Being in the business of defending many who I would say are P'sOS, I would have to say this guy would be at the top of the list. Bill Cunningham is the go to guy if you're in serious trouble in Ocean County, NJ and he is just trying to do his job. I think that the Police will put the squeeze on the driver's girlfriend, she'll turn on him or face a plethora of charges also and he'll have to cop a plea. I truly feel for the families who lost a loved one and those injured. The inevitable is that the local authorities will really put the squeeze on the performance boating community which will require all of the NJPPC's resources to keep us afloat.

Today my brother told me that he has worked with Anthony Digilio on a professional level and had only good things to say about him. I don't know what did or didn't happen during the early hours of Sunday morning, but the circumstances of this accident are unfortunate and my thoughts go out to all those involved.

Guess we all know this was coming, huh?

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...NEWS/808060401

Dave P did a lot to fend this off last time. Any tragedy on the water automatically opens up the cave where the speed limit people live :mad:

who didnt see this comin' ?

nj wasted no time to jump on the bandwagon and take advantage of this accident to try to implement speed limits now.

your local njppc club is going to be real busy fightin them off once again...

SPEED LIMIT FOR BOATS SOUGHT FOLLOWING TRAGEDY


good luck

i've always said that after sunset there should be a 25mph speed limit...theres no need to go faster then that at night...PERIOD

Its already starting, Our buddy De-Camp is shouting for speed regulations again! What makes me laugh is his remark if Speedboats want to go fast they should do it in the Ocean? If I remember a few years back didn't a big cruiser run over a 19ft fishboat in the Ocean killing people?

I feel sorry for all concerned - on both sides. If the driver of the larger boat was as nice a guy as he is described by some folks on here (heresay, whatever) then he will surely feel dreadful for the rest of his life. He was stupid - I'm sure he realises that. I guess he got scared and ran - totally the wrong thing to do of course, but ran none the less.

Prayers for the surviving folks and families/friends.

Tragic Boat Accident Turns into RENEWED CALL FOR SPEED LIMITS!

Toms River, NJ - August 6, 2008

Good Morning everyone,

As you have read my previous email regarding this weekend's tragic accident, there has been a renewed call for Speed Limits on the waters of New Jersey.

To quote from the story in the Asbury Park Press:

"State Police Sgt. Stephen Jones has said, "the preliminary evidence indicates that both boats were moving at the time of the crash," with no comment as to whether speed-ing was involved.

However, the chairman of the state Boat Regulation Commission feels that now is the time to implement speed limits on boats and boaters.

The state has no exact speed limit for boats. The State Police Boating Safety Manual and state law say vessels should be operated at safe speeds.

"I'd very much like to push it (a speed limit) through," Roger K. Brown of Brick, commission chairman and a boater, said Tuesday.

Brown said he will bring copies of news stories about the fatal accident to the other eight members of the commission. The panel next meets at 10 a.m. Sept. 10 in Margate.

"When it gets dark on the water, you lose all visibility," Brown said. "And if you're going too fast, that just compounds the situation."

Several years ago NJPPC sprearheaded the movement against Speed Limits and successfully proved that speed was not the major factor in most boating accidents and that lack of boater knowledge / education was.

I have come to know Roger Brown pretty well since then and I have attended all of the NJ Boat Regulation Commission meetings so far this year.

I think it is EXTREMELY premature to be calling for speed limits when the State Police and other investigators have no conclusion as to the facts of this accident.

I plan on placing a call to Roger Brown today and plan on meeting with him to discuss this matter further.

We even received a rediculous call from a gentleman yesterday who wanted to know what our poker run schedule was last year because his sister was injured by a wake from a speed boat. I asked the gentleman what date, time and location did it occur and for a description of the boat? He said he did not know? I then asked well if he he did not know the time and date of the accident how in the world did he think one of our Poker Run boats was the cause of the wake that cause the injury? He accused me of being defensive and told me to never call him again!

I will keep everyone updated on this matter as more information about this story continues as well as the renewed push for speed limits. As you can see, because of a tragic accident without any knowledge of the facts yet, the lynch mob yielding pitchforks is out and looking for someone to blame.

Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJ Performance Powerboat Club

I don't enjoy being "that guy" but you guys don't leave me much choice when I read post about this guy deserves to die. I think the log story is plausable. These whalers sit very low in the water, even lower with 5 full size adults. Compound that it was night, with no moon. You couldn't see 10ft in front of your face. You guys saw the damage, it looks like the boat skimmed right over the bow. That boat was probobly no more than 1ft off the water line. Has anybody ever seen a 17ft whaler like that at night???? I sure haven't but I know there out there. That formula I mentioned earlier hit a 22ft sea ray and he still never saw it even after it was hit - he wasn't even going fast and he stopped. That boat sits a good 4-5ft off the water. Those boat lights blend into the backgroung, especially on a dark night. If he hit something and turned around he wouldn't know if it was a dock light or a house or a boat. One other important factor that will obscure his view is the gauge lights. Those bright gauges at night will temporarily blind him the same way a car light does when you get passed at night. It takes your eyes a little over 1 minute to fully recover.

The sad part of it Dave, is that if the boat was doing 25 mph, they'd still call for a speed limit. If a GF boat blows up refueling, they'd still cal for a speed limit. It only takes a few aholes to make a lasting impression on the masses, and they target you forever, just like on Lake Winni.

Too bad they don't do the same thing with the Captain Boneheads tubing in between anchored boats with their bowriders and beer. Justice is a hard thing to receive, and some people are determined to always miss their mark.

I boat a lot at night. Nearly every outing, some A-hole comes roaring by (not necessarily a go fast) at an unsafe speed. Problem is, the knee jerk reaction of the authorities is to further reduce the speed limit. The perps are already breaking whatever law is in place. Lowering the speed limit only slows me down, not the A-hole.

The speed limit guys are retarded. They don't even know how fast he was going. If they really want to help save lives why not outlaw boating at night. Seems like a no brainer to me.

We'll come out of this best if everyone keeps their "civilized behavior" hat on. I know that's an unreasonable request for some folks here.

We should all take inventory of our own behavior and ask ourselves how close have we come to being part of a story like this when we decided to take a chance. Unfortunatley, sides will be taken, lines drawn in the sand, various factions will get their claws out and we'll fight another version of a battle that's been fought many, many times on these boards before. Behave yourselves and act like civilized people - Like DaveP.

Tex, you've just defined what Rule 6 is meant to prevent. If you can't see ahead of you, slow the f$ck down.

"RULE 6
SAFE SPEED

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.

In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account:

(a) By all vessels:

1. The state of visibility;
2. The traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels;
3. The manageability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;
4. At night, the presence of background light such as from shore lights or from back scatter from her own lights;
5. The state of wind, sea and current, and the proximity of navigational hazards;
6. The draft in relation to the available depth of water.

(b)Additionally, by vessels with operational radar:

1. The characteristics, efficiency and limitations of the radar equipment;
2. Any constraints imposed by the radar range scale in use;
3. The effect on radar detection of the sea state, weather and other sources of interference;
4. The possibility that small vessels, ice and other floating objects may not be detected by radar at an adequate range;
5. The number, location and movement of vessels detected by radar;
6. The more exact assessment of the visibility that may be possible when radar is used to determine the range of vessels or other objects in the vicinity. "

I used to work with the girlfriend, I hope she does the right thing. I know they are innocent before being proved guilty but the way this is being handled they are obviously just trying to protect themselves. Visability is the issue here, not speed. I can see how people will use this to further their agenda.

wtf? outlaw boating at night? good bye sunset cruises, what no more swordfishing? I love to boat at night ,that is the dumbest thing I have heard yet.

I tend to believe he was just being factitious.

Well said.

Ok..........the latest

* I received an email from someone calling us "Murderous Scum"
* Was just interviewed by Mary Ann Spoto of the Star Ledger to hear our opinion
* Was notified by her that State Senator Sarlo will be introducing a bill for a 10mph speed limit for Barnegat Bay at night
* Our friend Willie Decamp already as the Speed Limit issue at the top of the Save Barnegat Bay website again

Here we go again.........

:party-smiley-004:

Hey Dave: Take 2 as the Barnegat Bay saga goes on... You know I will be there again to help you.

how about releasing the IP or email addy, i personally dont see anything wrong with the 10mph nighttime speed limit

I have done years of boating at night in everything from the East River, to lakes, bays and the Atlantic ocean, and I have never encountered any conditions where I would not have known I hit a Boston Whaler (in anything under 90 feet in length)...let alone not seen it....... I have hit a submerged log on one occasion..... but nothing that was actually floating..and I can't say if I would have seen it during the day. The only time I have ever been truly unable to see was during the day...in a dense fog.

I have never run at anywhere near my daytime speed after dark because visability is plainly not as good...... and even when hitting the log I traveled no more than a few yards after impact before stopping and looking back....... I have used spotlights when needed...... and never drove "blind". If I couldn't see ...I'd stop...period.

While I am sure that expert witnesses will be called on to discuss everything from reflected glare from shore lights, to loss of vision from instrument lighting, to the bilge pump indicator(instantly????) popping on...... the fact is that there was (admitted) recognition that a collision occurred.... that the operator had to know that something or somebody back there was damaged or injured... and that no meaningful or effective effort was made to find out what or who.

I continue to feel that too many people are boating without enough experience, that alcohol and boating don't mix, and that our waterways are overcrowded with PWC's, wake making sportfishermen, floating condo cruisers, and ...... (gasp!) bone headed guys in go fasts who have little or no regard for anybody or anything....

That doesn't mean that the majority of us fall into that category, but some of the more hot headed, bravado laden comments on OSO frequently give me pause.The bottom line is that Dave P. and NJPPC are now left to pick up the pieces of a mess that they had NOTHING to do with!!!

Don't ask me to consider the "chances I have taken"...or apologise because some thoughtless dolt sawed a Whaler in half. IMHO the one good thing to come out of the current credit crunch is that many of the boaters whose only reason for being on the water is that their neighbor bought a boat so they had to follow suit...will, hopefully, disappear.

I have been concerned about Government control since I came on this website (and for years before that)and I am frankly, surprised that we don't see more of these kinds of tragedies on bodies of water that mix everything from sailboats, to waverunners, to kayaks, to 200 mph Turbine cats on a Sunday afternoon....let alone at 1 AM.

My condolences go out to the people injured and heartbroken by this mess...and I pray that the survivors can get some form of closure.

I also lament the people who may have rushed to summarily condemn and/or defend the guilty party(s). A lot of nonsense has been posted on both sides.

T2x

That's the trouble with being responsible, you pay regardless :mad:

I've been boating at night for many decades. Now, I wait for the moonlit nights, don't go very fast, and I'm deathly afraid of smaller boats and boats without lights on. They've made me terrified to the point of being petrified. These types of accidents make me a believer. Not to mention, my vision isn't what it once was at night.

If I get the chance, day or night, I'm always on the VHF trying to report Captain Bonehead, usually to no avail. I figure if I can get even one drink, or just an ahole tubing between boats at anchor off the lake, it was worth it.

Doing a Google search turns this up.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-03/1111454399

Have to be careful, since AOL changed their systems, they reuse screen names.

This one names names, if you can figure out whom is whom.

http://www.buildingonline.com/news/viewnews.pl?id=4027

I happen to agree with T2x....

My email to Roger Brown of the Boat Regulation Commission today:

Good afternoon Roger,

What happened Saturday night / Sunday morning was an absolute tragedy and horrific. I feel bad for all of the families involved as you never ever want to see something like that happen to anyone.

What is concerning to me is that 3 days after the accident everyone is jumping to conclusions as to what happened and already want to put laws in place to prevent another one. You were also quoted in the Asbury Park Press that Speed Limits are now necessary.

How can anyone do that without knowing any of the facts of the accident yet? The police don't even know the facts?

Was alcohol involved on either boat?
Were drugs involved on either boat?
Were there functional navigation lights on either boat?
What was the rate of speed of either boat?
Did either boat captain receive boating education as required by law?

The only thing we do know is that one person was killed and two were critically injured. How can everyone jump to conclusions when the police or prosecutors office do not fully understand what happened?

Also,

How many other accidents have there been this year on the waters of NJ that were speed related? What were the causes of those accidents?
How many other accidents have there been this year on the waters of NJ that occurred at night? What were the causes of those accidents?

I think the prudent thing to do would be to wait and see what the conclusion of the investigation is before anyone does anything. It absolutely amazes me how the lynch mobs turn out in full force before knowing the complete truth as to what happened?

I appreciated your prudent judgment 5 years ago when the facts were presented to you and the commission then and I would hope that prudent judgment would prevail again now.

Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJ Performance Powerboat Club

Thank you Dave !

Correct me if I'm wrong here. I boat allot at night, we run out thru the Highlands and out Raitan Bay and around the Hook to head offshore (not more than 16 knots). I have never encounted a NJ State Police boat at night and have always seen them tied up over at Sea Bright when we pass by. Have any of you seen the State Police at night?

Now, whether or not night time speed limits are good or bad aren't we going to have to employ more officers, buy more boats etc to enforce a law that is the result of a knee jerk reaction? Every person on here from NJ has got to be as disgusted as I am with all the government waste and high cost of living here.

I love the way these law makers come out and say ridiculous things about making laws without any consideration as to how to enforce them or what it costs!

These feel good laws do nothing but increase the burden to an already broke state.

Joe Gere

This is a copy of the email I sent to [email protected], while copying all members of the BBYRA, Sailing Clubs on Barnegat Bay as well as the Star Ledger and Asbury Park Press

Dear [email protected],

After a little Internet research of your email address I have come to find out that you appear to be a Bay Head Yacht Club member. I want to formally tell you that to send me an anonymous email with the title of it "you are scum-murderers" is highly insulting, classless and pathetic. You are a prime example of the "the lynch mob carrying the torches and pitchforks."

As for the accident this weekend, we (myself and NJ Performance Powerboat Club) were absolutely stunned and saddened by the tragedy that occurred on Sunday morning in the Metedeconk River. The gruesomeness of the accident was absolutely disturbing. We are further saddened to find out that Robert Post was a member of your yacht club and our thoughts and prayers are with his family.

Now, with that said how dare you send us an email calling us "scum-murderers?" You have no clue as to who or what we are and to make an accusation like that is downright disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. I am sure other Bay Head Yacht Club members have more class and dignity than you have demonstrated.

For the record:
1) The people in the speed boat were never members of our organization in the past or present
2) We did have a poker run that day and the poker run was over at 1:30pm. Most of our participants we at a Poker Run Dinner and Awards Ceremony at Jenkinson's North Pavilion (by car) that evening that the accident took place.
3) We have enjoyed an exemplary safety record for 11 years since we started as an organization.

As for the lynch mobs, what is concerning to me is that 3 days after the accident everyone is jumping to conclusions as to what happened?

How can anyone do that without knowing any of the facts of the accident yet? The police don't even know the facts?

Was alcohol involved on either boat?
Were drugs involved on either boat?
Were there functional navigation lights on either boat?
What was the rate of speed of either boat?
Did either boat captain receive boating education as required by law?
Was either boat already in a no wake zone and on plane?

The only thing we do know is that one person was killed and two were critically injured. How can anyone jump to conclusions when the police and prosecutors office do not fully understand what happened?

It absolutely amazes me how the lynch mobs turn out in full force before knowing the complete truth as to what happened?

In closing, we are very sorry Robert's death. I am sure he would want you to honor him in better ways than sending accusational emails that are totally baseless. We have never painted the sailing community with a broad brush and we would appreciate if you did not do the same to us.

Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJ Performance Powerboat Club
www.njppc.com
732-674-2946

(Just my observation)


After seeing the boat in person from outside of the barrack's gate, I saw very little damage to the starboard side and possibly no damage on the port.

What surprises me is how high what appears to be the Whaler's bottom paint left on the other boat. It is about 1 to 1 1/2 feet back from centerline of the bow and right on the chine area about even where the bow eye is. It looks like contact was Starboard to Starboard not a broadside hit the way the Whaler pics make it a appear to be.

Just my opinion, but I think this was closer to a bow to bow collision until one of the boats turned hard to port and the bigger boat came through the side and up over the steering console then over the transom. (Again, that is just my opinion) Perhaps if the Whaler was turned hard to port that would increase the height of its waterline on the starboard side.

Just a a guess on my part, but I think if either boat was traveling at a high rate of speed, damage to both boats would have been alot worse. I think this may have been the damage of the two boats combined speed at impact. So if each were say doing 20 mph, you may have a 40 or less mph impact.

I have full faith in the investigators that they will determine the exact scenorio of what took place.

Nowhere I have read as of yet that any alcohol was confirmed to be a factor.
That too will come out in the end of the investigation for both vessels.

Pic below is only an illustration to what I saw.

I am not posting the actual pic at his time.

Boating deaths are like any, tragic. Someone always wants to get rid of the go fast when tragedy strikes. How many people died today in their cars or smoking. I think someone dies every 12 mins. in the US in their cars and how many speed limits are there? You can't regulate common cense or stupidity but I'm sure the government will keep trying. Politicians try only to get votes in these times.

Nighttime boating restrictions proposed following fatal accident
by South Jersey New Online

Wednesday August 06, 2008, 2:39 PM
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- One New Jersey lawmaker wants to force boaters to take it slow on inland waterways by imposing new speed restrictions.

State Sen. Paul Sarlo is drafting legislation in the wake of Sunday's fatal boating accident on the Metedeconk River that killed one man and injured four others.

Sarlo says nighttime boaters should be restricted to speeds as low as 10 mph in Barnegat Bay and inland waterways. There are no speed limits on those waterways now, but boaters are required to operate their crafts safely.

Sarlo says speeding combined with floating cocktail parties and unskilled boaters are recipes for disaster.

A push to impose similar speed limits several years ago resulted in a compromise to put up buoys marked "slow speed, no wake."

To contact Senator Sarlo: [email protected]

oh boy mr ed "gumbie cat" king made a really bad move messing with you guys

i feel bad for this family who lost a dad/son. it was a sensless act, that no one should have to go through. as far as politicians are concerned, they will ruin the country, along with the tree huggers and people who have nothing better to do than bad mouth others.

Dear Senator Sarlo, [email protected]

As for the accident this weekend, we (myself and NJ Performance Powerboat Club) were absolutely stunned and saddened by the tragedy that occurred on Sunday morning in the Metedeconk River. The gruesomeness of the accident was absolutely disturbing. We are further saddened to find out that Robert Post was a member of Bay Head Yacht Club and our thoughts and prayers are with his family.

Today, I read online that you were quoted as saying "speeding combined with floating cocktail parties and unskilled boaters are recipes for disaster."

I am not sure if you are currently aware that:

1. It is already illegal to drink and drive a boat in the State of NJ
2. There should not be any unskilled boaters in NJ since it is now a state law that boaters must pass a Safe Boating Course in order to operate a powerboat in the state of NJ.

I am also concerned that the "lynch mobs" are coming out 3 days after the accident jumping to conclusions as to what happened?

How can anyone do that without knowing any of the facts of the accident yet? The police don't even know the facts yet?

Was alcohol involved on either boat?
Were drugs involved on either boat?
Were there functional navigation lights on either boat?
What was the rate of speed of either boat?
Did either boat captain receive boating education as required by law?
Was either boat already in a no wake zone and on plane?

The only thing we do know is that one person was killed and two were critically injured. How can anyone jump to conclusions when the police and prosecutors office do not fully understand what happened? Is it appropriate to propose new laws before knowing the complete truth as to what happened?

We would hope that all parties legislative and otherwise would wait for the true facts to be discovered and revealed before jumping to conclusions and proposing laws that may not be accurate, effective or enforceable.

Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJ Performance Powerboat Club
604 North End Ave
Toms River NJ 08753
732-674-2946
www.njppc.com

Email sent to Senator Sarlo expressing my dissapproval to his kneejerk reaction without benefit of fact.

Might not be a bad idea for others to do the same.

I personally have no major objection to nightime speed limits as long as that is where it stops but this is a baseless discussion without speed having been determined to be a factor in Sundays tragedy.

You beat me to it Dave! Not that I didnt think you were already on the case.

Latest story from the Star Ledger

Deadly Barnegat Bay crash fuels drive for speed limits
Posted by jappezza August 06, 2008 18:41PM

A long-debated attempt to impose speed limits on the Barnegat Bay and other waterways in New Jersey gained new life today when a state senator suggested restricting night-time boat speed to 10 mph.

The proposal by Sen. Paul Sarlo (D-Bergen) is in response to Sunday's death of 49-year-old Essex Fells man whose 17-foot Boston Whaler was hit by another boat at the mouth of the Barnegat Bay in Brick Township at 1:14 a.m. The second boat left the scene of the accident, in which which killed Robert Post and injured his four passengers, including his wife.

Investigators, however, seized the 27-foot Imperial speedboat of 29-year-old Anthony DiGilio of Brick and are examining it to determine whether it was the second vessel in the crash.

Earlier today, Post's wife, Bonnie, was released from Jersey Shore University Medical Center in Neptune, hospital spokesman Rob Cavanaugh said. The last of the hospitalized survivors, Joan Farren, 46, of Radnor, Pa., remains there in serious condition.

New Jersey State Police have not charged anyone in the incident, which is still under investigation, and have not said whether speed or alcohol was a factor. But many in the boating community have said the damage to Post's boat - a gaping chunk ripped from the starboard side - indicates the second boat was traveling at excessive speeds, particularly for a night when there was no moonlight.

"I realize efforts to impose speed limits in the past have been controversial and unsuccessful, but I believe there will be sufficient public support now," Sarlo said. "Speeding boats at night on Barnegat Bay, combined with the all-too-frequent floating cocktail parties and unskilled boaters, are recipes for disaster."

In 2003, the state Boat Regulation Commission sought to impose speed limits on portions of the bay and its tributaries but settled on increasing the number of slow-speed, no wake buoys in particular areas after getting heavy pressure from some powerboat groups. A number of recreational boaters and waterfront homeowners complained excessive speed on the bay and its tributaries damaged their boats and jeopardized their safety.

Boat Regulation Commission Chairman Roger K. Brown, who favored a speed limit, said today he welcomes the legislation.

"I think I've got a lot of public opinion on my side this time," Brown said. "Before, we were talking about noise. Now we're talking about people getting killed and injured. He will get the support of the Boat Regulation Commission."

Dave Patnaude, president of the New Jersey Performance Powerboat Club, said the legislation may be premature because the investigation is not complete.

"Everyone is jumping to conclusions, (saying) 'It was speed, it was alcohol, it was recklessness,'" he said. "Nobody clearly understands or knows why this happened. I'd hate to see something of a knee-jerk reaction happen before the facts are fully known."