‎44' Aluminum V Hull with FPT 560's + ZF 2-speed/ASD8 Inline Drives

Made a 260 Nm trip during the weekend. First a 130 Nm leg to Stockholm to the start of Roslagsloppet.
Then we followed the race all the way up to Öregrund, about 80 Nm.
Finished the day with a 48 Nm offshorerun out in the Baltic Sea(2-3 ft chop) home to Gävle. 42 min = 77 mph average.

Last tests before winter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D97yL...hannel&list=UL

ttt thought I would bring this back up , how's the boat running

Boat is running fine! But the owner is in a worse shape...

Rode a lot of motox/enduro in the wintertime and reinjured my back, two herniated discs plus spinal stenosis (old injury).
Surgery in September so I will only do two shorter races in Norway/Denmark in July.
Skagerak Across- 140 Nm and the Skagen Summer Race- 80 Nm.
The early plan was to do some longdistance recordruns, like the Swedish Blue Ribbon, 720 Nm.

Were out yesterday and tried some modified propellers in a nice 3-4 ft chop.
But always back to the 28-18", 5-blades. The 29-16,75" are a bit faster, 2-3 mph, but the 28-18" work in all conditions.
Very little need to trim and nice grip.
80-85 mph with 600 l of fuel and all raceequipment like tools, liferaft, anchor, second 700 l fueltank etc.

Looking forward to the London-MonteCarlo race next year...

Did you ever make note of the fuel burn at various speeds?? I wonder how those FPT compare to the 550 Cummins.

In ag applications the fpt motors around 500 horse and up are 2-3 gallons a hour better than a 550 cummins across the board

Pstorti,
Answered your question in the Hustler-Diesel-thread earlier:


Originally Posted by 7075T6
My 44 ft raceboat, with 2 x FPT 560, gets 1,43 mpg at 80 mph and 1,26 at WOT(85-88 mph depending on fuelload).
Never more than 1,65 mpg at any speed. Boat weighs 11000 lbs raceready, 220 gal of fuel, no crew.

44 ft Endurance Diesel
Even at lower speeds you don't get better economy? what about at 40 or 50 mph?

Looks like the hull is so much more efficient at higher speeds. Usually never run below 60-70 mph

1.4 mpg @ 80 is sweet in a big V bottom , actually in any boat :) . How many hour's on them now ?

About 30 hours of running.

Our 37' overall 34' running surface twin Yanmar 260 diesel boat gets 2 litres (0.528 US Gallon) per mile at between 65 and 70mph, works out to 1.9 miles per USG, more if it's a British Gallon - 2.27 MPG!

I like that mileage.nice

Nice build. Hope the back feels better! Good Luck in the future races :):)

we get 2 mpg @ 80 mph in the skater v with diesels, that is with all the safety gear and a few hundred gallons of diesel and two of us in it. When we had 600 gallons in it to average 2 mpg we had to drop speed to 75.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq0WiMKhlJY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu98_yPg6aQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of1RY4M8VqM

That boat has the 5.9L cummins or the 6.7L are they 480HP or 550HP? I want to build a Skater cat with the exact same powertrain you have but with the 6.7L 550HP cummins. What kind of mpg do you get with a light setup at ideal speeds?

I get a best of 2.6 or 2.7 mpg in my 37 Spectre center console going 33mph light on fuel with just me on board, same setup gets me 2.5mpg at 40mph. But normal load and passengers is between 2 and 2.3 depending on seas, wind, and load on board. It usually is only a tenth or two worse going 40mph vs 32mph so I usually go faster. I get 2mpg all the way to 50mph, then it starts to drop slightly and bottoms out at 57mph top speed around 1.8 or 1.7 mpg. My boat is heavy with a big t-top and conventional bottom.

Are we talking "Nautical miles" or "Miles".
Just wonder, as we always talk "Nautical miles and "Knots" here in Sweden.

I am talking US Gallons and statute miles for speeds and mpg.

Ok. Sorry to mix things up...
Means that my earlier figures should be corrected as I was talking Nautical miles.

1,43 mpg at 80 mph and 1,26 at WOT(85-88 mph depending on fuelload).
Never more than 1,65 mpg at any speed.

Should be:

1,65 mpg at 80 mph and 1,45 at WOT(85-88 mph depending on fuelload).
Never more than 1,9 mpg at any speed.

Love to see all these new Diesel Projects popping up..

Took me a while to understand what Joe's been preaching also, but he's spot on when it comes to the prop speed being key. HP is the easy part with the diesels, but just because they say you can turn them 4k doesn't mean your gonna do it all day long. Diesels work off of heat and compression, the harder ya run the more heat they will build.

My built Duramax can run safely at 2600R's for hours, but push it to 3600R's and the heat builds quick, and that time drops to a couple minutes before the gauges start peaking. Best every day example of a hot diesel boat setup is pulling that same boat up an endless hill with your diesel truck. Push the throttle down for an uphill mile and watch your gauges. That's a diesel boat every day run...

Thinking of starting another double Dmax build, and a 2-speed "overdrive" trans is the FIRST part that will be fit to each engine. 3500R's at the prop while turning 2500R's at the crank is my ultimate performance goal.

Nice Build.

-K

PS. Did 120 miles running on Cumberland and Dale Hollow couple weeks ago on just 24gal of fuel. 5mpg..

Chapeau bas 7075T6.

Very nice project.

In my opinion the best mix: aluminium, diesels, multi-speed gearbox and surface propellers!

My engines don't do that I can run them wide open continuously (approx 3950 rpm) and they don't continue to increase in temp, they run close to 1200 degrees EGT and about 170 degrees water temp wide open, longest I have done it has been about 20 min. Normal cruise (45mph 3300-3400 rpm) is 950 EGT and 160 water temp. I am planning on putting the water injection system back in to control the EGT's better when i am running it hard, just to be on the safe side 1200 degrees is pushing it.

Been running the FPT,s at 1200+ EGT for HOURS... Watertemp 180-185... Oiltemp 190-200...Speed 80+mph...No problems!
FPT say you can go up to 1400 EGT. Great engines!

I am planning on the FPT or Cummins for my next boat, good to hear! Yanmar says keep it below 1200 and you can run forever so that is what I will do.

Have you found anybody that can modify the FPT for more power? That is the reason I am also considering the Cummins there are hundreds of aftermarket products available to increase the performance.

No problems to get more power. Buzzi runs 600+ on his engines but I don't have his backup from FPT... On a highperformance diesel that also means higher EGT and shorter lifespan. As my boat is built for enduranceracing the 570,s will be enough.

If you increase power on the 560 FPT ,there is an increase in EGT off course ,if money is no issue ,you may consider a slightly bigger compressor ,just to move more air to lower the EGT,s , you may also consider a cut back to the turbine wheel ,or let a reputable turbo /tuner determine how many degrees the wheel already is ,it might be already done at the factory ,if not ,it can also be a improvement in back press and lower EGT

Stirling. Been looking at another turbo as an option.And/or a larger intercooler.
The gearboxes(300ATS) limits the search a bit as they are on the limit already.
The solution is to flatten the torquecurve and that means some hours on the dyno.
Plus its a lot of work to get the engines out... Maybe next year...

EGT's are easily lowered with some water injection, I am planning on using X-power drives so I can eliminate the gearbox from the list of things that can fail, but that also limits how much power the engines can make, I think I can max out around 700 and still have the drives live. But if the boat does over 70 with stock motors I may leave them alone, if it does 78 I'll have to mess with them to get over 80. :)

The lower the exhuast backpressure the lower the EGT. A diesel is just like a gas engine there is really no difference when it comes to air flow and how the engine will react to it.

Lower the boost, increase the flow that lowers intake temperature and allows the aftercooler to work better and remember Pressure is inversely proportional to Flow and Flow is affected by:

Tube diameter - If the diameter of the tube is halved the flow through it reduces to onesixteenth.
That means that flow is directly proportional to d4.

Length - If the length is doubled the flow is halved, therefore flow is inversely
proportional to the length of the tube. (A central line is much longer
than a cannula, and for the same diameter air flows more slowly).

So larger pipes cut on a bais will always flow more with less pressure than smaller pipes cut straight with higher pressure.

it does come with some oars (really long ones) just in case that situation should occur... excellent Q

do you even know who frank & dodd are?

if you had to do it again, would you still go with the alum hull vs fiberglass? what do your engine trans combos weigh? great seeing more diesel projects being built. i hope to do one next year after i sell one of my properties...rm

Hi Joe, I already have through hull exhaust, does have 2 90's an internal and external flappers, its underwater at idle speeds so can't be to careful, when I went from thru prop to thru hull helped planing speed, mpg, and top end, had to put some mufflers on though the diesels don't make an enjoyable sound.

Here is part of the install requirements for the Cummins 6.7, they require an 8" exhaust if it is wet! That is huge, only on the 550hp version though the 480 can use 6" wet exhaust.

Engine Model QSB6.7550
After-cooling SW
HP SAE(Metric) 542/(550)
Rated RPM 3300
Usage Rating** HO
Wet Exhaust Size Min 8"
Dry Exhaust Size Min. 4"
Sea Water Supply Min. 2"
Fuel Supply/Return Min. I.D. #8 JIC 37 Flare #8 JIC 37 Flare
Air Inlet Area Per Engine (Sq.In.) 294
Battery Size Min. CCA/MCA (12VDC) 1100/1375
Battery Size Min. CCA/MCA (24VDC) 550/688
Battery Cable Size Min. #00

Hi how are you sounds are if the boat is running well!

I'm not talking about after the turbo, I'm talking about before turbo on exh and after turbo on intake. Your exhaust pipe sizes because they are so short really don't affect much, yes the bigger & straighter the better but more in general about making a engine run better. When you have to add more aftercooling because intake temps are too high look at why, if you open things up boost will drop as boost drop temps go down hence aftercooler becomes more effective as it has less heat going through it.

You would be surprised how much heat the aftercooler can generate because of restriction, lower that and the temp drops.

So I'm saying nothing in particular just remember basics before you start changing things, examine root causes to the problems first.

Ok I get it, not much I can do about those parts of the system, the turbo is bolted to the exhaust manifold, and after the turbo to the aftercooler on the intake side there is only a short pipe with a 90 in it, it would take major $$$ I think to improve on either of those systems. I will have to yank the intake pipe off at some point and see if it would be easy to make a better one. I have gotten a lot better performance out of them by making adjustments to the aneroid, and improving fuel delivery using a lift pump.

Lift pump makes a big difference, no matter how you look at it the fill port on a plunger (your engines are mechanical pumps right?) is only open for so long time wise, the faster the engine turns the shorter the time it's open.

That is why when you look at mechanical fuel injection pumps they have a limit as to how fast the engine will turn. The governor has zero effect on that meaning if you bypass, lockout or remove the governor link to the fuel rack the faster you turn the pump on the stand the fuel delivery will start going down past a certain point and continue downward. That is why the engine goes flat, nothing to do with turbos, governors or anything other than fluid dynamics to fill the plunger cavity - it simple can not produce more power past that point and in fact the Hp drops like a rock.

By adding an extra or higher pressure fuel pump you can keep the fuel galley full of fuel and increse the pressure slightly. The next thing is to increase the spring pressure on the fuel pump return fitting or restrict it, the more spring pressure the higher the fuel pressure before it allows return, that will also increase HP higher up in the rpm range without messing with anything internally.

Do you have any knowledge of the older Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines? The cylinder head had a numbered fuel restriction fitting on the fuel return galleries. If you just had an engine rebuilt and it won't start for anything you always checked to make sure the restrictor fitting was in, without it you had almost zero fuel pressure in the galley around the injectors - no pressure no run! As the DD went into higher HP models the restrictor sizes would change as well because the higher HP engines needed more galley (fuel rail) pressure.

Didn't mean to digress just it's funny how all things new or old are still based around the same principles and if you understand them you can make anything run better and better.

I always enjoyed the "vise grip " technique on our 6-v92t
Detroit. Increase back pressure to injectors and hazaa. More power!

That's what I like to hear - Bravo!

I have one of these 95GPH at 15psi, my engines only use 16-17GPH each wide open, picked up 2 mph installing this with no other mods.

http://www.fassride.com/shop/fuel-ai...ium-series.php

I can change the spring on the lift pump to present higher fuel pressure to the mechanical pumps on the engines, do you think it would make more power doing that? The fuel line feeds into the engine fuel filter which has a little plunger on it to prime them when you change filters the lift pump makes this obsolete and you actually cannot even push the plunger down it is rock solid now. The excess fuel leaves the filter housing passes through a cooler and goes back to the tank. I hadn't thought about increasing the pressure any more we (me and the FASS tech) were concerned we would have to much pressure at 15psi I actually have a spring that gives lower pressure but they ran fine at 15 so I left it alone.

In my case would restricting the return lines be needed, if so how do you do it? The lift pump has its own return also for excess fuel not taken by the engines.

I am also thinking about putting a plate under the wastegate diaphragm (2-3mm) to increase the pressure required to open it and let the engines make a little more boost at WOT, not sure if the injection pump will keep up though, I am still under warranty though so I haven't messed with the max speed adj screw or the full load set screw ... yet.

Can you draw a diagram of how all your lines fit together, I hear what you say, but can't see it in my mind?

how can you afford to use the xpower drive for an application with a diesel? seems the cost is close to 90K when the alternatives are less than half of that and are proven to last