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Favorite Offshore 25ft and smaller?

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Old 09-22-2008, 11:08 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by IRONMAN View Post
24 PANTERA
24 Magnum
24 Superboat
24 Cigarette
21 Shadow
21 Challenger
21 Tuff
21 Superboat
22 Velocity
22 Donzi classic
21 Donzi
21 Sutphen
242 Formula
271 Formula
24 Progression
22 Progression
I am sure I missed a few but the above are some of my favorites
Ironman,

Some of the boats here do have deck/hull glassed together. The others we can call pleasure cruisers I believe.

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Old 09-22-2008, 11:45 AM
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Perhaps this thread should be titled "Favorite Offshore 23-25 foot hulls"...and another marked "Favorite Offshore hull 20-22 Feet"...as these are really two entirely different hull sizes and performance envelopes.

As far as Uncle Dave's posts go, perhaps a thread entitled "Favorite Offshore hull with Bling and Thingy's" would be the ticket. The truth is that aside from graphics (personal choice), construction materials ( a bit lighter and stronger) and steps( 90% hype)....very little has impacted vee hull development in the past 40 years.

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Old 09-22-2008, 12:49 PM
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Paint/ gel- is certainly a preference. some like old school- I do not. sometime "old school" is a euphamism for "I cant do it" and sometimes it is a choice. (I personally prefer gelcoat to paint but thats me)

TX-2 -(thanks for the slam but youre off base)

So if a step is 90% hype what would you pay for 10
% more speed? How much more motor do you have to buy- and if you could get it why not? Me for my money ill take every subtle advances (4% here 3% there however many all add up) I can get as they all ad up to a superior experience.

Vacuum bagging is a new technology that makes the boat stronger (this isnt debated) and lighter (neither is this) therefore a boat using thi stech is better than the exact same hull not using this technique. Resin infusion (outerlimits) is yet another step ahead in this technology.

I dont call quality componentry (livorsi type throttle with separate shifter vs combined plastic el cheapo) unit "bling" I call one quality and one cheap.

looks and "bling" are another thing entirely.

IF only 10% has changed in 20 years why not take advantage of it? Sounds like sour grapes on your end.

Uncle Dave

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Old 09-22-2008, 01:09 PM
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I dont get the whole "nostalgia thing" If you are spending 85K wouldn't you prefer to have a custom scheme done?- really (come on now….)? Does the single solid color, or 2-tone combo really set you apart at the beach form other boats of the same length?
If it were my $85K, yes, I would rather have the solid color or two-tone scheme.

Don't get me wrong, there are lots of graphics out there that I think look great. There are probably just as many that I think look terrible. (Flames, for example, never look right on a boat to me.)

Some of my favorite boats over the last few years have been the Cigs with solid color hullsides.
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:17 PM
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Vacuum bagging will use less resin so it will be lighter but I am betting the strength is comparable. I would say that vacuum bagging offers the same strength with less weight. Yes, that is a good thing but is it 100% necessary? I would say that is subjective as to what you want out of your boat.

I think we all agree steps are definitely faster but it does come with different handing characteristics. Not saying good or bad just different.

As far as old school looks I will take that all day. But again that is personal preference. These loud multi-colored boats look nasty IMO. And molded swim platforms don't do it for me at all. I'll take solid colors and a flat transom.

There have been some great examples listed on this thread!
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:33 PM
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Top Bananna - thanks for the great info. Id like to discuss in more detail
You seem well connected and anybody really boating like yourself has good cred with me, and I LOVE the webber stacks in your avatar.

It seems as though you are an actual Manufacturer so I'm going to discuss with you in a more frank fashion. You are here to sell and Ive previously been mailing with buyers or end users. This should up the relative level of play in this thread (and because end users are too attached to their purchases to put the emotion aside.)
I have different preferences than you and I'm pointing some real differences between you and other (not necessarily my brand but it would be included) competitors products.

Ok so you guys make a solid boat and have a rich history & good names, that's important for us investors. You'll customize it to a good extent, and apparently it can handle hot power in a stable fashion, but there really aren't "innovations" per se in this product at least that I can see. What has Bananna done lately in terms of awards, offshore wins in any series OSS Popra etc? Not debating the history just curious whats new.

It doesn't look to me like there has been any progress on the hull or the level of componentry I see in these picts. From what I can tell you're using standard laminations schemes (but with current resins) and running non-stepped hulls designed 20 years ago.
The show boats level of componentry just is not state of the art or trick but maybe thats why its 10K off.

Still arent sure - do you vac bag?

I dont get the whole "nostalgia thing" If you are spending 85K wouldn't you prefer to have a custom scheme done?- really (come on now….)? Does the single solid color, or 2-tone combo really set you apart at the beach form other boats of the same length? You refer to “having it done but that implies you dont do it in house but hire piece workers to do it maybe maybe not.

Im not saying you guys dont make a good/even great boat-nor am I slamming your personal sense of style because you seem hip. Id love to go boating with you can consider this mail an invite for you to actually go with me, but I wouldn’t purchase this boat from what I’ve seen in your picts because there are others that cover the basics of quality solid construction just as well and in of course my own opinion have evolved further from a design and build standpoint.

Im not remotely dissing you, your boats, Don Aronow or his accomplishments but debating the level of technology and style that is currently available to a buyer in the 24ft class.

Respectfully,

Uncle Dave

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Top Bananna - thanks for the great info. Id like to discuss in more detail
You seem well connected and anybody really boating like yourself has good cred with me, and I LOVE the webber stacks in your avatar.


Thanks Dave, but the stacks are actually for a Kinsler Fuel Injection system, Webber’s are carburetors, but I appreciate your love of the old school look.

It seems as though you are an actual Manufacturer

…….. Well, yes and no. We are a manufacturer, but think of ourselves more in the line of a custom shop, similar to what Ruf would be for Porsche or Langlitz for motorcycle jackets. They are all Porsches and motorcycle jackets….BUT to each customer they are thought of as only their own.

We are a small company in numbers of annual units that we produce, but we never build the same boat twice, each is a product of the customer's imagination and our ability to bring their dreams to life for them. We have all new tooling (molds) and these new molds have the ability to have a boat vacuum bagged if the customer wants it. We have no overhead to speak of and no debt.

The people that do our layup are utilizing all the latest technology and have themselves won the Powerboat Magazine Quality Builder awards several times. The engines come from either Mercury or any of the better known custom shops out there. The outboards come from all the brands of outboard manufacturers once again, whatever the customer wants

Our goal is to make a product that is very high in quality and very unique to the market. We have no dealer network, but will work with any dealer who wants to build a custom boat for their customer. If the customer likes this classic look and wants whatever they want, we can do it. A 28 footer with a #6 and 1075 HP or twin 200 HP outboards on a bracket, just tell us and we will get it done. We are not trying to fit everyone into a size 40 overcoat

Dave, think along the lines of a real Shelby 427 Cobra or an early 911 Turbo. Those cars have a quality and beauty all of themselves. Strictly speaking, they have no new innovations or can claim no recent racing awards, yet they command an appreciation of their timeless designs.

Our typical buyer is someone who gets the “nostalgia” thing, but also wants to have the latest in layup and engine technology. They are people who have now or have had, the most exotic boats out there, but now want something simple, easy to run and dependable but still have that head turning appeal.

As far as the paint……if someone really wants to splash one of these designs with a modern paint job, it is their boat and they can have it any way they want. Not sure how it would look, think of a sweet 16 Donzi with a splash paint job.

If you are manufacturer today, you have to realize that EVERYONE builds a great boat, we are simply trying to offer our little niche to those that are interested.

It wasn’t clear from your postings…..are you a manufacturer? If so, what is it that you make?
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
Paint/ gel- is certainly a preference. some like old school- I do not. sometime "old school" is a euphamism for "I cant do it" and sometimes it is a choice. (I personally prefer gelcoat to paint but thats me)

TX-2 -(thanks for the slam but youre off base)
Your welcome......Which base am I off, First, second, third or home plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
So if a step is 90% hype what would you pay for 10
% more speed?
It's not 10 % more speed...it's 10% of the "claimed" speed "increases", so I wouldn't pay much. When You factor in the loss of handling....I'll pass entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
Vacuum bagging is a new technology that makes the boat stronger (this isnt debated) and lighter (neither is this) therefore a boat using thi stech is better than the exact same hull not using this technique. Resin infusion (outerlimits) is yet another step ahead in this technology.
You have a point, certainly, but when you compare say a balsa cored hull to a lighter layup....you also lose much of the solidity...... strength may be equal and the boat may be lighter, but in some applications one gets the feeling of riding in a clorox bottle......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
I dont call quality componentry (livorsi type throttle with separate shifter vs combined plastic el cheapo) unit "bling" I call one quality and one cheap.
What is "Livorsi type"? Isn't that more like "Latham style".... or "Marine Machine Wannabe"? There is nothing "new" about replacing plastic crap with high quality hardware...That's been going on for years...... and the Latham standard was set back in the 80"s
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Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
looks and "bling" are another thing entirely.
Not in California.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post

IF only 10% has changed in 20 years why not take advantage of it? Sounds like sour grapes on your end.

Uncle Dave
What is it exactly, you're selling again?

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Old 09-22-2008, 01:44 PM
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As far as old school looks I will take that all day. But again that is personal preference. These loud multi-colored boats look nasty IMO. And molded swim platforms don't do it for me at all. I'll take solid colors and a flat transom.

There have been some great examples listed on this thread!
x2
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:49 PM
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Uncle Dave,
It's a matter of "choice".... no more...no less......as for the shifter it's an option....
how much is a Laveycraft 24 nuera ?? 70-80k
I'll take a 20 year old Pantera 24 (20k) anyday and put it up against a new 24 nuera and let's see who will hang offshore.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x View Post
Perhaps this thread should be titled "Favorite Offshore 23-25 foot hulls"...and another marked "Favorite Offshore hull 20-22 Feet"...as these are really two entirely different hull sizes and performance envelopes.

As far as Uncle Dave's posts go, perhaps a thread entitled "Favorite Offshore hull with Bling and Thingy's" would be the ticket. The truth is that aside from graphics (personal choice), construction materials ( a bit lighter and stronger) and steps( 90% hype)....very little has impacted vee hull development in the past 40 years.

T2x
Thank You as always
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