42' vs toyota
03-08-2013, 10:03 PM
#31
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One of my biggest pet peeves is the dip **** with the stickers all over the car/truck saying "Support America, buy american" or some stupid chit like that. While it was built in Mex or Can with asian electronics. Or better yet a shared platform with an Asian company. Are people really that ****ing stupid??? Auto industry is global. Sorry to break the news...
Last edited by POWERPLAY J; 03-08-2013 at 10:14 PM.
03-08-2013, 10:19 PM
#32
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03-08-2013, 10:37 PM
#33
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Man, this topic cuts across many lines of political and generational views. I have followed the auto industry for a couple of decades as a hobby. What I see is this. The Japaneese manufactures do not innovate, never have, never will. They HAVE invested alot of resources improving front runners engineering. They also realized that they could perfect reliable basic transportation and capatilize on this in the US when the big 3 were struggling with the same concepts. The time period of reference would be the 70's and 80's. This would be my generation. I beleive in the mid 90's the big 3 had picked up the game but the major US automotive media hubs had been taken over by my generation of anti US manufactured products culture.
Fact is, the Japeneese government assisted their auto manufactures with a peristant currency minipulation. Hard to compete when Honda or Toyota spends 5K more in building a vehicle and charges less. For you japaneese vehicle lovers / big 3 haters, before you attack me, google Japan currency minipulation. It has been going on since the late 80's. Just another reason we should NEVER be in debt to China. Guess who owns the largest percentage of US debt and guess whats coming??
During this same frame of time, the US government allowed Japan to abuse the US auto manufactures with the trade policies. CAT could sell what ever they wanted in Japan but GM could not without huge tarrifs. The cards were stacked against the big 3 and there was no relief by OUR government.
I am doing my best at being civil right now as I have been through this debate many times on far more anti US automotive sights. I find the mentality of US product detractors ignorent at best. SHEEPLE comes to mind when debating these fellows. How many have dug and found out about the cooprporate LIES of Toyota? How about the more than 1 Million trucks affected by frame rust? No joke, dig and you will find out about vehicles breaking in half. The mainstream media burried it. Wounder why? Advertising dollars and a general hatred for US products. Sucks to be a Tacoma lover..
Towing that boat with a any Toyota is a joke. Pulling a heavy load on flat ground is one thing, tow over a couple of mountain passes in traffic at 65 MPH for a couple thousand miles then we can start a conversation. Put 2,500K in the back and drive in the same conditions several times and the conversation can start. Pull that boat for 150K and the conversation can start about being equal to a TRUE 3/4 - 1 ton truck.
Reason Toyota doesnt build a true 3/4 - 1 ton truck? They cant. They have tried for more than a decade and a half and failed. Building the truck in the US and using an obnoxious voice over in the commercials only works for the ignorent. What we have here is a 1/2 ton with light 3/4 ton springs. I will say they have the power, albeit with a high revving dual overhead cam engine which is not optimul for towing fuel economy. Best not bring up tailgates that fold with a couple hundred punds on them, lightweight tourqe convertors that exploded, flattened cams etc. Research before you buy.....isnt that what Honda and Toyota promoted?? We live in an era when you can search for information without bias. Going to the major US rags for information is like going to forigne manufactures website. WTF? Personel opinions dont factor in to these lazy consumers. The media has been against US products for 20 plus years.
Fact is, the Japeneese government assisted their auto manufactures with a peristant currency minipulation. Hard to compete when Honda or Toyota spends 5K more in building a vehicle and charges less. For you japaneese vehicle lovers / big 3 haters, before you attack me, google Japan currency minipulation. It has been going on since the late 80's. Just another reason we should NEVER be in debt to China. Guess who owns the largest percentage of US debt and guess whats coming??
During this same frame of time, the US government allowed Japan to abuse the US auto manufactures with the trade policies. CAT could sell what ever they wanted in Japan but GM could not without huge tarrifs. The cards were stacked against the big 3 and there was no relief by OUR government.
I am doing my best at being civil right now as I have been through this debate many times on far more anti US automotive sights. I find the mentality of US product detractors ignorent at best. SHEEPLE comes to mind when debating these fellows. How many have dug and found out about the cooprporate LIES of Toyota? How about the more than 1 Million trucks affected by frame rust? No joke, dig and you will find out about vehicles breaking in half. The mainstream media burried it. Wounder why? Advertising dollars and a general hatred for US products. Sucks to be a Tacoma lover..
Towing that boat with a any Toyota is a joke. Pulling a heavy load on flat ground is one thing, tow over a couple of mountain passes in traffic at 65 MPH for a couple thousand miles then we can start a conversation. Put 2,500K in the back and drive in the same conditions several times and the conversation can start. Pull that boat for 150K and the conversation can start about being equal to a TRUE 3/4 - 1 ton truck.
Reason Toyota doesnt build a true 3/4 - 1 ton truck? They cant. They have tried for more than a decade and a half and failed. Building the truck in the US and using an obnoxious voice over in the commercials only works for the ignorent. What we have here is a 1/2 ton with light 3/4 ton springs. I will say they have the power, albeit with a high revving dual overhead cam engine which is not optimul for towing fuel economy. Best not bring up tailgates that fold with a couple hundred punds on them, lightweight tourqe convertors that exploded, flattened cams etc. Research before you buy.....isnt that what Honda and Toyota promoted?? We live in an era when you can search for information without bias. Going to the major US rags for information is like going to forigne manufactures website. WTF? Personel opinions dont factor in to these lazy consumers. The media has been against US products for 20 plus years.
03-08-2013, 10:54 PM
#34
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foreign companies providing american jobs my ass. The profits still go back to japan, korea, etc. If we as americans refused to buy their crap and bought american vehicles our production would have to increase and wala!! Who would have thought, we would have to hire more employes and not have to shut down factories. It's just stupid f%^%^ people buying foreign crap. If you're an american buy american. I have never owned a foreign vehicle and i never will.
03-08-2013, 10:59 PM
#35
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Yes I agree Dave, the media is against US products, just how they don't report on how big a dip **** Obama is!!!
03-08-2013, 11:03 PM
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Just watched that vid and came away feeling that my previous post is justified. Poor spelling as usual, but spot on.
For a points of refernce for my opinions, I have owned 5 GM trucks. The 3 pre 90's trucks were under powered but had brakes, transmission coolers and frames that could take 2x what the " advertised" limits were without feeling inadiquite while being overloaded. Watch that vid and tell me that vehicle isnt subsatntially overwelmed.
This is the mark the japanese manufactures consistantly wiff on. How does that limp risted Nissan Titan diff hold up to towing? Google it and find out. Not so well.
The current Tundra seems to be doing OK, for a 1/2 ton. I say this knowing and seeing full well how forigne vehicle owners react to issues with their vehicles. 15 years ago they would have been called excuse makers if they owned a big 3 product and encountered issues.
I say all of this while owning a 2003 3/4 ton HD chevy with a duramax and Allison transmision since it had 30K on it. It now has 156K. It has been a great vehicle, same as most of my 20+ GM vehicles. I dont trade them away with less than 100K miles. My current truck has had a copuple of issues, but I wouldnt think twice about traveling thousands of miles pulling something over 10K pounds anytime, anywhere. It still gets 25 MPG on the highway and no less than 10 MPG towing.
For a points of refernce for my opinions, I have owned 5 GM trucks. The 3 pre 90's trucks were under powered but had brakes, transmission coolers and frames that could take 2x what the " advertised" limits were without feeling inadiquite while being overloaded. Watch that vid and tell me that vehicle isnt subsatntially overwelmed.
This is the mark the japanese manufactures consistantly wiff on. How does that limp risted Nissan Titan diff hold up to towing? Google it and find out. Not so well.
The current Tundra seems to be doing OK, for a 1/2 ton. I say this knowing and seeing full well how forigne vehicle owners react to issues with their vehicles. 15 years ago they would have been called excuse makers if they owned a big 3 product and encountered issues.
I say all of this while owning a 2003 3/4 ton HD chevy with a duramax and Allison transmision since it had 30K on it. It now has 156K. It has been a great vehicle, same as most of my 20+ GM vehicles. I dont trade them away with less than 100K miles. My current truck has had a copuple of issues, but I wouldnt think twice about traveling thousands of miles pulling something over 10K pounds anytime, anywhere. It still gets 25 MPG on the highway and no less than 10 MPG towing.
03-08-2013, 11:23 PM
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I reside in the Seattle area and am a union carpenter by trade. Never been involved with the UAW and witnessed the undressing as GM went belly up. All I can say is dont assume (as most ignorent people do) that unions dont have a place in todays economic invironment. Trade union members work their ass off for their hourly wage. Teachers, UAW etc, maybe not, but skilled tradesman do.
Powerplay, you are the " type" of person that I refernced in my previous posts. Before you assume, do some homework then make a statement with an informed opinion.
If you really do the home work and realize as most do, big 3 trucks are built better, cost less to operate and last longer will you realise you are that stupid for making the comments you have? Will you recognize the hand the US auto industry was dealt by the last 5 presidentual administrations? Will YOU realiize that the world Auto Industry is not globalized when it comes to where the proffits wind up? Ignorence is bliss isnt it. I hate saying this becuase I have seen it used as an excuse. If you go there you have not comprehended what I am articulating.
Powerplay, you are the " type" of person that I refernced in my previous posts. Before you assume, do some homework then make a statement with an informed opinion.
If you really do the home work and realize as most do, big 3 trucks are built better, cost less to operate and last longer will you realise you are that stupid for making the comments you have? Will you recognize the hand the US auto industry was dealt by the last 5 presidentual administrations? Will YOU realiize that the world Auto Industry is not globalized when it comes to where the proffits wind up? Ignorence is bliss isnt it. I hate saying this becuase I have seen it used as an excuse. If you go there you have not comprehended what I am articulating.
03-08-2013, 11:24 PM
#38
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Tundra is a nice light pickup.... but to tow a 42 with it is just plain stupid. Not sure what it weighs, but my 35 Fountian weighs 8500 dry. Add 1000 for fuel, 500 for gear and 2500 for a trailer. That's about 12500 lbs total. That Tundra may be able to tow the space shuttle but it can't tow my 35 Fountain. That 42 Baja has to be 17000 lbs with the trailer, fuel and gear. You really need a dually to tow it safely. Towing capacities are there for a reason. The tongue weight was way too much for that Tundra which is also extremely dangerous, not just for the moron towing more than he should but also everyone else on the road. Get a truck, not a Tundra.
03-08-2013, 11:35 PM
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Quick google search pulls up this - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/10...ust-issue.html
If you spend the time to " actually research" how Toyota handles small issues like this you will find that they denied any defects for 10+ years. Back in the mid 00's their was an article that stated they were forced by the NHTS to buy back almost 2 MILLION, yea, million tacomas becuase of this. My brother tipped me off as he was in a western high desert state and saw the vehicles in a staging area.
Toyota is a media master, keep that in mind when you read reviews in US rags.. Not to mention the japaneese government threatening to dump US debt in the late 90's when a republican senator mentioned the tarrifs put on US auto manufactures products imported to Japan.
If you spend the time to " actually research" how Toyota handles small issues like this you will find that they denied any defects for 10+ years. Back in the mid 00's their was an article that stated they were forced by the NHTS to buy back almost 2 MILLION, yea, million tacomas becuase of this. My brother tipped me off as he was in a western high desert state and saw the vehicles in a staging area.
Toyota is a media master, keep that in mind when you read reviews in US rags.. Not to mention the japaneese government threatening to dump US debt in the late 90's when a republican senator mentioned the tarrifs put on US auto manufactures products imported to Japan.
03-08-2013, 11:52 PM
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Man, theres so much information on the web countering the mainstreem opinions of Toyota longevity / build quality. This an oldy but demonstrates what my previous comments. http://www.google.com/search?q=toyot...w=1366&bih=804
This was happening in the mid 90's yet every media outlet was ripping US products and influencing consumers that were not able to form their own opinions. This **** has been going on for decades yet we have brain washed US citizens that feel that they can come on a mainstreem web site and spew the BS that they think is fact.
I will end my rants with this. My two sons will grow up knowing they can trouble shoot vehicles themselves and that the US still builds things that matter and vehicles are one of those things.
This was happening in the mid 90's yet every media outlet was ripping US products and influencing consumers that were not able to form their own opinions. This **** has been going on for decades yet we have brain washed US citizens that feel that they can come on a mainstreem web site and spew the BS that they think is fact.
I will end my rants with this. My two sons will grow up knowing they can trouble shoot vehicles themselves and that the US still builds things that matter and vehicles are one of those things.
