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Has the industry ever been hit this hard?

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Old 07-04-2009, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
Some time soon, people and the press will realize this guy is an empty suit, pathological liar, and then turn on him. It is only a matter of time. He reminds me of so many con men sales guys I have met. You know the type. The only sale he ever really closes is the one convincing you to hire him at a huge base salary rather than pure commission because of his talents, leads, contacts and abilities. He impresses you with all that plus his smooth talking.

Then he gets on the job and wows you with all the prospects he already has working. Lunches, dinners, trips to meet with the prospects, and beautiful proposals. Weeks and months go by with nothing closed, but he is oh so close to making it happen. Then, just when you are about to get frustrated, along comes an even bigger and better hot lead. So, in the off chance that is the real deal, you give him more time. Meanwhile, the first few hot prospects slowly fade from the conversation.

This cycle goes on for quite some time until you finally realize that this guy is a complete BS artist who kept all the balls in the air to keep you interested, in anticipatation of the great deal just around the corner. You have been had, conned, so you fire the guy and move on, but only after you wasted time, money and resources. Obama is just such a snake oil salesman. Hopefully, America wakes up and elects a Congress that will check this guy as it did in 1994. Hopefully, before it is too late and the damage becomes irreparable.

Have faith. Happy Birthday America!!! We will get through this, as always, and be better than ever.
Amen to that!!
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Old 07-04-2009, 11:14 AM
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With all due respect, and whether or not you think Obama is a savior or the anti-Christ, he was handed this mess we now call our economy. It's easy to forget that the first big "bail out," to the tune of $80 billion if memory serves, was AIG. Under the watch of President Bush.

To state or even imply that Obama is responsible for the current state of our economy simply ignores the facts. And that's not even taking into account the effects that China's and Europe's economic woes have had on our economy.

And before Obama haters savage me, please keep in mind that I'm not saying he has the solutions. (I'm not sure any one person can.) I am saying, however, and the facts are crystal clear, that this mess started long anyone even knew his name.

I am also not blaming Republicans. The sub-prime debacle has Democratic fingerprints (Frank and Dodd, for those who care) all over it.

To the original question at the top of this thread: No. These are the toughest times the marine industry has ever faced, and the industry will look a lot different when it emerges.
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Old 07-04-2009, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
Some time soon, people and the press will realize this guy is an empty suit, pathological liar, and then turn on him. It is only a matter of time. He reminds me of so many con men sales guys I have met. You know the type. The only sale he ever really closes is the one convincing you to hire him at a huge base salary rather than pure commission because of his talents, leads, contacts and abilities. He impresses you with all that plus his smooth talking.

Then he gets on the job and wows you with all the prospects he already has working. Lunches, dinners, trips to meet with the prospects, and beautiful proposals. Weeks and months go by with nothing closed, but he is oh so close to making it happen. Then, just when you are about to get frustrated, along comes an even bigger and better hot lead. So, in the off chance that is the real deal, you give him more opportunity. Meanwhile, the first few hot prospects slowly fade from the conversation.

This cycle goes on for quite some time until you finally realize that this guy is a complete BS artist who kept all the balls in the air to keep you interested, in anticipatation of the great deal just around the corner. You have been had, conned, so you fire the guy and move on, but only after you wasted time, money and resources. Obama is just such a snake oil salesman. Hopefully, America wakes up and elects a Congress that will check this guy as it did in 1994. Hopefully, before it is too late and the damage becomes irreparable.

Have faith. Happy Birthday America!!! We will get through this, as always, and be better than ever.
Nice post thanks.
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Old 07-04-2009, 11:47 AM
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some questions, did clinton's administration allow the deregulation of fannie mae and freddie mac? and didn't bush express concern many times over fannie mae and freddie mac, before things got really bad with them?
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:07 PM
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Interesting thread....IMHO the issue is GLOBALIZATION.

Most nations of the world are competing with each other for sales to the U.S. Meanwhile,many of those same nations are jealous of our life style and/or demand finacial support. Our trade deficit is not improving as tx2 can verify by frieght movement.
EXACTLY.

"Globablization" is simply another word for equilibrium. As the world globalizes the best standards of living (us) HAVE TO decrease as the lower standards increase. As we continue to clamor for cheap foreign products, we just lose work here and increase their standards of living. Eventually the low cost sources all get used up, and we all are on the same playing field. You can't have an entire economy out of service industry jobs and "financial services", which is where we're headed.

The country's that behave in "protectionist" manners (SW Asia) are the most likely to prosper I believe.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:54 PM
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I don't think that anyone would deny that Obama inherited a bad economy. What upsets lots of people is how he reacted to it. The need for strong, immediate fiscal Stimulus was obvious. He ignored a payroll tax holiday and incentives to buy existing homes and new cars as well as tax cuts to small businesses. Instead,he chose to borrow a trillion dollars,rush a thousand page bill through that no one read that is nothing more than a ten year spending bill that pays off the special interest groups and Unions that elected him and does nothing to stimulate the economy. Only $50 Billion of that Stimulus money has been spent. Our GDP is $14 Trillion/year. Does anyone think that $50 Billion will stimulate a $14 Trillion economy? Many object to Government takeover of Banks,car companies,the health care industry,the Energy sector,etc. His own party in the Senate says these long term deficits and debt are unsustainable. Most of us want him to succeed but object to HOW he's doing it! Some good points were made regarding trucking,overseas shipment and BOT (Balance of Trade,etc). While many of us watch the Dow every day, there is a Transportation index with the DJIA that tracks rail and trucking activity. When that starts climbing,we're coming out of the hole. Trade coming in via shipping is tracked by the Baltic Dry Index. I was fortunate enough to observe first-hand over the last 35 years the growth of Globalization in Mexico,South America,Europe and Japan. The growth and expansion of the Internet together with a global explosion of young,well educated workers has definetly raised the bar. Unfortunately a long,slow Recovery does not bode well for the Boating Industry. For what it's worth....
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:09 PM
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The Zippy is a complete Idiot among Many other things!! We have the highest Corporate Tax in the world right UP there with Japan also plenty of Domestic Energy, which we cannot use for some reason. The slide started with the Rats gaining the house in 06 then tanked the economy when McCain had an 8 Point lead, the rest is history. Duh Lets see: Low Corporate taxes and next to nothing Capitol gains then add cheap energy! Bingo the American Magic starts ..Wealth is created from the industrial side NOT from Pretend Harvard Affirmative Action Sue whitey Racist ACORN Lawyers.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:02 PM
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I also hear things are picking up down here in South Florida.
Lube,

In Tampa/St Pete, the hardest part of selling a bank-owned repo home on my part(as a realtor) is getting my contract in the first day or 2 or there long gone.

Case in point: I have to go to Seminole to show and get a contract on Sunday, as there a 9 offers coming in and they want the highest and best offer by noon on Monday.

Really wanted tomorrow off!

House was listed on Friday (yesterday). No BS.

Anyone who tells you differently isn't down here doing it, ask gcoffshore in Lauderdale.

The crap that won't sell is priced at 2007 prices.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:07 PM
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Lmarth,

I think your assessment of why some people are upset is very accurate. Whether or not I happen to be one of them ... who cares, right? My point, and you seem to support it, is that our current economic state was a long time coming and is the product of many contributing factors. Remembering that is important as we move ahead.

In an absolutely pure capitalist system, the government would do ... absolutely nothing. The market would eventually correct itself, the "strong" would survive and the "weak" would perish. That's the essence of the free market. There is no "right" to profitability or sustainability. There is only a right to try. As we all know, you've got to earn it. Every day.

Like most of you, I struggle with the idea of the government doing anything to correct the situation, because government's track record isn't that strong when it comes to spending our money (and it is our money) wisely.

But I also think that this situation is so dire that some kind of government response is required. (And again, whether or not I think Obama's is the correct one isn't the point.) I guarantee that if you haven't been laid off or taken a pay cut, you know someone who has. Things are bad.

Someone very smart said to me recently that we aren't going to have to work harder than our parents to recover. We're going to have to work harder than our grandparents.

Last, while I don't agree with Mike A's take on Obama, though I do support his right to voice his opinion, I do agree with his take on this country. We will survive and recover. We are strong.

Happy July 4, all.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:15 PM
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The country's that behave in "protectionist" manners (SW Asia) are the most likely to prosper I believe.

How about the country that allows business to reap the reward for building and selling the best product (Read Reasonable tax rates) while keeping unions from pillaging the spoils at every turn will be those countries that prosper. (Think Hong Kong 10 years ago)

I would use Japan or Germany as an example but they just hammer the individual with ungodly tax rates to pay for their welfare states.

Carcrash: I am curious, have you ever met a payroll?
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