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Has the industry ever been hit this hard?

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Old 07-05-2009, 01:33 PM
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As someone in the auto industry, you can always tell when someone without a clue starts ranting on it.

The auto industry has not been capitalism since day one. Gov't regulations telling you what must be built (CAFE) and what safety must be in (TPMS for example) that consumers WON'T pay for is not capitalism. Further, in a global market place where your competitors don't have the same burdens are allowed to sell here with no penalty (but you cant on their home turf) is not capitalism. So, while all the regulations and global tarriffs exist, the auto industry has been FAR from capitalism.

Also, if you think the foreign makes haven't been receiving gov't support from the beginning, you again are unaware. Bank of Japan has been loaning to Japanese, not to mention the massive tarriffs keeping out competition, or keeping the yen low to make massive profits. So, although the Big 3 have made plenty of mistakes, your assertion that they failed entirely on their own is complete BS But that's the difference in most country's, they show PRIDE in their products rather than ignorantly bashing them and hoping they fail.
Sorry if I rubbed ya the wrong way, bro....But my one and only real rant about the auto industry is qite simple...I had NOTHING to do with the failure of the auto industry, and as such, now I am going to have to pay a share to bail it out! WTF? How is that fair? Whoever is responsible, its THEIR mistakes, and NOT mine, so don't come to me for $$$...They need to fix it themselves, or let it collapse...Its that simple.

EDIT: And take what I said in the context that it was said.... "But that's the difference in most country's, they show PRIDE in their products rather than ignorantly bashing them and hoping they fail."

I have no problem with GM and Chrysler existing and building cars AS LONG AS I don't have to pay more in taxes to bail them out. Should they build a vehicle that I want to purchase (and I have had 3 GM & 2 Chrysler vehicles, btw...), then I will...If not, then they should have no, be it direct or indirect, access to my pocketbook.

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Old 07-05-2009, 01:39 PM
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And THAT would be Mit Romney
.
I actually am starting to like him the more I am learning about him....

How about going to the CEO of a Fortune 500 company that has shown consistent growth and profitability for 10 straight years, INCLUDING at that point, 2008, 2009, 2010, & 2011 and asking him to run for president?

I believe that would work, too...It would be pretty hard to say that he wasn't qualified to balance the budget and drive this country forward...
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:39 PM
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Sorry if I rubbed ya the wrong way, bro....But my one and only real rant about the auto industry is qite simple...I had NOTHING to do with the failure of the auto industry, and as such, now I am going to have to pay a share to bail it out! WTF? How is that fair? Whoever is responsible, its THEIR mistakes, and NOT mine, so don't come to me for $$$...They need to fix it themselves, or let it collapse...Its that simple.
There are so many people to blame, with the gov't being one of them with some of the regulations, etc. However, the overall cost (to you and everyone) of failure by any study I've heard of would have been MUCH higher than the cost to save them at this point. So, again why are so many people pissing and moaning over saving so many jobs at less cost to them? I get that it isn't "capitalism" but it never was to start with.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:48 PM
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There are so many people to blame, with the gov't being one of them with some of the regulations, etc. However, the overall cost (to you and everyone) of failure by any study I've heard of would have been MUCH higher than the cost to save them at this point. So, again why are so many people pissing and moaning over saving so many jobs at less cost to them? I get that it isn't "capitalism" but it never was to start with.
I believe that is a very Democratic way of looking at it...And frankly, I don't believe those studies that the Democrats put out anyway...Its like putting an engine on your dyno for a customer...The fact is, that you can basically make that dyno show whatever results ya want....Same with these
studies...

What these studies DON'T show you, is that more than 50% of these people would land new jobs connected to the auto industry as sales of other brands would spike, considering the fact that you couldn't buy a GM or Chrysler vehicle...

Oh, and understanding that Ford is in a struggle, but actually doing ok in all of this, why couldn't GM and Chrysler be as smart as Ford was and restructure themselves and be ready to fight their way through this WITHOUT all of our help (afterall, it IS us that are bailing them out).

Ford is still doing ok wthout Gov't bailout, and as such, this is what makes me place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the people that were running those companies. Ford has been subject to the same regulations as GM and Chrysler, yet, they have been doing ok...Of course, they feel the pinch in sales, but they seemed to be ready for it, and as such, will come out of thius on THEIR OWN TERMS.

In fact, here is an interesting fact...When Nobama was handing the bailout $$$ to GM and Chrysler, he tried VERY hard to get Ford to take some too, and Ford basically told him to [email protected] off.....We don't need your stinkin' money!

Sorry to sorta hijack this thread guys.......Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

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Old 07-05-2009, 03:54 PM
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I believe that is a very Democratic way of looking at it...And frankly, I don't believe those studies that the Democrats put out anyway...Its like putting an engine on your dyno for a customer...The fact is, that you can basically make that dyno show whatever results ya want....Same with these
studies...

What these studies DON'T show you, is that more than 50% of these people would land new jobs connected to the auto industry as sales of other brands would spike, considering the fact that you couldn't buy a GM or Chrysler vehicle...

Oh, and understanding that Ford is in a struggle, but actually doing ok in all of this, why couldn't GM and Chrysler be as smart as Ford was and restructure themselves and be ready to fight their way through this WITHOUT all of our help (afterall, it IS us that are bailing them out).

Ford is still doing ok wthout Gov't bailout, and as such, this is what makes me place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the people that were running those companies. Ford has been subject to the same regulations as GM and Chrysler, yet, they have been doing ok...Of course, they feel the pinch in sales, but they seemed to be ready for it, and as such, will come out of thius on THEIR OWN TERMS.

In fact, here is an interesting fact...When Nobama was handing the bailout $$$ to GM and Chrysler, he tried VERY hard to get Ford to take some too, and Ford basically told him to [email protected] off.....We don't need your stinkin' money!

Sorry to sorta hijack this thread guys.......Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...
Wrong. This is what I was talking about of people who don't know going off on the industry. Ford mortgaged everything to borrow money in 06, just before the lending dissapeared. Their "restructuring" has been doing all the same stuff as GM, but with the benefit of more liquidity. They are not "doing OK". They just have more cash to wait this out, cash GM did not have access to when they tried to raise it a few months after Ford did.

You honestly think all these people (remember all the suppliers beyond OEM employees) would just find "new jobs" replacing those? How quick? How fast would the market rebound back up to create these jobs (here's a hint, the extra capacity of the industry could eat that volume without a single new job, that's how bad sales are right now)? What about the real estate foreclosures and losses? The tax losses? The unemployment for a year? Seriously, nice try of labeling me a "democrat" because you don't seem to get all the implications. It's realy easy to say "capitalism" will work and would fix everything, but we haven't had it before and don't now, and is ignorant to think so. Your tax dollars go to lots of crap you don't want, and so do mine. They decisions are made on what to spend on for the greatest good. That is a side effect of living in a democracy. I'm not aware of any better or other way to do it.
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Old 07-05-2009, 04:10 PM
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There is NO balance the Rats control the house and the Executive branch through Voter fraud and Lies.


Wealth redistribution and reparations is the end game here.






http://www.nationalreview.com/
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Old 07-05-2009, 04:36 PM
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Wrong. This is what I was talking about of people who don't know going off on the industry. Ford mortgaged everything to borrow money in 06, just before the lending dissapeared. Their "restructuring" has been doing all the same stuff as GM, but with the benefit of more liquidity. They are not "doing OK". They just have more cash to wait this out, cash GM did not have access to when they tried to raise it a few months after Ford did.

You honestly think all these people (remember all the suppliers beyond OEM employees) would just find "new jobs" replacing those? How quick? How fast would the market rebound back up to create these jobs (here's a hint, the extra capacity of the industry could eat that volume without a single new job, that's how bad sales are right now)? What about the real estate foreclosures and losses? The tax losses? The unemployment for a year? Seriously, nice try of labeling me a "democrat" because you don't seem to get all the implications. It's realy easy to say "capitalism" will work and would fix everything, but we haven't had it before and don't now, and is ignorant to think so. Your tax dollars go to lots of crap you don't want, and so do mine. They decisions are made on what to spend on for the greatest good. That is a side effect of living in a democracy. I'm not aware of any better or other way to do it.
First, Ford was in a position to not need gov't bailouts because they had access to cash and GM & Chrysler didn't. That being said, it is pretty clear to me that mismanagement and bad decisions (or non-decisions) by the GM & Chrysler management led them to have to ask for every working American to bail them out...I really don't understand what is not clear about that. Ford having the ability to whether the storm simply proves that point? I am just saying that i had no involvement with putting GM, Chrysler, AIG, these banks and mortgage companies in this mess, and as such, I should have no involvement in their collapse, fix, or whatever happens to them...

I am not the only one that feels this way, and that voice will be heard next year when the"smart" people take over the house & the senate end the free reign that this crazy Nobama futhermucker has had for the first two years of his reign as Commander In Grief!

It seems that we'll just have to agree to disagree because you have obviously missed my entire point. I don't see any reason to waste anymore time on this...I understand that as an auto industry veteran that you may be quite bitter and sensitive about this whole subject and as such, I respect that. I just differ in my opinion that this is something that every person in America should pay for, regardless of the fact that it is not their problem.

Last edited by Moving2Miami; 07-05-2009 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 07-05-2009, 04:37 PM
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There is NO balance the Rats control the house and the Executive branch through Voter fraud and Lies.


Wealth redistribution and reparations is the end game here.






http://www.nationalreview.com/
You are spot on, brother...
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Old 07-05-2009, 04:48 PM
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First, Ford was in a position to not need gov't bailouts because they had access to cash and GM & Chrysler didn't. That being said, it is pretty clear to me that mismanagement and bad decisions (or non-decisions) by the GM & Chrysler management led them to have to ask for every working American to bail them out...I really don't understand what is not clear about that. Ford having the ability to whether the storm simply proves that point? I am just saying that i had no involvement with putting GM, Chrysler, AIG, these banks and mortgage companies in this mess, and as such, I should have no involvement in their collapse, fix, or whatever happens to them...

I am not the only one that feels this way, and that voice will be heard next year when the"smart" people take over the house & the senate end the free reign that this crazy Nobama futhermucker has had for the first two years of his reign as Commander In Grief!

It seems that we'll just have to agree to disagree because you have obviously missed my entire point. I don't see any reason to waste anymore time on this with someone who is obviously a bitter auto industry veteran who thinks that this is something that every person in America should pay for, regardless of the fact that it is not their problem.
Well, I guess what you miss is the failure would be big enough it WOULD be your problem. Either way, thanks for your tax dollars then. Too bad this is the ONLY way they're being mispent according to you I guess.
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Old 07-05-2009, 04:49 PM
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Well, I guess what you miss is the failure would be big enough it WOULD be your problem. Either way, thanks for your tax dollars then. Too bad this is the ONLY way they're being mispent according to you I guess.
Why would it be MY problem?

First of all, I NEVER said that this was the ONLY problem with how my tax dollars are spent...I actually have a major problem with the fundamental fairness of the whole system, and frankly, there isn't enough time in the day for me to list everything I have issues with, but suffice it to say that I think its B.S. that someone that makes $25,000 pays a LESS % in taxes that someone who makes much more than that...Its as if we are being penalized for being smart enough to take the entrepreneurial risks that allow us to earn more...The only other explanation other than being penalized is that we are expected to carry everyone else's load because we are American, and that is even worse. If I choose to help someone out with some money, than it is exactly that - MY CHOICE. In this gov't, we have sh!t rammed down our throats with no choice...

The only solution is a simple 23%fair tax where everyone pays the same rate on everything that they purchase as a sales tax. Then we are all individually in control of what we spend, and can't really b!otch at that point.

It would all be collected by the States, as they are already set-up for that, they would then kick up their % to the fed, and all would be fair.

Also, keep in mind that at a MINIMUM, this would GREATLY reduce the size of the IRS, which is an ENORMOUS portion of the federal budget to begin with...

It has been proven time & time again by some of the most brilliant financial minds in America that it would work extremely well.

THAT is what will grow this economy like never seen before. www.fairtax.org

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