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Has the industry ever been hit this hard?

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Old 07-04-2009, 03:16 PM
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How about the country that allows business to reap the reward for building and selling the best product (Read Reasonable tax rates) while keeping unions from pillaging the spoils at every turn will be those countries that prosper. (Think Hong Kong 10 years ago)

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Oh Yeah, Add in government spending equal to revenues and spending it on infrastructure rather than welfare.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:04 PM
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How about the country that allows business to reap the reward for building and selling the best product (Read Reasonable tax rates) while keeping unions from pillaging the spoils at every turn will be those countries that prosper. (Think Hong Kong 10 years ago)

I would use Japan or Germany as an example but they just hammer the individual with ungodly tax rates to pay for their welfare states.

Carcrash: I am curious, have you ever met a payroll?
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That would work, but when you are competing "globally" and everyone has different access to different markets, it isn't feasible. Just because we're open to all for the "best to succeed" doesn't mean anyone else is. Therefore it is a prisoner's dillema game, and we choose to be open hoping everyone else will follow, but they aren't.
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:24 PM
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I am thinking early '80 ... right after the 2nd oil embargo ('78). Drove oil up (not was far as now...but think dollar for dollar) oil like crazy and drove petroleum products sky high. The boating industry starting cheapening boats...less fiberglass more marine wood

But it is bad now!!!!!
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:34 PM
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:53 PM
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Nice one!!

yup, that what you accomplished!

Obiden, you can keep the change; No thanks...
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:14 AM
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Wow Car Crash.

The mess we are in right now is not simply Bush's fault - an inconvenient truth, I know, but true nonetheless. Indeed, there is plenty of blame to go around. Rich's analysis of the situation is pretty spot on in my opinion, at least with respect to the media bias and liberal attacks on Bush swaying public opinion. People were convinced by relentless negative attacks that all things Bush needed to go, replaced by "Change We Can Believe In".

So what did we get: a 47 year old guy with zero experience at anything, reshaping everything America has ever stood for, and flat out lying to us every step of the way. People compare this guy to Carter? Not even close. Carter was at least a governor and submarine commander. This guy was a state senator. Never earned an honest living doing honest work. Never met a payroll, never created a business plan. Barely even spent time actually practicing law. He was not qualified to serve as an executive in a Fortune 500 company, yet we elected him president?

And what has he done so far? Reagan won the 1980 election when he posed this question in his second debate with Carter: Are you better off than you were four years ago? Today's equivalent question is this: Based on everything you see this president doing today, do you honeestly think we will be better off in four years?

The answer is "NO WAY", either economically or in terms of our foreign policy. America will never come out of this current funk, nor will it remain as the richest most powerful country on earth when:

1. We strangle our people with higher and more taxes;
2. We take the side of morally corrupt regimes rather than standing up for what is morally right.
3. We unilaterally disarm ourselves while allowing psychotic regimes to develop nuclear weapons and threaten our friends.

If we as Americans do not wake up fast you can forget about the boat industry. We will have much bigger problems to worry about.
You are spot on with this...I business associate of mine (who owns about 150 big-box retail stores) and I were talking a couple of weeks ago, and he wasn't joking that based on previous work and managerial experience, he wouldn't even get a return call for an interview to be one of John's store managers...lol

I agree...Nobama isn't a capitalist IN ANY SENSE of the word, and what he is doing right now frankly worries the chit out of me...

I am getting ready to start a terrific business that will help thousands of small businesses across the country, but am very worried about increased taxes, and just Nobama's hands being out, in general....Its like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop...

Healthcare reform? Look, I don't like paying $3500 for my health insurance each year, but my carrier, my plan, and even whether or not I am going to have insurance is MY decision, NOT Nobama's....Sorry, but that is bull$****...Who does he think he is to DICTATE to me, a 36 year old grown man, what I have to do...? Uggghhhhh....

It is people that have good businesses, and run them sensibly, that are ultimately going to have no choice in shouldering this rediculous financial burden to straighten this country out...Nobama has said repeatedly that he feels its ok that anyone making some money can "pay a little more, and thats ok"? WTF? I can't come up with ONE logical, sensible way to find that fair in any way!

Here is the BIG problem with this. As a group (people that make a nice living):

WE weren't the people that defaulted on the rediculous sub-prime mortgages that banks handed out like free condoms to 7th graders...But anyone making a nice living in this country is going to take it in the A$$ to pay for it...Fair?

WE didn't contribute to the problems with AIG, or the banks that GAVE these loans, either...but again, anyone that makes a nice living in this country is going to take it in the A$$ to pay for it...Fair?

WE didn't have anything to do with the demise of the auto makers...They clearly did THAT to themselves by not being able to compete with the other car companies that entered the marketplace...While all auto sales are hurting bad, you don't see Honda, Toyota, Nisan, or anyone else screaming for help, do you? And by the way, before someone goes of on a tangent, the U.S. models of these cars ARE built here in the U.S. by workers who earn a decent & competitive wage, NOT by spoiled Union Workers who just traded the security of their future for the Presidency Of The United States. Now, I haven't got much against unions, but screwing all of their secured creditors (guys like you and me who bought their bonds...) and give a sweetheart deal to the unions deal was completely obscene...Now, that being said, if you are a union worker that benefits from this, I am glad that you and your family now have better security from this...It wasn't your fault that this happened to the rest of us, but it IS the fault of the Union leaders & Nobama, clearly...And once again, I'll spare the A$$ analogy, but you get my point....

We need a fair tax, and that is the only solution...Let us pay a 23% tax on the things that we CHOOSE to buy, and that % be the same whether you make $30,000/yr. or $1,000,000/yr.

Oh, and NOBAMA, if I am going to take it in the A$$ from you some more, can you please stop raising the taxes on petroleum so that I can afford the Vaseline this time?


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Old 07-05-2009, 01:47 AM
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With all due respect, and whether or not you think Obama is a savior or the anti-Christ, he was handed this mess we now call our economy. It's easy to forget that the first big "bail out," to the tune of $80 billion if memory serves, was AIG. Under the watch of President Bush.

To state or even imply that Obama is responsible for the current state of our economy simply ignores the facts. And that's not even taking into account the effects that China's and Europe's economic woes have had on our economy.

And before Obama haters savage me, please keep in mind that I'm not saying he has the solutions. (I'm not sure any one person can.) I am saying, however, and the facts are crystal clear, that this mess started long anyone even knew his name.

I am also not blaming Republicans. The sub-prime debacle has Democratic fingerprints (Frank and Dodd, for those who care) all over it.

To the original question at the top of this thread: No. These are the toughest times the marine industry has ever faced, and the industry will look a lot different when it emerges.
Speaking for myself (others may agree or disagree, of course...), I DON'T blame Nobama for the AIG, Bank, or auto industry problems causing our economy to sink like a lead submarine...I DO however blame him for the significance that he is putting on the rediculous spending and forcing this health care B.S and doing NOTHING to help put more money in peoples pockets to help the small to mid sized businesses survive and even prosper...It is these small-to-medium sized businesses that really drive this economy, NOT GM, Chrysler, and AIG....

As for the banks, the gov't needs to stay the [email protected] out of it...For those of us who lost a business in 2008-2009 because of an indirect result of the banks getting clobbered (or any other reason, for that matter...), what did Nobama do to bail US out...? WE had employees that needed their jobs saved, too....Oh, wait, we didn't all go to the polls and vote for him....I see now...Gimme a F'n break...If a business fails, another will start...Its capitalism....Oh, wait, you don't want that either....lol

If a business like GM, Chrysler, AIG, Citibank, and Bank Of America can't stay in business because they made terrible decisions, then let them fail...Why should you and I have to pay for it when we had nothng to do with it?

Some say that if you let the auto makers fail, that hundreds of thousands of people would lose their jobs....Isn't that happening now anyway?

But American's arent going to stop buying cars...They are just buying cars that are made better, and are more competitive in price...If you were to lose GM and Chrysler as we know them today, it would be obvious to even the most mentally challenged people in Washington (wow, thats a strectch, though...) that these same workers who worked at GM and/or Chrysler would find work at new, or other car companies that saw an increase in sales, or maybe because as a people, contrary to whay the government thinks, we are prety smart and resourceful...Maybe some of them would take control of their own future and start a business, or find work in another industry...whatever.

Then, there is the sad but true results...Of course, a small % of these people would end up having it pretty tough if they didn't bounce back from it, but in reality, why should every other American, their kids, and even their grandkids have to pay for it..IT ISN'T OUR F'N PROBLEM! (sorry...I just get pissed about this...)

And the banks? Do most of you realize that the Gov't FORCED most of them to take the TARP money? They weren't able to say no! And worse, last month when several banks told Nobama to shove it, here is your $$$ back, they couldn't give it back? This is a fact...This guy just likes to spend, spend, spend...It's WORSE than anything I have ever seen...Hopefully in 2010 we as a people will wake the [email protected] up and re-take 61 seats in Washington and just fire EVERY spending bill he presents down...Even if he pulls a Schwartzenegger and says that he will veto their bills until they play ball with him, I'd frankly rather see Washington in a total stalemate then until 2012 when we can get someone in office that knows how to run this country...At least the bleeding would stop...

The bottom line is this....The United States Of America is the largest "corporation" in the world, with the largest "revenues" and "expenses" of ANY "corporation." As such, it should be run by a real, experienced, and successful CEO that understands this.

Last edited by Moving2Miami; 07-05-2009 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:04 AM
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Moving to Miami, perfectly said, and that is my point. People, including Obama supporters, are going to realize soon what an empty suit this guy is and then turn on him. The media is already showing cracks. The only chance the country has is to balance out the congress in 2010. WE did it before in 1994. Here is to hoping it happens again!

Now, I am headed off to the Sarasota race!
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:04 AM
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As someone in the auto industry, you can always tell when someone without a clue starts ranting on it.

The auto industry has not been capitalism since day one. Gov't regulations telling you what must be built (CAFE) and what safety must be in (TPMS for example) that consumers WON'T pay for is not capitalism. Further, in a global market place where your competitors don't have the same burdens are allowed to sell here with no penalty (but you cant on their home turf) is not capitalism. So, while all the regulations and global tarriffs exist, the auto industry has been FAR from capitalism.

Also, if you think the foreign makes haven't been receiving gov't support from the beginning, you again are unaware. Bank of Japan has been loaning to Japanese, not to mention the massive tarriffs keeping out competition, or keeping the yen low to make massive profits. So, although the Big 3 have made plenty of mistakes, your assertion that they failed entirely on their own is complete BS But that's the difference in most country's, they show PRIDE in their products rather than ignorantly bashing them and hoping they fail.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:00 PM
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I'd frankly rather see Washington in a total stalemate then until 2012 when we can get someone in office that knows how to run this country...At least the bleeding would stop...

The bottom line is this....The United States Of America is the largest "corporation" in the world, with the largest "revenues" and "expenses" of ANY "corporation." As such, it should be run by a real, experienced, and successful CEO that understands this.

And THAT would be Mit Romney
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