Will a lurker on OSO step up and pull out the needed sponsor money? Will there be a collective yawn among the offshore crowd and only sportsfisherman will show up for the diesel class? Will Rich be called forward to do the TV play by play for the 3 classes.

So many questions........It is the real thing that people have talked about for years...you bring your boat, you start with everyone else and at the end of 500 Kilo's, you win or lose....just like the good ole days.

Here is an opportunity to race just like this photo completely out of sight of land so that only you and your crew actually knew what you went through.....any takers?

Charlie, I for one, sure hope this event takes place. I will make certain to be there (unfortunately only as a spectator).
Talk of a race like this comes up about 1-2 times every year, and just never comes to fruition.
I wish you all the luck in the world putting this thing together. And I agree, it would send a message of what "we" really want to see.

This has AMF written all over it................

Mr. Haggin?.........

Charlie:

My one concern is the short timetable you have made for yourself. A race like this takes a lot of coordination, especially considering you will touch two countries. The second , and more important issue, of course, is safety.... chase boats, air sea rescue, etc...and that means the Coast Guard(s).

But, count me in for anything you need or anyway that I can help. I'll gladly announce.......... or maybe race ......;)

T2x

Do you believe this thread has generated 156 responses in a day and a half?

It's like the Seinfeld show.... a thread about nothing.

:D :D :D

T2x

Nope...never met him...at least I don't think I have... but according to his posts he has (or had) a Sonic for sale..and he rigged a Cigarette..... and he has a neat old pickup truck.....

Now we have a 158 posts about nothing.....:D

Maybe we oughta call this thread something original and catchy....... of course today.... original and catchy.... means sampling somebody else's original, catchy title.......

like "Wind Tunnel"........;)

I will pack a trauma bag and a couple boards..put me in a chase boat and I will do everything I can to make sure you guys are safe and come back in one piece....

Rich I agree.......the timetable was kind of set by the movie people. I didn't think they could do the documentary as quick as they did.... and they are delivering it next week to the Cannes Film Festival....so what do I know.

They are planning on shooting the movie part next September....in Miami of course...so this will give them a lot of footage of an actual open ocean race going on, which is what they need for the movie, especially the classic boats.

Thanks, I appreciate your offer.....I really don't know how this will end up.....I told them that we would help in anyway too......I would love to see these modern racers get the experience just once, they are more than capable and they would just love it.

I'll run it with ya - in the fishin boat even.

Here is a look at the 3 classes they are proposing.

There should be a single engine class - o/b or i/o.

Here we go with the classes.

There are three classes....that's it.

They are putting up the money and effort to get movie footage....that is their whole agenda.

The racers either go with the three classes or don't go.......it isn't what I would do, but I'm not putting the money up either.

Oh ok.

I hear that Nykamp want's to run Allez Vite!

Great choice.

whilst reading this thread, is it normal to mutter to yourself things like...

..no old heads on young shoulders...10ft tall and bullet proof
..money cant buy class
...its up to the old bulls to teach the kids how to handle testosterone, there is more to being a man than a big mouth
..if they're serious, there are world wide comps they can run in
..think RL is even known down here

You're always welcome to do a "George Morales".

"Won't let me in, I'll show up and run with you anyway."

What a charachter. He'd have been in on this for sure.

Brian......

I don't see why you couldn't...or shouldn't..run a single in the "Modern"....class.

Regarding your new 28' hull...... put a single Buzzi on that thing and watch what happens against the larger multi engine hulls...with 250 KM worth of fuel on board..... (I presume one refueling??).

That little devil in 6-7 foot seas could be a real sleeper......

Remember you won't be racing at 90-110....this event will level the field speed at around 65-70...........

and the aerial photos and video would be amazing......:D :D

T2x

At least now this thread is about something........:D

312 miles sure seems like a long race. How long were the average races in the old offshore days?

I think on trip around Bimini and back would make a good race, with a test of both driver and machine.

Longest was the Bahamas 500...at 500 miles.

Miami -Nassau (and back in some instances) was also run and is the grand daddy of offshore racing.

They also ran Miami to Key West, Around Long Island (about 200 miles).... San Francisco to Long Beach..... (Do your own Math)......... and Miami- New York as a special event.

312 miles is about right....... Lauderdale-Bimini is a nice warm up.

This is about man versus Nature....... and you ain't seen anything till you've raced in the gulf stream.

T2x

Charlie..... nothing like stepping out of your boat with blood on your shirt, a dislocated joint or two, a 15 pound weight loss, and a lifetime of memories....... to make you a more "well rounded" racer.

eh?

T2x

Is the $250K going to be the total purse?
How is it split between classes?

and certainly more COLORFUL.............

like this....

Not belittling ! He Just puts a mirror in youre face ,if you dont like it ,change the situation at hand .

I do remember urinating blood after a race, but it never got on my shirt !!

Mileage......The actual Bahamas 500 as raced in the 60's was actually 539 miles long....Red Crise always added some miles to keep everyone honest.

Most of the old Open class races were 200 or so miles. The Bahamas 200 where Jacoby beat me by 30 seconds was actually 205 miles long.....if it were 200 I would have won, that's why I remember that one so well.

Listen everyone, when it comes to movie people none of us really know what is going to happen. Remember the Miami Vice movie....how much did they spend to put together all the racing scenes and all the hard work done by John Tomlinson and others....... and then they left it all on the cutting room floor.....easily a mill or two there.

When they say they want racing footage and want to put an open ocean race on, who am I to say they can't. Richie and Jerry have jumped in to help as much as they can, at least keep the thing real looking....only time will tell...I hope we can have at least one of these old races one more time.

Rich I agree on the single engine boat, how many times did Don A run that little single engine around the big twins of the day and be leading at the end....that is the difference with this type of racing....THE OCEAN..is the big factor...forget speeds...... navigation, currents, and cojones for the Gulf Stream will be the winning combination.

Some teams will rise above everything and others.......

Honestly.....I don't think they know for sure at this point....but that is thenumber I have heard several times.