Like Tree9Likes

63' Bertram Possibly stuffed off SC???

Reply
Old 01-15-2010, 11:52 AM
  #81
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve 1 View Post
Numbers ?? so what what do they really mean? Here too continue:
Uncle once again you cheap shot the discussion the testing was done at Sigma Labs . The numbers are just that with the Plastic cores they do not indicate Failure Got it ! only the material moved and that was marked as it's physical VIA the ASTM Methods Now I just prefer the nasty moment of Inerita/Panel Beam Deflection Via any Extreme and Severe loading too be just that and not a Failure Point! Are you with me??
No cheap shot intended - only observation.

Look at it objectively, my data has posted sources.
Actually "I" dont have any personal data,
I just copy data from the guys that make the product.
Until you answered sigma labs- how would I/we know?

I would very respectfully disagree with you - it always boils down to the #'s no matter what.

I dont expect to change your mind, but I dont see how we are supposed to believe-

1. that all the testing numbers somehow dont matter. All the data is somehow skewed to make corecell look bad and is really meaningless.

(first you accused me of posting bogus data now you say the data itself is meaningless)

2. The most successful names in performance boating all have it wrong and are building boats out of material you specifically say is flower planter material.

When you say things like that you insinuate everyone else is stupid and only you get it.



UD
Uncle Dave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:55 AM
  #82
Registered
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: naples,florida
My Boats: 19'baron to name a few
Posts: 3,543
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR TIME View Post
whats the average cost of the 54 over a mil? and are they covered in glass on the out side ? I just looked quick at 2am last night, built by eye with a jig correct that they use to start them it looks. awesome looking like a BD SF with the flared deck.
Hell back in the day you could buy one for 400,000 until the owners wanted every luxury in the world in them.

Only the engine room had 1/4 5 ply plywood on the sides and than 1 layer of glass over the plywood and just one layer of glass over the frames and juniper planks on the inside hull bottom.under the engines.The plywoods primary function believe it or not was to prevent plank print through years down the road that would happen if you used just glass over the planks.
The rest of the boat inside was just bare frames and planking like you would see in any wood boat.We would spray some deadly primer and paint on it dont recall what it was.

What you see in the pics on the website of the boats being built rightside up is the laying of the keel and than they would insert a couple of frames and than using a fairing batten across thoses frames they would get the shape of the frame needed to fill the gap and build it.All the boats started with a basic few frames to get the overall shape and just were tweaked and eyed in from there.
Once you had your frames all up you would fair the angles of the frames with a planer and grinder to get them flush to recieve the planking.Than the fun part planking.One guy mixes another spreads the thickened epoxy between the planks and on the frames and 3 guys nail them in with like a #8 copper nail.5 guys could pank up a boat in 2 days. That is the fun part as you see alot of progress so quickly.
Than a day of fairing the planking with a 36 grit grinder. Fun stuff i tell you.
Next step was 2 layers of 1708 on the bottom followed by fairing compound so there was no fiberglass sanding between coats.
Nexy step the 1/4 inch ply hung vertically on the sides glued with thickened epoxy and screwed in with drywall screws.
Next step some 1708 over the plywood after you removed the drywall screws and sanded any residue off followed by fairing compound. No glass sanding in the shop if you can help it.
And than the really fun part 2 days of the whole crew sanding and fairing with 3 foot fairing boards.Paul was great though on sanding day he would have you sand for the morning and thanmake the crew luch on the grill and give us the rest of the day off with a whole days pay.Not much but i thought it was nice of him and it kept the crew enthused.
The Buddy Davis line was one of the only convential fiberglass mold built boats in the area.Huge facility for the area, I think Wanchese.
I would go back and do it again if i had the chance,Dirty work but pretty cool all in all.Wouldn't want to do it at a glassboat shop though to dirty and itchy.

Last edited by tommymonza; 01-15-2010 at 11:59 AM.
tommymonza is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:01 PM
  #83
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Steve 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Beautiful Fort Lauderdale www.cheetahcat.com
My Boats: Slippery when wet!
Posts: 10,833
Default

Uncle D-100 is a Baltek product you should Know that! the scrim you like there was in fact what started that company ,IMHO one of Schoells guys Back in the old days when it came in blocks and you had to place every one of them anyway he got the idea to put a fine mesh in them to facilitate the process,
Now that said Buzzi spent time in our shop when he raced a Gray Ivecco Cat in Key West one Year and he would bond the Core then rip the scrim off it and that was the advice he gave me on the subject, I built a 55 footer out of it and the sheets bag in like anything else.

My point here it that the D-100 was the strongest representation of that material as the glass scrim does not add to the physicals of the laminate it detracts!

Regards
Steve 1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:09 PM
  #84
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Steve 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Beautiful Fort Lauderdale www.cheetahcat.com
My Boats: Slippery when wet!
Posts: 10,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
No cheap shot intended - only observation.

Look at it objectively, my data has posted sources.
Actually "I" dont have any personal data,
I just copy data from the guys that make the product.
Until you answered sigma labs- how would I/we know?

I would very respectfully disagree with you - it always boils down to the #'s no matter what.

I dont expect to change your mind, but I dont see how we are supposed to believe-

1. that all the testing numbers somehow dont matter. All the data is somehow skewed to make corecell look bad and is really meaningless.

(first you accused me of posting bogus data now you say the data itself is meaningless)

2. The most successful names in performance boating all have it wrong and are building boats out of material you specifically say is flower planter material.

When you say things like that you insinuate everyone else is stupid and only you get it.



UD
No I was only pointing OUT your Fallacy here and fixation to a set of numbers that are useless when applied to some material and trying to show the Hydormats place in the scheme of things!
Steve 1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:31 PM
  #85
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve 1 View Post
No I was only pointing OUT your Fallacy here and fixation to a set of numbers that are useless when applied to some material and trying to show the Hydormats place in the scheme of things!


When you say my fallacy you are really saying (Skaters, Schiada's, Sabre, Lavey, Eliminator big list....) companies that have been in business 50-55 years, many have boats still running today from that era.

You are arguing with the builders as much more than you are me.

Whenever the #'s dont work out like people want, they cry foul and claim testing distortion.

Like I said I didnt publish the #'s. I only posted the manufacturers data. You attacked me personally saying I posted bogus data.

You "sell" your boats against the companies above claiming they use inferior materials- tough sell when the THIRD PARTY #'s dont align with your agenda.



UD
Uncle Dave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:51 PM
  #86
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Steve 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Beautiful Fort Lauderdale www.cheetahcat.com
My Boats: Slippery when wet!
Posts: 10,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
When you say my fallacy you are really saying (Skaters, Schiada's, Sabre, Lavey, Eliminator big list....) companies that have been in business 50-55 years, many have boats still running today from that era.

You are arguing with the builders as much more than you are me.

Whenever the #'s dont work out like people want, they cry foul and claim testing distortion.

Like I said I didnt publish the #'s. I only posted the manufacturers data. You attacked me personally saying I posted bogus data.

You "sell" your boats against the companies above claiming they use inferior materials- tough sell when the THIRD PARTY #'s dont align with your agenda.



UD
Uncle That is not going to work and I am not trying to sell anything here, just showing you the "Why" and error of your ways , But it seems a futile effort at best.Testing has always played a big role in what I do and rely on That feed back..

Second Point no matter what the workup indicates on paper a sample from the Lamination Shop needs to be evaluated.
Steve 1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:57 PM
  #87
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve 1 View Post
Uncle That is not going to work and I am not trying to sell anything here, just showing you the "Why" and error of your ways , But it seems a futile effort at best.Testing has always played a big role in what I do and rely on That feed back..

Second Point no matter what the workup indicates on paper a sample from the Lamination Shop needs to be evaluated.
How about we respectfully agree to disagree on core material?



UD
Uncle Dave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 06:10 PM
  #88
Registered
 
AIR TIME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: EASTON MA.
My Boats: BAJA OL 650HP/ SABER 28 Gellner unlimited with konrad ace
Posts: 6,281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve 1 View Post
No wrong when hit HARD HARD it will yield OR transfer the loading to a larger portion of thi inside lamnate .where The Balsa will Fail! How do you read cracking Gelcoat into that ? So you would rather have a failure instead?
just was asking you to explain, if gel would be stiff and crack. well my old boat is cord with balsa and has lasted 20yrs and my new boat is all balsa and well known for its taking a licking and keeps ticking. I have seen a corded boat take a impact last summer when a another boat bumped in to it at 2 or 3 mph with its nose and put a dent in it 6'' and I noticed cracking of the custom paint or gel it was a skater that got hit. and its not balsa on the side of the hull. thats why I asked. boy I hope my new ride doesn't crack it sure sounded like steelwhen I checked it out in oct. so what are the lastest boats that you built were they ob or ib what power speeds. thanks later
AIR TIME is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2010, 10:45 AM
  #89
Registered
 
PhantomChaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bell Canyon, CA
My Boats: Formula FASTech 382 Sunseeker Apache 45
Posts: 12,756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
How about we respectfully agree to disagree on core material?



UD


NO!! Don't do that! Keep the thread going......! I don't know crap about this stuff but I was learning something. Maybe you're just not understanding Steve's run-on posts? Maybe he's not understanding the numbers from the manufacturers? Maybe you like wood and he doesn't?
PhantomChaos is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2010, 11:20 AM
  #90
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Steve 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Beautiful Fort Lauderdale www.cheetahcat.com
My Boats: Slippery when wet!
Posts: 10,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomChaos View Post
NO!! Don't do that! Keep the thread going......! I don't know crap about this stuff but I was learning something. Maybe you're just not understanding Steve's run-on posts? Maybe he's not understanding the numbers from the manufacturers? Maybe you like wood and he doesn't?
LOL Nort my life has been all about the numbers like My first Cat was living Math! Plus,

having the not only the Resin Laboratory's Phone Numbers But research Chemists (who BTW do not even speak our language)home phone numbers when I was doing a lot of work that needed extending Gel times and ETC..

And The Core Manufacturer Himself dropping by once in a while.


JUST Using those Numbers WITHOUT real world evaluation is NOT understanding the the Problems.

I will make another Post.

Last edited by Steve 1; 01-16-2010 at 11:36 AM.
Steve 1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.