Checkmate Shut Down
 

Tough news, Checkmate Shut Down.

No one knows if this means the end game for Checkmate. But for now here's an update with confirmation beyond the rumor mill.

Sad News, 50 years was a milestone, Lots of them made 6000-7000 hulls built. Baja leadership.. like leaving large inheritance and broke in 5 years

Another boat company on the ropes.
Thank you very much President Obama!

.???really??

I wouldn't put all the blame on pres. OBAMA but he definitely isnt doing us any favors right now. I know he can't change the world but he does have the power to talk and influence the people and he shur doesn't have us in his mind right now. Just my .02 cents.

Also it's a very sad thing to hear about checkmate I hope things turn around and can come back on the market again.

It's the economy...many people are living paycheck to paycheck and a new boat is nowhere in sight. The desire is there...just no money to pay for it.

Care to explain what you're stating ?

Wow that sucks! Wish them the best of luck getting new orders to re open the doors!

The housing crash and boat crash inwhich not many lenders would even give out a boat loan to most even if you had great credit happen when Bush was in office. Anyways I got out of new boat sales 2 years ago as it really has not got better. IMO Checkmate of late was on a hope that the market would turn around. Here is another fact. For 2012 all I/O sales were so bad as the lowest of all time. Volvo and Mercruiser total I/O engine / drive package sales for new boat builds only total 38,000 to 39,000 thats it.
As of late many rec I/O builders are trying to come out with new products to boost sales for them. Case in point jet boats like Yamaha builds. Sea Ray has 2 models for this year and Glastron / Four Winns coming out with Scarab version and so is Chapparel coming out with jet boats. Sales for certain new boats are really bad and for sportboarts they are the worst.

Its a culture shift. Everyone is happy with less or nothing because it is marketed to them this way. Life I mean.

Look at the amount of people watching TV on their small ass cell phone. All I can do is shake my head.

what would a liberal say
 

Its Bushes fault!

kind of helps lay to rest the thread where it was speculated that high performance boat builders were making money hand over fist and just raping the consumer because they could get away with it

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...expensive.html

as if Fountain, Baja, and Donzi going under along with the Pantera hijinks and the Frisini hijinks was not enough to show that boatign was not a massive profit business right now

and government regulation is killing all industries right now and that is part of the issue.....if we could just free the capital that is wasted making sure that everyone and everything falls in line with government asshatery there would be billions and billions (probably tens to hundreds of billions) out there to be spent on something useful, productive, or even *gasp* fun!.......instead it is wasted on silly posters to put up next to the time clock reminding the drones to follow the rules or to sue you for not following the rules and even worse paying some dickhead to come around and inspect that the poster is in place, the words are the right size, font and color and it is in the proper 38 languages with the exact correct verbiage (verbal diarrhea)

I was looking the other day at LED running lights that could be put in the rub rail of a boat.....they are not available (well one brand is that mounts around the rub rail and protrudes out to easily get torn off/smashed) but the ones that actually mount in the rub rail are *gasp* not USCG approved.....even though they are MUCH brighter than most incandescent, much less prone to burning out,look pretty cool (style is not important only conforming) and many game wardens in various states were telling fresh water boaters in non-navigable waters how cool their lights looked, how much brighter they were and how well they functioned and that they would never be writing them a ticket for those lights......of course none of that is in writing, it is up to the individual officer and the USCG does not give a damn about any of that so if the coasties catch you then you are getting a ticket.....not to mention that many of the standard running lights are now only good for boats built before 2003.....because apparently unbeknownst to anyone with their head out of their ass there must have been a massive amount of ships and large boats running over idiots in small boats with poor running lights or the inability to see BIG ASS SHIP and to move out of the way before BIG ASS SHIP ran their dumb asses over.....so yea we ALL (well all that actually pay taxes) paid for some clowns that should be swabbing toilets to come up with new running light standards for navigable waters so we can prevent the death of the 3-4 (probably drunken complete idiots) that managed to run their 80mph flats boat into the side of a tanker or cargo ship...and somehow they failed to take LEDs into account in the new standards......because why look to the future when doing revisions to garbage rules why not do them retroactively in a reactionary fashion

if we could just take the books of rules and regulations, the workplace safety posters and the idiots that come up with them and inspect them and burn them to keep warm next winter we would all be so much better off...and probably warmer since by next winter surely some new rules and regulations will run up the price of heating in all forms and energy in general

Impressive rant dude! :evilb:

+1

Its pretty simple in my eyes. 10 years ago, when it seemed that EVERY ONE had a boat, it was because ANYONE that wanted a boat could get one....even if they couldn't afford it. The banks were so willing to finance, a boat or a house became an IMPULSE buy, and I know of many that had shaky credit but some how still got what they wanted at that time. Bottom line, there are a ton of people that would still be making bad decisions and buying boats they can not afford, if the banks would let them.

Spot on

I called this years ago with the interest only loans and 110% financing banks were doing.

It actually ended up worse because of all the programs put in place to help the people out.

Responsible for our own actions???? God forbid !!!

The lethargic economy is obamas fault and that is a major factor in the boat business. obama is presiding over the worst/slowest economic recovery in history. Additional business regulations and taxes, his expansion of the public/gov't sector at the expense of private business is backwards and not what made this country great. When people wake up to the fact that the dollar is worth less every day as the government prints 80 billion plus new dollars each month and your stock therefore isn't doing as well as you thought, maybe we'll have a change.

But it's so much easier to blame others......or put it all on one man. Every time I hear someone say they don't have something, or they're not making it in life because of the economy or a single man such as a president I just laugh. The down turn in the economy exposed the businesses and people that were living beyond their means. The hard workers, thinkers, planners, and responsible ones just kept plugging along.

BTW I am not a fan of the current president, or the past president, or any politician in general. I think our entire gov't needs a make over. But I would never blame "them" If I couldn't fulfill my financial obligations.

Yes, you're correct. I've been hearing a lot of Quicken Loans Co.advertisements for home equity loans again.
ed

2 things that are sad in this thread,1 boat builder bites the dust 2 someone turns it into a political thread.on a side note,the stock market hit an all time high so i guess we can credit obama with that,or maybe bush did it.4bus hit the nail on the head,no more loans to people who can not repay them.

Tell that to our Mercedes dealership salesmen ! They can't keep enough cars in stock and they're building a brand new BMW showroom. MTI, Nortech & Cigarette are building boats. Again, I think the problem with Checkmate is the middle class has less access to reckless spending which translates to bad times for manufactures of material item i.e. boats, motorcycles, campers etc.

the stock market is disconnected from what is actually going on with the USA economy and the average person on the street....not because the average person on the street does not own stocks, but because US companies are making a large portion of their profits overseas, productivity is at an all time high, large companies that have access to capital or that have saved capital for the rough times are able to borrow at extremely low rates and or spend on equipment at a relatively low cost and then further increase productivity and lastly banks and financial companies and others are able to borrow at the fed discount window for zero or near zero and take that cash and invest it in commodities and stocks and equipment to increase productivity per worker and make huge returns on that because of course it is extremely difficult to lose money when you are borrowing for zero or next to no cost especially when you are taking that borrowed money and using it to make inflationary investments that drive up the prices and profits of the things you have invested in......while the average person on the street either can't borrow because they are not credit worthy or if they can borrow it is at high pay day lender rates or credit card rates

and yes the type of people that own high performance boats (after the financial melt down) and can actually still AFFORD to do so are going to be able to take advantage of those opportunities to a degree, but those right below them and those that are lower income, but slightly responsible with finances, are not able to drive the lower end of the economy because they are squeezed between banks not wanting to lend because of concerns over default, the increasing cost of goods like $55K 3/4 ton trucks, and the fact that a bank or lender can make 500% more money off of borrowing at zero and dumping right into commodities and stocks VS lending to responsible lower income borrowers at 6-7% and at rates over 6-7% financially responsible borrowers will not be subjected to interest rates that drive the cost of a $55K 3/4 ton truck to close to $100K before the damn thing gets paid off.....same thing with an $80K Tige or Mastercraft...they will buy a jet ski....one of those turd boiling "jet boats" or they will just do something else with their money perhaps even save it and earn next to no return on it because even though banks borrow at 0 from the fed they pay 0 on most savings accounts.....and savings rates have increased (surprisingly) in the USA over the last few years

so it is the financially responsible lower end consumer that has had their throat slashed by stupid government economic policies that are trying to keep from slashing the throats of the financially idiotic and irresponsible because of course the financially irresponsible and idiotic vote like morons for "freebies" and give aways and they do not care about the real economy, inflation, economic harm for the long term or really anything because they are always going to be an irresponsible worthless idiot and their answer to that is to vote for people that give them handouts and tell them that those handouts are coming off the backs of "the rich" while the reality is they are coming off the backs and slitting the throats of their financially responsible neighbors while "the rich" just continue to sell goods and services that people can't do without or they continue to move capital from bubble to bubble leaving the devastation and inflation in their wake

because we live in a country of fools that do would not be able to be "rich" if you gave them a billion dollars (and in fact most that win 1-100+ million in the lotto or that make large paychecks for putting a ball through a hoop end up broke) because they understand nothing about managing money or anything other than take in and consume all you can and then when you run out blame others and vilify those that have saved or produced and try and implement policies that take from them for more foolish consumption by idiots...while failing to understand that even if you live in a society that only is a "sustenance" society there are still going to be those that control the mean sof production or the distribution of the production and those are going to be the ones that are "equal" but just "more equal" than everyone else......like mad bob mugabie or kim jung ****head or vlad putin and his oligarch buddies....but who cares as long as everyone you really rub elbows with is in the toilet like you and those in power vilify those that are not in the toilet and promise to take from them for your benefit like algore the 200million dollar environmental activist that tells everyone the evils of consumption and use while he himself consumes and hoards all his fat little ass can possibly get his grubby little molesting hands on or john ignore my yacht is in a tax haven one state over from where I live, but YOU pay more taxes kerry

I hate to say it because it drives me crazy, and I don't understand it, but go fast boats are not half as popular as they was just 10 years ago. Middle and lower upper class people are not buying them, but they are spending there money on boats, the lakes around here are covered up with $50,000 to $100,000 wakeboard boats. and tons of newer 21 to 26 bowriders. From what I see on the lakes around here the market has changed. A lot of people love to see go fast boats and I get looks and people talkin about my boat at all the marinas I stop at , but its not what they go out and buy.

I will take a stab in the dark and suggest that people like us that have fast boats also like to work on them and have some mechanical apptitude,(gearheads) Maybe the people that buy wakeboard boats etc. dont want a boat that requires them to have some mechanical knowledge. They just take them to the dealer for service. Most people I have met with wakeboard boats and the like dont know chit about working on them,the people that have boats like ours do most of or all of their own work and take pride in it. My .02

I grew up learning how to fix my own chit. I think alot of people these days are not interested in learning how to fix things themselves. The backyard mechanic seems like a dieing breed.

All boat sales are down. Performance boats have always been out numbered by more useful boats, always. My local marina sold 80 new pontoon boats this spring, I don't think they are stealing the performance boat crowd however. Wake boarders, skiiers, blow boaters....not the same crowd.

Performance boaters are high risk. How many cruisers went back to the bank stripped of power and drives when the market crashed? Would one pull the small block v-drive out of a wake board boat going back to the bank? Rare. So getting a loan on a $80k new wake board boat will be easier than a used $80k performance boat, cruisers as well.

Insurance companies also noticed fraud attempts were much higher with performance boaters than other types when the market crashed, raising our insurance costs and again throwing more red flags to the banks.

Manufactures also lived beyond their means, with ridiculous debt and nearly no assets, the fact that checkmate stayed alive this long shows they at least had balanced books.


The builders can point the finger to the consumers, we are still feeling the effects of the bad appples.

I think It's gas prices that are killing the market. At 4.50 plus on the water and rising to who knows what in the next 5-10 years. This is where blame Obama comes into play. If we had an administration that was into cheap energy instead of windmills and solar cells then people might take a chance and buy a large boat again. As it is I'm paying 300.00 a month to air condition my house and 400.00 a month to heat it in the winter and both will double if Obama has his way. Now it costs 200.00 to take my boat out for an afternoon, will it be 400.00 in a couple of years? One of my friends that boats said he would rather buy something nice for his grandkids for that much money.

Here's a broader perspective/commentary on the Checkmate situation from the offshoreonly.com home page, Checkmate for Checkmate? | OffshoreOnly.com ? Powerboating Online.

Here's where I think many may overlook a simple concept that is repeated time and time again by Matt and also reiterated by Scott.

Looking at the market, due to depreciation, the cost of owning a used powerboat which is not only larger but with more power is becoming less with every passing year. To this point, to an extent, there is a level of "surplus" with regards to used powerboats within the same price point as the new single boats.

So, for those who have the financial means, where would you put your 80-100k? New single 30ft or a used 35ft with twin 525s? I think that's a pretty easy question to answer assuming the used vessel meets the expectations of the buyers. While we all clearly understand we are not in this sport/hobby for the investment value itself, we are however in it to get the best bang for our buck.

This leads me to my point; there has always been and always will be the law of diminishing returns. Sooner or later the supply, quality, and value of the used market will run dry and to that end, who will be around to supply the product that the market is looking for?

Maybe the demographics of the market are shifting in its entirety. Who knows, wakeboard boats may be our new future. While I grew up with watersports I made the shift to powerboats and am so raising my daughter around what I love hoping that she too shares the same interests. Would I get out of the powerboat market because she wants to wakeboard? Nope. I'd find a way to have both!

Wow, more blaming of others.....why not focus on what you can control. Change or improve your financial situation so you can afford the things that you want. Can't afford to heat and cool your home, buy something more efficient. I live in NY which is much higher than your area, and my utilities are not nearly that high. Gas too much for your boat, maybe consider finding something a little smaller than that giant Black Thunder, wtf? If your friend can spend money on boating and buy something nice for the kids then guess what......he can not afford to own a boat, plain and simple. Your post says democrat all over it, yet you are blaming a democrat. Don't expect a politician to make things easier for you, unless you are on welfare.

Again, I am not a dem, or a reb. But I am learned in life there is always a way. Never stop trying to improve. Don't focus on things you can't control. And for gods sake stop blaming others....it will only make you bitter. Enjoy life

Always amazed at the number of experts on topics like these.

Here is the demographic issue:
The typical NEW Checkmate buyer (typical, not every single one)...
... is NOT a cash buyer. He or she is a buyer who would need a loan on said boat.
Recreational lending is practically non-existent; and if it is available to you; normal terms are 20-30% of purchase price down in cash... AND...

BIG AND...

still have another 20-30% of the purchase price in liquid cash form in some portion of your portfolio; AFTER you stroke the down payment check.

If you can't meet the above terms, you are not buying an extended loan (read 20-year mortgage type of loan) on an RV, boat, airplane, or other high ticket item.

That's what has affected Checkmate's new business orders. And they are obviously not the only ones.

It always makes me laugh when the "go to" answer for all that ails the world is: "it's obama's fault".

Get ahold of yourselves fellas, Hillary is up next and the right wing has no hope in fielding a legitimate opponent. Chew on that folks.
:eekdrop:

Simple stuff. :D

As for checkmate..... Some of the more intellectual members here recognize that the lack of financing is responsible for the downfall of checkmate and I agree.

Marketing in this country is killing everything, and I'm not just talking about manufactured things i also mean entertainment, government, every aspect of our lives. Use to be things stood on their own merit, anymore things stand on what they can get you to believe or hope for. . . . .:angry-smiley-055:

:lolhit::stooges::daz:

Left, right, it doesn't matter. It's all the same thing.

The last 5 years has been the perfect storm for performance boating. It is EVERYTHING mentioned.


Though the crushing economic circumstances speak for themselves, I think the sport will be hard pressed to battle back against the demographic and cultural/social shifts that face America in general. People are less self-reliant and more apt to take the path of least resistance - everyone on this website can attest to the fact that doesn't lend itself to owning a go-fast boat; even in the best of times they are a lot of work. People have no interest in spending their weekend pulling engines out to replace a swivel seal - they would rather spend it dicking around on their i-pad. Even those that do want to be out on the water are probably going to go buy a $4k jet ski, put $20 in fuel in it and run 70MPH all day long.

I blame it on the Sequester(sp)

I won't be voting for Hilary. But at east she's a democrat. Not a socialist Muslim.