August didn't own Dave's boats, so I don't know how that is owner supported?

Get dave to tell you how much $ AB is giving him... go ahead. While you're at it.. ask the Geico guys...

Impressions are misleading. I had a race promoter once tell a hosing marina that people like "Bernie Little" would be gracing his docks..etc..etc.. While I respect the memory of BL, he was one of the bigger "Freeloaders" who expected to be comped' everything and it got to the point that his entourage was asked to leave on a few occasions. He thought that since he owned one of the boats in comp... and since he distributed Budweiser his presence alone was an asset to the function.. the "Paris Hilton" effect.

Having worked for the Geico Camp in 2007, it is my understanding Geico does live by a budgeted contract and contributes sponsorship dollars to the team and the AMF organization... I wouldn't believe the "Key People" from the Geico Corporation would just show up in Cambridge for a Race unless they had invested dollars into it IMHO.
No doubt, majority still comes from John H's pocket, but that is because John wants the huge show !
Noticed he even scaled the team back in 2009. There wasn't the convoy of 13 Semis or whatever the number was rolling down the highway and the days of feeding the entire general public that walked into their pits are gone. Not that anyone should have expected him to do such a thing in the first place.
Mr Haggin has been very generous and is now Sponsoring the entire OPA Racing Season this year...
I suppose you could consider the AMF Organization as another big corporate sponsor, even though they own their own team.

Go back to your original post.
Quote-
"So I think boating needs a new magazine and I wondered what everyone else thought."

It seems as though you got the answers you were looking for, you just don't like them. No one is knocking you personally but there is a big difference between a cool idea and commercial viability.

good post...

I cannot find the FU to advertisers comment but I do remember making it. I do not recall the context around it I did also say that page layout and stuff would be easy and I will have to say I would retract those words.

I do not understand AB not putting ads in PB I know for a fact they put pictures of Dave Scotts boat on Billboards in the middle of St Louis so they must feel some cross promotion to the general public.

I feel that I was potentially knocked personally with comments like niave and arrogant. I asked what people thought of the type of magazine content. I was then told the content was not a bad idea but would never work for the reason that advertisers would not buy spots (this was based on the fact that PB could not find eenough advertisers) I think in saying this product is not commercially viable would be a stretch based on no facts.

I would be interested in numbers if they are public information.
How many issues does PB do a year? (10?)

How many magazines are printed every month?

How many subscribers?

Who is PB's demograpic?

I will say I do buy a powerboat every now and then but I read every one of them in the bookstore (not helping huh) When I do pick them up it is for some good pictures. I also love the layout and the quality is awesome.

I just don't have an interest in a new donzi with 525's that is listed at 200,000 plus. In my mind I think who buys this boat you could pick up equally used for 1/2 or better. That is why I feel that showing someone that they could buy used and find a deal or fix something up with some sweat equity could put someone in a boat that they maybe could not otherwise afford. It would be a safe bet to say the majority of the memebers here are this type of person.

It all goes back to member support vs. REAL corporate support. Sure uninvolved entities kick in.. But not enough to support... and you dont see many of them do it for very long. Offshore racing is not a safe return on the advertising budget.

It could be said that Alcone Marketing sponsored a boat... true, but that was a member supported team.. He raced the boat himself... AND will be the first to admit that it was a 100% expense with no tangible return for him or his business.

I know the Geico numbers... and you would be surprised. I will also add that Geico is getting one hell of a deal. Most of that budget is covered by the boat's owner, who, in my opinion, is the next great saint of Offshore Racing.

In terms of the Alcone team, Matt paid for everything. the only return he ever saw was in inviting clients in and entertaining them. that in turn helped his real business. When we raced in Argentina we had Burger King on the boat. Did they give us money? No. It was done as a perk and to entertain the BK folks since Matt did there marketing. No company is going to pay the kind of money it takes to run a big boat because the demographics are just not there. My wife ran the marketing for APBA, OPBRA and others and I saw first hand ALL the demographics surrounding boat racing, poker runs and the boat business as a whole. Kids on skateboards reached a bigger marketing audience. sad but true. Since you have decided already the everyone else has done it wrong you have already decided that you are right so I think you should go ahead and do it. As for Sharky you are right in your formula but keep in mind it applies to the internet. would you still be profitable if you had to print and ship that same info? best of luck.
Steve Schmidt

Thanks Steve,

Couldn't have said it better. I hired your wife at OPBRA and she was the best publicist to ever promote the sport. I hope you're doing okay man... Its good to see your words.

T.

This will be my last post on this thread so we will have to agree to disagree. Your quote-

"I think in saying this product is not commercially viable would be a stretch based on no facts."

Here are the facts and they can not be twisted turned or polished in any way:

Year over year-
Boat sales-down
Marine parts, accessories and equipment sales-down
Newstand magazine sales-down
Magazine subscriptions-down
Total advertising expenditures-down

Conde Naste has shut down magazines that have been publishing for forty years. So if you have the magic pill, go ahead Einstein and show us all how wrong we all are.

I loved working with Michelle! She was a very talented, insightful and hard working. I think she accompllished a ton for the sport. She always seemed to have just the right words.

Marty
webmaster from APBA/Allweiss days

My last post as well, but something that should give anyone starting a new magazine pause:

Conde Nast shut down Gourmet magazine late last year. It had been published for decades. More to the point, it had almost 1 million subscribers.

Again, I wish you nothing but luck, db71, because a healthy consumer magazine is indicative of a healthy consumer industry.

I do not feel I have a magic I do not know if this would work or not. I am listening to the ideas.

So we think the content is not a bad idea everyone agrees now I am thinking do a quarterly magazine with projects etc. More of a reference that people would keep around forever. Maybe PB should think about adding a Seperate add in mag 4 times a year with this type of content. Maybe like Matt said do a website and then sell the articles if someone wants hard copy. I know they could download or copy for free if they wanted. but have something that would look better than a few pages printed off the computer.

One thing I realized in all my comparisons to car mags is car technology changes all the time boats are still the same basic concept as 30-40 years ago.

I conceed doing a 12 month a year magazine about DIY may be a little challeging but doing 4 or 6 a year may be a little easier maybe just make each one with more content.

Listen to Mr. Trulio as I agree with everything he has stated. I have been involved in magazine publishing for 21 years. Many of them with Powerboat Magazine and Hot Boat Magazine. db71-- when I first read your post I said to myself that your idea sounds very familiar as I was also the person who launched Family And Performance Boating on behalf of Buckaroo Communications in 1999 (thanks Matt for pointing out this publication). Currently I am the Vice President of Sales & Operations for the company that publishes Hot Rod, Motor Trend and the aforementioned Popular Hot Rodding and Project Car--among many others. With experience on both marine and automotive publications I can tell you that launching a magazine takes an enourmous financial and time commitment. Knowledge and a passion of the editorial subject is not enough. With that said, our country was founded on capatalism. I am still a fan of performance boating and if you create a publication, I will read it.

Hows it been Warren? Miss seeing you around the Ventura County area....Hope things are well.

Tank

I would read it. And damn, I still miss Family and Performance Boats mag.
I'd even probably want to be one of those first advertisers that you lure in with the low prices. :drink:

Real boats for real people.

Hello Warren,

I am looking at shooting more autos in the future.
I have been contacted by a high end custom car company to do shoots for them, and also made a contact with SUPERTRUCKS at the Miami Boat Show.

If all goes well, I hope to be sending pics your way for publishing... :drink:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/im...57323556-3.jpg

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/im...72106271-3.jpg

Best regards,

Tim Sharkey

Warren

Good to see you here

Thanks for the chat last week Things seem to be progressing well with what we talked about I am hopfull for our progress

Stay in touch

Marc