more bad press

The Midnight Killer - 08/06/2008
Hardly a week goes by in the summertime that we don’t read about a fisherman, kayaker, or spooning couple being mowed down at night by a high-speed powerboat. Often the perp has been drinking.

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...px?NewsID=2802

What's the manufacturers seating capacity of the 16-foot Boston Whaler in question?

the aap blog someone asked and another answered 7.

In wake of fatal boat crash, a call to curb speeders
Sunday, August 10, 2008
BY MARYANN SPOTO
Star-Ledger Staff

Just days after an Essex Fells man was killed in a boat crash last weekend, Dave Patnaude, president of the New Jersey Performance Powerboat Club, received an anonymous e-mail calling his members "scum-murderers."

The man under investigation for possibly causing the collision that killed 49-year-old Robert Post and injured his four passengers is not a member of the Powerboat Club, and the New Jersey State Police have not charged anyone in the crash.

But the incident has stirred anger among boaters and reinvigo rated debates about how to rein in speeders on Barnegat Bay and its tributaries.

"I won't go out on weekends be cause there're too many lunatics," said Kevin Giles of Jackson, the owner of a 32-foot Parker pleasure boat with twin 250-horsepower engines. "You got other people who just don't care."

Giles keeps his boat in Canal Point Marina, a few hundred yards from where Post kept his 17-foot Boston Whaler near his condominium on the Bay Head-Point Pleasant border.

Giles didn't know Post but said the crash was the talk of the marina last week. The Boston Whaler, traveling near a strait between Her ring Island and the Brick Township shoreline at the mouth of the Me tedeconk River, was T-boned at 1:14 a.m. Sunday by a boater who never stopped.

State Police spent much of that day canvassing the area asking mariners to report any vessels with hull damage.

On Monday, Anthony DiGilio, 29, of Brick, told State Police through his attorney that he was in the area at the time of the accident and turned over to them his 27-foot Imperial speedboat, which had been in the garage of his home. The attorney, William Cunningham, said DiGilio remembers hitting something but thought it was a log.

State Police have not said whether excessive speed was involved, but the gaping hole on the starboard side of the Boston Whaler has fueled speculation the culprit boat was going too fast for conditions that night, a little more than a day off a new moon when skies are very dark.

"For that kind of a piece to be taken out of there, it had to be hit on the glance and it had to be going pretty fast," said Donald Baker, past commander of the Raritan Bay Power Squadron and a boating safety course instructor.

Virgil Chambers, executive di rector of the National Safe Boating Council, said nighttime on the water is very challenging for boaters -- even when they're moving slowly.

"On the water when it's dark, it's extremely difficult to judge distance and detect navigation lights," he said. "Somebody's out there at night. They don't see anybody. They just open it (the throttle) up. It's very difficult to see the navigation lights of another boat and sud denly you're on top of them."

Like many waterways throughout the country, neither the Barnegat Bay nor its tributaries has a speed limit. In the absence of a speed limit, boaters are taught to maintain proper lookout and a safe speed, both of which appeared to be lacking in this accident, Chambers said.

But just what constitutes safe speed is open to interpretation, according to Baker.

"That's something that's going to be argued in court by lawyers because there's no definition."

In response to the crash, state Sen. Paul Sarlo (D-Bergen) has proposed putting a 10 mph nighttime speed restriction on the bay and all other New Jersey inland waterways.

Some boaters, however, have criticized that idea as unenforceable, particularly when police already appear to be scarce on the water.

"There are not enough cops to enforce the rules," said Ernie Wagner of Point Pleasant Borough, the owner of a 31-foot Albemarle fishing boat. "I don't see any answer except people have to take it on their own to be more responsible."

That was what state officials had in mind when in 2006, New Jersey started requiring boaters to take a safety course. By next June, all those who operate boats powered by an engine will have had to complete the program. Currently, the state has issued more than 353,600 safety certificates, a large number of which were prompted by the new law, state police said.

Police departments along the bay and its tributaries have reported cutting back on their marine patrols.

Toms River tried to establish a marine unit, but budget issues kept the department with only one auxiliary officer patrolling the water, said Police Chief Michael Mastronardy.

Brick Township established a 12-person marine unit about four years ago, but a manpower shortage has forced the department to take to the waters mostly on holidays and for special events.

Mantoloking Police Chief Mark Wright said his agency reduced patrols by one day because of the price of fuel. So now the police boats are out on Saturdays and Sundays only, the heaviest boating days of the week, he said.

"The biggest thing with this whole boating situation is education," he said. "There are some people who just purchase boats and have no clue about where to operate them and how to operate them."

The cuts coincide with a drop in the number of boaters on the water. Wright, a boater, said he's noticed fewer people on the bay this season.

And state boater registration figures bear that out. By June 2006, there were 191,241 registered pleasure boats in New Jersey, according to the state Motor Vehicle Commission. That figure dropped to 184,799 the following year, and dipped again to 182,205 as of this past June.

That decrease, Mastronardy said, may make some boaters feel there is more room on the water for speed.

And that prompts other boaters to push for speed boats to be restricted to the ocean.

"I don't think (high-performance) boats belong on the bays or rivers. They're dangerous and shouldn't be out there. Period," said Louise Huber of Point Pleasant Borough, the new owner of a 14-foot rowboat. "It's like driving a race car on the Turnpike. You can't do it. It's just too dangerous."

Patnaude, the president of the New Jersey Performance Powerboat Club, said he's used to attacks from some boaters. He touts his club's safety record -- 11 years of events on the water without one accident -- as his defense.

"What happened Saturday night/Sunday morning was an absolute God-awful event. All of us in the boating community are sick over what happened," he said. "The most concerning thing to me is everyone is jumping to conclusions."

Maryann Spoto may be reached at [email protected] or (732) 462-8603.

Dave,
Can you say "fishing for money " americas greatest lottery LAWSUITS!!!!! Damn dirt bags

Dave,

Great job with all of this

It is very dishearting to read that some stereotypes dont go away even in performance boating

Keep up the great work

Wow, wish some of the Annapolis sailors were more like this. I was out with my daughter a couple weeks ago, i tell her to wave to everyone, she waves and some scum on a sailboat flicks her the finger. As much as I wanted to swing around and womp him, it only would have served the point...She still waved to everyone the rest of the day...I am proud of her...

Amazing isn't it Rob!

Last weekend I was leaving the dock, already underway and idling out... Some jackazz in a sailboat, under power, decides he's going to push off from the dock and proceeds to come straight at me, nearly spearing the side of my boat. His bow pulpit was literally 2 ft away from the side of my boat and I had to hit the throttles to get away from him.

This dude had nerve to start yelling at me when I was in the channel idling out and had the right of way.... If he was ahead of me I would have put it in reverse but he was coming from the side and would have hit my boat just past midship....

The good thing is if he hit me there were at least 30 winesses who could have told the authorities what really happened....

But would they??
Or is the loud, fast boat the problem?
You were gunning the engines (albeit to get out of the way).
Perception could be half the battle.

Just this past week an OSO member encountered a sizeable object on his radar screen while out at night. He could not see it until he was about on top it... :eek:

Amazingly he came to find it was a sail boat with no running lights while under sail. The only light he saw was a flashlight pointing at the main sail which was hardly bright enough to see either...

Another particular boater had made this comment, "You also testified that one must be your height of 6 feet 7 inches to be able to see where they are going at 30 mph in your 37 foot *********** performance boat." Which I recall was a response for the brief moment that the boat was getting on plane.
This same boater seems to forget when sailboats are keeling over and depending on the boat, the whole boat becomes a blindspot not to mention the sail area of the sails that block their vision as well.

I feel the powerboater and sail boaters have made huge strides in getting along and sharing the same waters. There are always a few (on both sides) that just don't seem to ever want that relationship to work.
At least it is evident from the emails that Dave received that the leadership of one of the sail boat organizations will not let this accident rip apart all of the hard work on both sides have done over the many years...

Afterall, this was an "ACCIDENT". A tragic one at that and unfortunately Robert Post lost his life. May God be with his family at this time...

It is very troubling to see and hear the quick rush to judgement without anyone knowing the facts first...

I had to bite my tongue when I heard accusations being made in a local supermarket the other day. Perhaps if I wasn't on the job, I may have had a few words for these two people to think about their accusations they had been tossing out loud enough for all to hear at the checkout counter.

I was so tempted to ask that employee if he had 1st hand knowledge of what he was stating and if so, the authorities would be interested in talking with him.

But I highly doubt he had any knowledge of anything and I would have end up getting in trouble at my day job for having an issue with a customer's employee.

NJ's finest are on the job and leaving no stone unturned. I am sure they will cover all of the bases and tracks for where everyone involved was 24 hours prior to this accident.

There was a jetski accident about 12:30 pm on the Navesink river today. Two women were running their jetski in Airforce Cove, lost control and hit a tree.... They were both critically injured.... I believe the app reported on this....

the people on the dock were yelling at the sailboater to stop.....:drink:

They mention the Stamford Harbor in the article...I'm in that harbor all the time. Not usually out there at night but have left there as the sun is going down...guess it wouldn't hurt to exercise a little more caution.

And that my friends says it all.

Most modern day "sailers" spend most of their cruising time under power, while simultaneously ranting about "stink pots". They have to use engines because many times there is not enough wind for them to make any headway at all without "assistance".

I believe that a sail boat while using an "auxiliary" ( read primary) engine....is at that point a de facto powerboat and subject to all of the rules of right of way that other powerboaters are subject to.

The hypocrisy here is palpable.

T2x

Absolutely

"Real Rules
Sailboat vs. Powerboat
A sailboat under sail has the right of way over a powerboat. A sailboat under power becomes a powerboat — see below.

Powerboat vs. Powerboat
Powerboats include a sailboat under power, even if the sails are still up: the boat on the starboard (right) side has the right of way.

Overtaking Boats
A boat overtaken by another boat has the right of way. The boat being overtaken should stay the course."


Overtaking includes a sailboat overtaking a slower powerboat.

I started a thread with a link to the USCG's stats from 2007 and prior. I do believe we should review the stats to become proactive to corrective actions. When flying a small plane at night, you do not notice the green/red lights, you notice the strobe first. What if an improvement like that was pushed for night boating, starting with Dave and the guys in NJ, and then pushed state to state? Also, what is a reasonable minimum plane speed for most of the boats in question? It looks like the Bay goes for about 50 miles, at 10mph that would be unreasonable so people would ignore the rule. At 25 to 30mph would it be reasonable? My BT actually planes at a lower speed than the Scorpion. Would a requirement for night vision goggles make any sense? And of course a way to improve the DUI enforcement on the water. I have boated at night many times. I have had a couple of close calls. Once a PWC with no lights, once a paddle boat with no lights, and once a cruiser on autopilot. None had anything to do with too fast or lack of attention by me.

Pretty much my experience as well. The speed issues pop up all the time on rivers, where you can indeed see some GF boats well into the trees. But most of the real danger every day occurs from the Tubers, boaters that won't deviate from their plotted course, no lights or dim lights at night, way too fast on dark nights or for the conditions in general.

I really get sick of boneheads tubing in between boats at anchor, in a friggin beach area :eek: Happens every weekend. Speed can be an issue, and is in certain circumstances. But by and large, it's the average Captain Boneheads on weekends that you have to be careful of. They've practically ruined boating. Once you've encountered a glimpse of a something just up ahead at night, slowed down, only to find out it's some jerk sitting in the middle of the lake with no lights on, that will certainly send a shiver down your legs.

I almost hit a pontoon at night, he had no lights,I saw someones cigarette glow brighter as he puffed on it ,liked to sh*t my pants.

Has there been any comments or reports released by the survivors on the Whaler yet?

any updates...

Was speedboat involved in crash?
 

"Investigators are attempting to determine if the Imperial boat struck the smaller boat."

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...NEWS/808090375

Is it possible another boat was out there that night ?

anythings possible...he's a good guy. i really hope it wasnt him

I spoke with investigators yesterday - answered some questions they have from "my perspective"

NJN News is coming down Friday and will interview me for TV report next week. TT the Asbury park Press yesterday and they are getting alot of emails that are "pro" speed limit.

So.....the war room here is getting ready with THE FACTS.

"The secret of all victory lies in the organization of the non-obvious."- Oswald Spengler

The emails are no surprise... Just looking at what's being posted on their forums gives you an idea of their mentality.

After what I witnessed this week it should be interesting supporting data for the upcoming discussion.

Dave,

I wonder if the investigators would be looking at the video footage from the State Marine Police station capturing the boats traveling through the canal and then maybe pull the camera footage from the Mantoloking Bridge say between the hours of 12:30 AM to 3:30 AM. Might be interesting to find out what other boats were possibly in the area the night of the accident. I am sure that would certainly help with a timeline as well.

The time the suspect's boat passed the Marine Police and see if the amount of time matches up for the time of the accident?

Say for an example the suspect's boat passed at 1:10 AM, it would be impossible for the suspect's boat to be in the area of the accident unless it was on plane through the canal and out onto the river...

Just a thought ... :confused:

Cameras in the area would show that !

bern i was thinking the same thing

10mph Speed Limit - I need your HELP!!!!!!!!

Toms River, NJ - August 14, 2008

YES! I NEED YOUR HELP - TODAY!

You have all seen the news stories from the last week and a half. Fortunately we have received som every fair and unbiassed press which I am very thankful for.

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Over the last 48hrs I have learned that there are ALOT of emails coming into the press and the Boat Regulation Commission that are in favor of a 10mph night time speed limit. With that said....we need to ACT AND ACT NOW!

Our Position: "Increased Funding For The State Police To Enforce Existing Laws is the answer to Safer Boating In NJ - not new laws that would not be enforced just like the existing ones."How can you help me fight this "mis-information campaign?"

SEND AN EMAIL TO THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE NOW!

Mary Ann Spoto - Star Ledger [email protected]
Margaret Bonafide - Asbury Park Press [email protected]
Roger Brown - Chairman NJ Boat Reg. Comm. [email protected]
Briana Vannozzi - NJN News
[email protected]

You can write your own letter to these people or if you wish, you can copy and paste this sample letter (see below) and just add the name it is addressed to and your name at the bottom.

Take the time to help today to we can win this fight tomorrow!!!

Thank you!
Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJ Performance Powerboat Club
Dear____________;

It was with great regret that I learned of the boating tragedy that recently took place on the Metedeconk River that resulted in a fatality. While I did not personally know any of the boaters involved, my deepest thoughts and prayers go out to all involved. It was truly a tragedy that is upsetting in many ways, not the least of which of how some people are trying to blame all power boaters in New Jersey. The State Police and the prosecutors office have not finalized their investigation at this time, yet people are making several assumptions:

Do we know if any of the drivers were not carrying a valid boat safety certification card?
Do we know if anyone was drinking that was involved?
Do we know if either boat had legal running lights on?
Do we know if the boats were on plane in a no wake zone?

If we are to follow the logic of a few, then if someone dies in a car accident at night, we should ban cars from driving at night, or reduce the speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike at night, or the Garden State Parkway at night? How many people die in car accidents at night? If a plane crashes at Newark airport in the evening, should we ban night flights or maybe ask them to land their planes a bit slower? New Jersey is one of the largest boating communities per capita in the United States and it's safety record is one of the VERY best. So how is it when there is one terrible and regrettable accident that comes to the public's attention, some people try and penalize everyone else.

New Jersey has some of the toughest safe boating laws in the country. We also have laws against driving and drinking. We have laws that require proper lights on all boats at night. We have laws that require you drive a boat at a safe speed based upon current conditions. New Jersey is doing a great job of protecting boaters through it's current laws and setting a great example to other states. So why is it that some people are convinced that we need Speed Limits on the tidal waters at night? If someone drinks and drives a boat at night, or takes drugs and drives a boat at night, or drives at any speed without running lights, or operates a boat without a proper legal certification, will a 10mph law have any impact on them; most likely not. Those that wish to break the law will not be any more careful because of a new night time speed limit law.

The real root of the problem is enforcement of current laws that already exist. Due to the budget crisis that the state of NJ is in, man power hours have been greatly reduced in the ranks of the State Police on the water. That is a fact.

Toms River, Mantoloking and Brick's Police Departments have all admitted on the record that they have had or have tried to have their own marine patrols but due to budget issues they have had to either eliminate them or cut them back significantly. That is a fact.

On a national level, according to the United States Coast Guard 2007 Accident Statistics, excessive speed is attributed to only 12% of all boating accidents and only 7% of all fatalities. That is a fact.

The State Police have already testified, on the record, that trying to measure and enforce a speed limit is extremely difficult on the water with current radar equipment. That is a fact.

So how do we make NJ's waters safer for all boaters that includes Power, Sail, Canoe, Kyack, Personal Watercraft? The answer is increased funding for the State Police to have a much greater presence on the water from Memorial Day to Labor Day. If our existing laws were enforced better, we would have safer waterways and I am sure there would be increased revenue to the state from the summonses that would be written to those who break the existing laws.

The facts prove that enforcement of the current laws will make NJ boaters safer, not an additional law that will not be enforced just as other current laws on the books are not enforced.

Sincerely,

_____________________

Just sent all of mine in Dave !

We're going to need more support than ever this time around ...

Done

Here's a letter that was published today. Guess the writer thinks the whaler would have bounced off a cabin cruiser.

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...5/1032/OPINION

On Aug. 3 a man was killed on the Metedeconk River about 1 a.m. He and some friends were in a small Boston Whaler, evidently with the appropriate lights on, cruising and watching the stars. They may have been struck by someone in one of those "go fast" speed boats commonly known as cigarette boats. The driver of the speeding boat didn't even stop — it was a hit and run.

Who is to blame? In addition to the driver of the boat, the legislators in Trenton are directly to blame. A few years ago, they had the opportunity to do something about these speed boats racing around on the inland waterways but chose to do nothing.

The marine police even escort these race boats on their way to something called poker runs where they race up and down Barnegat Bay at outrageous speeds and with much noise.

There are laws that prevent motor boats without mufflers from operating on inland waterways, which the state marine police are responsible for patroling. Do they enforce the existing muffler law? No.

The people who use these boats evidently get their kicks from running up and down in the inland rivers. If the marine police enforced the existing muffler law, it would be a step in the right direction.

The cigarette boats should only be allowed to operate in the ocean. Supposedly that's what they were built for. Do we allow Formula One and Nascar race cars to operate on our public roads? No, they are restricted to appropriate race tracks. That's as it should be with these race-type speed boats.

These boats should only be allowed to go at moderate speeds in the rivers and bays in the daylight hours on their way to and from the ocean. Maybe they should be made to launch from marinas within a few yards of the ocean.

I hope the state legislators in Trenton feel guilty about this recent incident — because they are.

Ed King

BAY HEAD

That is the same Jack Azz who sent us the email calling is "Murderous Scum" and then when I "outed him to the whole sailing community he sent an email "I'm sorry"

Here is an example of another mental midget who has no clue as to the facts. This email came this morning.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Vaeth <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 5:23 pm
Subject: speedboat accident


Your constituents are murderers. Not enough police protection, You are a joke.


Bob Vaeth

The media and legislators should be made aware of these emails so they can see the mental capacity of the individuals who are prompting this law change.

Already done! :D

That's like saying that you shouldn't be able to drive a fast car (Corvette/Viper/Lambo/Ferrari/etc) on the road....what a jack azz!!!! :angry-smiley-038:

Dave Emails sent. It always infuriates me that when things like this come up there is very little sapport from us. People just don't seem to understand that their ability to drive these boats is in serious jepordy.

e-mails sent!
Keep up the good work and let me know if I can help any!

Follow DaveP's lead folks - Keep your comments civil and your suggestions constructive. You can bet that some of the less-responsible posts made on OSO over the years are going to be brought up during the upcoming debates.

You can see for yourself where DaveP/NJPPC has made lots of progress with the local community by reaching out and understanding their point of view. We can share the waterway through courtesy and cooperation, or we can shoot ourselves in the foot by behaving as we have been stereotyped.

The problem as I see it is not so much the behavior of boaters that participate in forums like this and/or belong to various clubs or Poker Run groups. It's the mavericks that give us a bad name. I've met some of these "I can do whatever I want" cats, and have no time for them, but they are out there, driving boats like ours. (Not that this applies in this particular case.)

I support:
1: Education
2: Licensing (You've got to have something to take away if you want to get someone's attention.)
3: Enforcement where #'s 1 and 2 fail.

Just like the highways, this won't fix everything, but it's the best approach I can think of.

"Let's be careful out there...."

My first thought was to send a similiar e-mail back to this person...but I think it is within our (performance boaters) best interest to take the high road on this and to not play into some of the stereotype's that these people have of us. I would ask that everyone else do the same and continue to send constructive e-mail(s) to the appropriate people. Let them take their shots and show their ignorance, it will only help us in the long run.

-Chris