Originally Posted by jmoore1225 (Post 3991932)

Everyone in this 10 or so mile stretch from the start to where the wreck occurred "ALL" know there is a run going on.

Originally Posted by VtSteve (Post 3991934)

There's no way of knowing what percentage of people are on one side or the other when it comes to the racing aspect of poker runs, speeds, and whether spectators are ruining anyone's fun. Some of the comments in the past about boat wakes and spectators being the problem would make 99% of boaters shake their heads. I'm leaning towards the attitude and ego aspect more than anything else. Many that go to poker runs think they are all opportunities to do what you want when you want, and how you want. It's presumed by some that if you have a $500,000 plus boat with massive power, you should be treated just like the rockstar that trashes his hotel room.

Thankfully, this thread has shown that they are apparently in the minority of the minority now. Because if some of the comments here were printed in the news, or worse, on TV, these events would be shutdown much quicker than what is already happening. What is happening on inland lakes, for those that don't know, is that everyday boaters are being routinely restricted more and more because of these events. Lakes that don't have them, don't want them. Some have instituted speed limits that make bowrider owners cry, some have gone to size and/or weight restrictions. (I'll be the first to nominate the typical bowrider with a tube in tow as one of the most dangerous people in the country). But people don't care about that as much, because they stay lower profile.

Whomever is in charge of these events, or in charge of approving them, has probably heard from detractors many times. There are many performance boaters that have voiced their own concerns about safety, and it's happening more frequently. As much fun as speed may be, it's not so much fun to realize someone just blew by you at over 100 mph inside of 20 feet. Some have said the boats were too close to the poker runners, which in some videos, would mean anywhere near the lake itself, much less actually On the water.

Some have been thoughtful enough to continually ask people to be more alert, slow down when possible, and realize these aren't races. Many realize that nothing's changed, and soon their own fun will be impaired. Because of the reckless nature of some of these boats on open, public bodies of water, many people with boats that are significantly slower, and/or are far more courteous and safer operators, will have to pay the price as well. Inland waterways won't set speed limits of 100 mph, they will set limits lower than 50, spurred on by those that hate most powerboats anyway. The noise patrols will become the next limit (as is already the case in most areas). There are still some fun poker runs left where people view them as social get togethers, fun boating weekends.

I guess where I lost any faith at all is when someone compared a spectator's boat that was buzzed by as an obstacle, and equated it to laying on your couch in the middle of a racetrack. Comments like that are constantly pointed to by people that hate performance boats, and by their lawyers as well. Everyone knows these poker runs are competitive races with little in the way of rules. Now they can read comments about how other boats on public waterways are obstacles. They probably don't realize how important these people are, and that piloting a boat at 160 mph is made more difficult when anyone else is on the lake. Those comments don't go over well with the vast majority of boaters, or the general public.

There are some great people here trying their darndest to give some pretty good advice. Nobody's proposed anything overly restrictive, nothing onerous, nothing really harsh at all. Think of these people as your best buddies in life. They also have selfish reasons for sure, because they know that it won't be long before you ruin their boating life. As some have said, you need to take their advice soon. The alternatives will be far, far more harsh. The alternatives will lessen powerboating not only for other performance boaters, but for a vast majority of boaters nationwide. I can pretty much guarantee you nobody's going to be polishing anyone's halo after that happens.

Originally Posted by 44MTI (Post 3991912)

While can agree with some of what your saying, I must out of respect for Brad and Jeff disagree on this point. It was not a miss judgement per-say to cross behind PP. They really had no good choices. It was a desicion made in a split second. If you watch both videos, many of us have the opinion that they saw the boat crossing the channel left to right and thought they were on a direct path with them, and that they could not go further right to miss them because of the floating cruzer in the first video. That only left slowing and trying to cross PP's wake which unfortunatly forced them to lift on the throttles. Which also gave them more bow lift when they hit his wake.
Just a really bad day and some really bad luck all at the same time. For which we will all sorely miss two great guys

Originally Posted by Kelly O (Post 3991968)

This is my take :
When I go to take part in a Poker Run, it is because I want to run together with similar-level performance boats.
I know we are on public waterways and that will cause all of us entered in the event to be required to take the safety of the general public into foremost consideration.
I also know that at some point I need my fellow poker runners to take my safety into consideration as well.
Therefore, if my fellow runners and I encounter say, a boat in the middle of the course, I expect all guys running near me to lift off the throttle while maintaining control of their boat. Especially when big power and roostertails are involved- boats coming behind see the tails drop down and they know to slow down themselves or take other precaution, this can be noticed from miles behind as a signal to slow down.
Should I need to take serious evasive action, at least I would not have the additional danger of the roost to contend with.

In the accident which spurred this most-current debate, I keep wishing that the boat that made it past (the obstacle of the boat 'in the way') had been more aware of other poker runners around them.

Recognize the dangers not only to yourself but to all others running with you. i.e.: spectator boat entering intended path
Take actions to preserve your safety but also help others to preserve their own safety. i.e.: lift out of the throttle
Give 'your friends' some room to help them avoid an accident, while giving yourself an escape route also. i.e.: change your path if possible to give others room to avoid oncoming danger, even though you may be able to make it past yourself without a path change.

Back to the most recent tragedy, I just wish both boats had lifted off the throttles enough so that dealing with the effects of the roostertail would have been avoided. I can't help but believe it would have made a difference.

Originally Posted by jmoore1225 (Post 3991889)

Flame away keyboard cowboys......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NGi5yU0FOs&sns=em

Originally Posted by TexasVines (Post 3991944)

why because one cost 1.4 million and another cost 600K and a Cessna with autopilot can cost 60K

and cars that cost half of what some cat boats cost have adjustable wings on them

here you can get a computer controlled suspension on a 30K motorcycle

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/...-ar154601.html'

here 7K for a computer controlled dynamic split wing that is able to take a track map in it

http://www.breathlessperformance.com...productId=1130

just because some boat builders can't or won't find a way to get in contact with those that have a clue does not mean all do not need to be that way

and there is computer controlled active suspension on cars that cost under 100K

what is that.....well it is a dynamic feedback system that functions to react fast enough to make a decision that will be carried out quick enough to make a difference in ride quality while going down the road at highway speeds.....and you will of course say well a caddy does not go 150+.......yes but a Lotus race car that the system was originally developed for does go 150+ and the down force for those cars (with an active wing) and the suspension for them need to react in real time with very high speeds being driven

so the time is here when racing components are moving from the track to consumer products and there is no reason that boats need to be any different other than people like to believe or like to have their boat builders be stupid, lazy, and behind the times and keep things on the cheap

Originally Posted by TexasVines (Post 3991956)

so a boat builder building a 150+ mph boat that cost 500K or 600K can't find a way to look into something that is RETAILING for $7200

http://www.breathlessperformance.com...productId=1130

Originally Posted by CLA (Post 3991793)

Yea, pull back on the stick! Air compresses H20 does not.

<----Cat owner.

Originally Posted by boatme (Post 3991973)

Holy crap!! did i see this correctly?? did they split the boat with the camera and the nblue boat in front of them ?????? Please say that isnt true

Originally Posted by Schweeng (Post 3991893)

I've watched a lot of offshore racing where the big cats pass behind other cats all the time for positioning.... I can't recall "blowovers" ever being an issue....watch any video and you'll see it as normal racing...
So why in a PR environment is it happening??? Over trimmed? Do the racers know to trim in a bit to make their wake crossing safer?
Again..in offshore racing crossing wakes in close proximity happens all the time.