2 New 500ci. motors underway
04-25-2013, 06:15 PM
#21
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've seen it so many times, where people are attracted to those ''great prices''. And end up wasting a bunch of money, to only have to do it all again, and hopefully get it right the second time. But you're post stating that you ''don't need nothing fancy, and those parts will suit your boating style just fine, and not looking for a bunch of power. ''
Have heard many cases of the valve stems pitting up on these procomp heads, guides being junk after a short time, generic valve seats that can fall out, burn up, etc. Terribly inconsitant machining, decks out as much as .030 out of the box. What kind of boating is that acceptable for? None is the answer.
I would use a eagle crankshaft, i'd use eagle rods, nothing wrong, and in most cases, they're better forgings than stock GM stuff. But the machine work/clearances has to be checked with a fine comb.
Your parts list wasn't very detailed. The ARP fastners and stuff sound great, and comp cams stuff sounds great. But, more important, GM HP block doesn't tell me much. It could be a old Mark IV block from a 1975 Chevy, or a bowtie block from GMPP, or Gen V from a pickup truck core, and yes, this matters. If its a production block as I've said, and its being bored to 4.310, you'll have no room for rebuild and cleanups. If its a new Dart block, why bore it .060 over from the get go? Its not worth the extra few hp in my opinion.
I honestly think you'd be so much better off spending a bit more money, and going with a better QUALITY cylinder head, dart, edelbrock, etc, and some better rocker arms.
Have heard many cases of the valve stems pitting up on these procomp heads, guides being junk after a short time, generic valve seats that can fall out, burn up, etc. Terribly inconsitant machining, decks out as much as .030 out of the box. What kind of boating is that acceptable for? None is the answer.
I would use a eagle crankshaft, i'd use eagle rods, nothing wrong, and in most cases, they're better forgings than stock GM stuff. But the machine work/clearances has to be checked with a fine comb.
Your parts list wasn't very detailed. The ARP fastners and stuff sound great, and comp cams stuff sounds great. But, more important, GM HP block doesn't tell me much. It could be a old Mark IV block from a 1975 Chevy, or a bowtie block from GMPP, or Gen V from a pickup truck core, and yes, this matters. If its a production block as I've said, and its being bored to 4.310, you'll have no room for rebuild and cleanups. If its a new Dart block, why bore it .060 over from the get go? Its not worth the extra few hp in my opinion.
I honestly think you'd be so much better off spending a bit more money, and going with a better QUALITY cylinder head, dart, edelbrock, etc, and some better rocker arms.
spend more now less later.
04-25-2013, 07:13 PM
#22
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Between A Womans Leggs in IL
Posts: 6,306
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
fixx
they are now 3-4miles apart i was just there last month. But at one time Skip White who is Fred's nephew sold parts out his building but has since moved to his own location. They do not affiliate them selves with them any more i dont know the details on that. I do know Fred can build a good reliable engine and use what ever parts you want him to, china USA whatever. the East stone drive location is Whites performance machine. Your facts may be a little old
04-26-2013, 09:03 AM
#23
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not here trying to beat you up on your choice, just giving some insight, or at least attempting to. And the reason is this
Have been here on oso for almost 10 years, and other boating forums before that. Not to mention been playing with boats and engines since I was in high school.
I've seen it so many times, where people are attracted to those ''great prices''. And end up wasting a bunch of money, to only have to do it all again, and hopefully get it right the second time. But you're post stating that you ''don't need nothing fancy, and those parts will suit your boating style just fine, and not looking for a bunch of power. ''
Have heard many cases of the valve stems pitting up on these procomp heads, guides being junk after a short time, generic valve seats that can fall out, burn up, etc. Terribly inconsitant machining, decks out as much as .030 out of the box. What kind of boating is that acceptable for? None is the answer.
I would use a eagle crankshaft, i'd use eagle rods, nothing wrong, and in most cases, they're better forgings than stock GM stuff. But the machine work/clearances has to be checked with a fine comb.
Your parts list wasn't very detailed. The ARP fastners and stuff sound great, and comp cams stuff sounds great. But, more important, GM HP block doesn't tell me much. It could be a old Mark IV block from a 1975 Chevy, or a bowtie block from GMPP, or Gen V from a pickup truck core, and yes, this matters. If its a production block as I've said, and its being bored to 4.310, you'll have no room for rebuild and cleanups. If its a new Dart block, why bore it .060 over from the get go? Its not worth the extra few hp in my opinion.
I honestly think you'd be so much better off spending a bit more money, and going with a better QUALITY cylinder head, dart, edelbrock, etc, and some better rocker arms.
Have been here on oso for almost 10 years, and other boating forums before that. Not to mention been playing with boats and engines since I was in high school.
I've seen it so many times, where people are attracted to those ''great prices''. And end up wasting a bunch of money, to only have to do it all again, and hopefully get it right the second time. But you're post stating that you ''don't need nothing fancy, and those parts will suit your boating style just fine, and not looking for a bunch of power. ''
Have heard many cases of the valve stems pitting up on these procomp heads, guides being junk after a short time, generic valve seats that can fall out, burn up, etc. Terribly inconsitant machining, decks out as much as .030 out of the box. What kind of boating is that acceptable for? None is the answer.
I would use a eagle crankshaft, i'd use eagle rods, nothing wrong, and in most cases, they're better forgings than stock GM stuff. But the machine work/clearances has to be checked with a fine comb.
Your parts list wasn't very detailed. The ARP fastners and stuff sound great, and comp cams stuff sounds great. But, more important, GM HP block doesn't tell me much. It could be a old Mark IV block from a 1975 Chevy, or a bowtie block from GMPP, or Gen V from a pickup truck core, and yes, this matters. If its a production block as I've said, and its being bored to 4.310, you'll have no room for rebuild and cleanups. If its a new Dart block, why bore it .060 over from the get go? Its not worth the extra few hp in my opinion.
I honestly think you'd be so much better off spending a bit more money, and going with a better QUALITY cylinder head, dart, edelbrock, etc, and some better rocker arms.
I understand your concern and it is greatly appreciated. The blocks are the blocks that came in the fountain. They were the only matching thing on the whole combo. On the heads, if they are not flat then they will be decked. I will trust in Freds to make sure of this.
On the rocker arms I was up in the air about them. Since the seat pressures were not going to be to high for my camshaft choice like needed for a blower motor or nasty solid cam setup, I decided they will work fine.
Again, you can have $60,000 engine or a $6000.00 engine and get 3hrs of run time and it break. Its just the nature of the beast.
Last edited by Fountainfunatic; 04-26-2013 at 09:15 AM.
05-27-2014, 12:47 PM
#24
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys and gals.its been awhile since I have posted on the engines and our boat. I have had a few pm's with people asking about them so here is the update. When we dropped the motors off last year it was late in the year and basicly told Fred who is the owner to take is time and make sure the engines are perfect. Keep in mind this is the 3rd time they have been built in a year by others to no avail! Fred has been great to deal with through out the whole build! Towards the end of last year I injured my back and had to have back surgery. I told Fred to just take there time since now I am out of commission for a little while and won't be able to do anything with the boat for a few months. Fast forward to this week. Btw my back is back to like I never had a issue! Current status is both motors are completed and both make appx. 650hp each. 4weeks ago we took our boat up to them to have them install the motors and upgrade the oil cooling system and water cooling system since they both were designed for stock motors. Fred and the gang have been very good to deal with and they haven't steered us wrong. Once the motors are installed and running in the boat Fred is going to take us to the local lake by them and water test it to make sure there is no issues and if anything pops up they can fix before we take complete delivery! All in all Fred and the gang have been great to deal with have done everything they said they would do for us! We are this weekend the boat will be ready for the water test as we are anxious to get her back!
08-11-2014, 10:28 PM
#25
Registered
iTrader: (1)
ok from what i see and looking at both websites and looking at google with the address's and from talking to a friend on mine that has been their you can walk out of skip whites performance machine shop rite next door to white performance over the counter performance parts..3349 and 3353 are rite next door to each other with maybe a shop in between.. not knocking the guy just posting facts thats all..
I believe uncle (engine builder / machinist) and nephew. Nephew's 'cyl head machinist' is uncle.
Someone disprove it. I will listen.
Nephew is who brought Procomp into US Ebay existence (Procomp has commited many acts of fraud (MSD/Dart/and etc) and this has been proven in US court. Look up MSD's 'win' against them.
I can't answer on how well they build engines but I wouldn't give them a chance too.
They have pimped fraudulent parts to thousands of unknowing people and that just isn't right. It's immoral.
Call me a azzhole. I don't care. I can sleep at night.
Last edited by SB; 08-11-2014 at 10:55 PM.
08-11-2014, 10:49 PM
#26
Registered
iTrader: (3)
SB, everything is always "so awesome". until of course, the engines dont perform like they should, you find out you paid for Scat Rods and got Pro comps, paid for a 4340 crank and got a cast crank etc.
They have done an excellent job at attracting the "thrifty" guys thru ebay. Guys flock to them because they think white's is 1 step ahead of everyone else, how he can build super awesome engines for half the price of others. And his nephew skip selling parts so cheap....such a deal. These threads about "white's performance" really perk up alot of ear's from the peanut gallery. Everyones seen their super low prices, everyone wants in on the good deal. So before ya know it, the PM's start flying. "Hey, hows that super cheap 500HP white perf engine running for you? Im very interested but dont wanna buy junk, but dont wanna spend alot of money either".
You go on BBB and they have a great score of an "F", on a rating from A+ thru F.
I've noticed oso is now filled with members who love to talk about how great their engine builder is, how great their cam guy is, how great their carb guy is, what parts you should be using, what the best oil to run is, but their custom personal engine has not even fired for the first time yet.
A good friend of mine a while back, had a pair of 800HP blower engines built for his boat. Once the builder installed them, rigged them, etc, him and the builder went out for the sea trial. My buddy drove the boat. They cruised around for a bit letting things warm up to temp. After a little while, my buddy pushes the sticks down to wot, and lets off after a 10 seconds. His builder leans over and said, "What you doing??" My buddy says "Well they are new engines I dont wanna break them". The builders reply was "run these fukers wide open and I'll tell you when to let off the throttles". "After about 15 minutes of 6000RPM, builder says, "She's good to go, better let off since we are running out of gas".
Dyno pulls are NOTt a testament to a good engine build. Come back and slap azzes and throw high 5's after a couple hundred hours of a good beating with no issues.
They have done an excellent job at attracting the "thrifty" guys thru ebay. Guys flock to them because they think white's is 1 step ahead of everyone else, how he can build super awesome engines for half the price of others. And his nephew skip selling parts so cheap....such a deal. These threads about "white's performance" really perk up alot of ear's from the peanut gallery. Everyones seen their super low prices, everyone wants in on the good deal. So before ya know it, the PM's start flying. "Hey, hows that super cheap 500HP white perf engine running for you? Im very interested but dont wanna buy junk, but dont wanna spend alot of money either".
You go on BBB and they have a great score of an "F", on a rating from A+ thru F.
I've noticed oso is now filled with members who love to talk about how great their engine builder is, how great their cam guy is, how great their carb guy is, what parts you should be using, what the best oil to run is, but their custom personal engine has not even fired for the first time yet.
A good friend of mine a while back, had a pair of 800HP blower engines built for his boat. Once the builder installed them, rigged them, etc, him and the builder went out for the sea trial. My buddy drove the boat. They cruised around for a bit letting things warm up to temp. After a little while, my buddy pushes the sticks down to wot, and lets off after a 10 seconds. His builder leans over and said, "What you doing??" My buddy says "Well they are new engines I dont wanna break them". The builders reply was "run these fukers wide open and I'll tell you when to let off the throttles". "After about 15 minutes of 6000RPM, builder says, "She's good to go, better let off since we are running out of gas".
Dyno pulls are NOTt a testament to a good engine build. Come back and slap azzes and throw high 5's after a couple hundred hours of a good beating with no issues.
08-11-2014, 10:59 PM
#27
Registered
iTrader: (1)
And Marketing/Advertising is not a testament to good parts !
Procomp is a fraudelent company. Those selling these parts know it. This is not new News. And it's public record.
I have to leave this thread and subject - it burns my azz !!!!!!!
Procomp is a fraudelent company. Those selling these parts know it. This is not new News. And it's public record.
I have to leave this thread and subject - it burns my azz !!!!!!!
08-11-2014, 11:11 PM
#28
Registered
iTrader: (3)
You cant leave now. Do you want me to build you a sweet engine? It will make 600HP. Have all great brand new forged internals and awesome cylinder heads with fortune cookies in the intake ports. Make your boat fast. I been doing this 39 years. I can have the engine delivered to your door for 4995 ready to run with my custom sweet and sour HEI distributor.. Just make sure you click the positive feedback button before you turn the key please.
08-11-2014, 11:24 PM
#29
Registered
iTrader: (1)
There's more than this out there, but here are a few notables:
Good night all.
MSD Ignition has obtained a permanent federal injunction against Procomp Electronics, Inc. Procomp manufactured an ignition that was confusingly similar in appearance to the well-known red housing of MSD’s 6AL Ignition Control. With more and more infringement in the aftermarket, MSD’s top brass got fed up and took the matter to the courts.
In the end, a permanent injunction was granted. This means that “Procomp, including its parent company, subsidiaries, divisions, affiliated, successors and assigns, and any person acting in concert with them are immediately prohibited from manufacturing, selling, distributing, marketing or offering any ignition or similar product that utilizes a design identical to or otherwise confusingly similar to” the design of MSD’s labels or the design of the distinctive housing of MSD’s Ignition controls, including MSD’s 6AL Ignition Control.
In the end, a permanent injunction was granted. This means that “Procomp, including its parent company, subsidiaries, divisions, affiliated, successors and assigns, and any person acting in concert with them are immediately prohibited from manufacturing, selling, distributing, marketing or offering any ignition or similar product that utilizes a design identical to or otherwise confusingly similar to” the design of MSD’s labels or the design of the distinctive housing of MSD’s Ignition controls, including MSD’s 6AL Ignition Control.
Automotive Racing Products = ARP Bolts
Sues Procomp Motorsports for Trademark Infringement
inShare
| More Sharing ServicesShare
trademark-attorney-car-automotive-bolts-infringement.jpgLos Angeles, CA - Automotive Racing Products manufactures a wide range of bolts, fasteners, and other parts and accessories for automobiles. In 1975, Plaintiff began using the ARP trademark, which was registered with the USPTO on January 19, 1988. Plaintiff is also the owner of the "2000" trademark, which was registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on February 10, 2004. Plaintiff alleges that its 2000 and ARP trademarks have become well-known in the automotive industry.
Beginning in 2008, Defendants are accused of selling bolts marked with a "2000" label and the bolts were made to look like Plaintiff's products. Plaintiff also alleges that Defendants falsely represented that their infringing bolts were ARP bolts. Plaintiff contends that Defendants were fully aware of Plaintiff's trademarks and have intentionally infringed the marks to unjustly benefit from Plaintiff's reputation. Plaintiff asserts causes of action for trademark infringement, unfair competition under both the Lanham Act and Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code 17200, and unjust enrichment. The case is Automotive Racing Products, Inc. and Procomp Electronics, Inc., CV10-02884 MRP (C.D. Cal. 2010).
Sues Procomp Motorsports for Trademark Infringement
inShare
| More Sharing ServicesShare
trademark-attorney-car-automotive-bolts-infringement.jpgLos Angeles, CA - Automotive Racing Products manufactures a wide range of bolts, fasteners, and other parts and accessories for automobiles. In 1975, Plaintiff began using the ARP trademark, which was registered with the USPTO on January 19, 1988. Plaintiff is also the owner of the "2000" trademark, which was registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on February 10, 2004. Plaintiff alleges that its 2000 and ARP trademarks have become well-known in the automotive industry.
Beginning in 2008, Defendants are accused of selling bolts marked with a "2000" label and the bolts were made to look like Plaintiff's products. Plaintiff also alleges that Defendants falsely represented that their infringing bolts were ARP bolts. Plaintiff contends that Defendants were fully aware of Plaintiff's trademarks and have intentionally infringed the marks to unjustly benefit from Plaintiff's reputation. Plaintiff asserts causes of action for trademark infringement, unfair competition under both the Lanham Act and Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code 17200, and unjust enrichment. The case is Automotive Racing Products, Inc. and Procomp Electronics, Inc., CV10-02884 MRP (C.D. Cal. 2010).
Edelbrock Corporation v. Procomp Electronics Inc.
Filed: March 21, 2008 as 2:2008cv01915
Plaintiff: Edelbrock Corporation, Edelbrock Corporation
Defendant: Procomp Electronics Inc.
Cause Of Action: Trademark Infringement
Court: Ninth Circuit > California > California Central District Court
Type: Intellectual Property > Trademark
Filed: March 21, 2008 as 2:2008cv01915
Plaintiff: Edelbrock Corporation, Edelbrock Corporation
Defendant: Procomp Electronics Inc.
Cause Of Action: Trademark Infringement
Court: Ninth Circuit > California > California Central District Court
Type: Intellectual Property > Trademark
Last edited by SB; 08-11-2014 at 11:27 PM.
08-13-2014, 09:11 AM
#30
MarineKinetics
Platinum Member
