Poker Run Format - should it be changed?
09-09-2013, 07:05 PM
#71
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 1000 Islands
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are a lot of good points presented. After watching the video, watching My Way crash in person last year and nearly having to bring the boat off plane to avoid a repeat incident this year, personally I think we need to re-evaluate poker run event exposure. Every marina and every boat ramp should be littered with information about the poker run time and course. With soo many huge houseboats on lake cumberland, it would be easy to send a couple out with banners on the side to remind people of the event taking place. It is a spectators sport and all the fast boats run hard to show off and I love it; most people do. For the one time a year these boats run flat out on a specific body of water and spectators flock to the edges of the "course" in order to get the closest view, poker run organizers need to do a better job of making everyone on the water aware of the so called "danger zone" for them to be in. Obviously it is impossible to control the entire course as well as LOTO shootout but everyone that spectated that event knew to keep well clear of the course and produce as little a wake as possible. They were all aware of the event and the consequences of altering the course conditions in any way.
Absolute tragic event and we can only speculate that this could have been avoided with more event awareness on behalf of the general public.
Absolute tragic event and we can only speculate that this could have been avoided with more event awareness on behalf of the general public.
09-09-2013, 07:06 PM
#72
Registered
Classic 42X rubbing glass with a cat! 2 very famous offshore guys behind the wheel of each boat. I was on that poker run but never saw the video!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CjTV8-v...eature=related
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CjTV8-v...eature=related
I was a passenger on a run a few years ago and we had a guy in a Gun do the same thing. Passed by at about five feet, hit a wake then cut across our bow hosing us down. Although beating the **** out of the guy on the dock was an option. We instead had a chat with the guys putting the run on at the next stop. Needless to say that was the guys last run...
09-09-2013, 07:09 PM
#73
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM56p...&feature=share
This happened this year at our run. I guess you could call it a near miss. The guy was smiling and waving to people like he was having a great time. This was my first poker run and I was the LAST boat out of the harbor and we had a great time on my boat. I was never caught between waves or had to slow down cause someone was moving over or whatever. It was great.
As for a change, I have read a lot about this and have prolly watched 100+ PR videos. The big boys are what draws people in. In order to keep these going we need to find a way to please the speed freaks and keep it safe for everyone.
This happened this year at our run. I guess you could call it a near miss. The guy was smiling and waving to people like he was having a great time. This was my first poker run and I was the LAST boat out of the harbor and we had a great time on my boat. I was never caught between waves or had to slow down cause someone was moving over or whatever. It was great.
As for a change, I have read a lot about this and have prolly watched 100+ PR videos. The big boys are what draws people in. In order to keep these going we need to find a way to please the speed freaks and keep it safe for everyone.
09-09-2013, 07:19 PM
#74
Registered
VIP MemberJoin Date: Jun 2008
Location: long island ny
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a horrible accident. period...... but IMPO i don't agree with things like this being discussed on an open forum.......
09-09-2013, 07:21 PM
#75
Registered
Again control spectator boats to the first card stop, Give the big money boats a place to open up Thats where boats tend to runs balls out, Why is that not possible? Tons of boats watching the LOTO shoot out you don't see any crossing in front of a boat going 150 plus? No 50' cruisers plowing water? so why is that not possible? Could something still happen? Sure, but by my math if spectator boats were controlled better 2 of the last 3 accidents of this type would likely not have happened. Would these guys have lived with more safety gear (were they wearing any?) not sure, but I'd rather take my chances with at least a helmet and vest vs. with out.
In the end they only hurt them selves but had they not cut left it looks like the cruiser was going to get broad sided.
In the end they only hurt them selves but had they not cut left it looks like the cruiser was going to get broad sided.
09-09-2013, 07:25 PM
#77
Registered
iTrader: (3)
Root cause analysis. They were not the first ones to wipe out in a cat at a poker run. They will not be the last. Fix the problem not the blame. To do that you need to get the guys with the fast cats and the poker run promoters together. They put the runs on, they run at speed, they are the experts. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE GOING FAST! But until the uber fast guys and the promotors get together to find an amicable solution they will continue hauling azz on a river of denial. 99% of us on this forum are not going 150+ regularly. We are not the experts and we will not solve the problem here. All we are doing discussing it here is giving the tree huggers and blowboaters googleable fodder to be used against us. I'm out.
Last edited by phragle; 09-09-2013 at 07:29 PM.
09-09-2013, 07:31 PM
#78
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harrison, Oh/Lake Cumberland, Ky
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cumberland is the only poker run I'm familiar with, so my comments and suggestions may not have any bearing on any other event, but this is how it is here. The poker run is a huge spectator event. Thousands of boats hit the lake for the sole purpose of being near these boats when they go roaring by. With that said, there's still hundreds of other boaters out on the lake who have no interest in the poker run, but are just looking to get in at least one more good weekend of boating for the summer and could give two ****s less about giving up the right of way for a couple go fasts to go by.
The way it goes at cumberland is everyone scrambles to get between the start point at state dock and camp earl wallace, about seven miles up the course, which happens to be near the entrance to party cove. Poker run starts at 10, so after a good night of partying Friday, it's tough to expect the crowd to be out there and settled down that early. I would estimate 70% of the spectator boats are in this area. As soon as the boats go by, nearly all the spectators head for party cove immediately. The large majority don't bother to wait for the poker runners to go back on the return trip. So that leaves us with the boats starting the day running in to the recent wake of hundreds, if not thousands of boats leaving washing machine type conditions, cramming to a single point in the course, which happens to be the point where the big boys are pushing it the hardest to be the first boat heading to the first card stop. Throw in one or a dozen guys running "late" for the party to start, and **** goes wrong quick. The three crashes I can recall from the last handful of years all happened between the start and the first card stop. What could be done to prevent it?
Here's what won't work.
The course is over 50 miles long, there's no way they could ever make it a closed course event, and there's too many people out there with no interest in the event who would not support it and fight for the event to just not be held instead.
Random start times, or random card stops won't work. This is too spectator oriented, and they need to know they're going to see all the boats run by in as short of a time as possible, as soon as possible so the rest of the day can be spent at party cove before rolling back to state dock for the night party. At best, a couple minute staggered starts for the first class of boats could probably be gotten away with and then let the other classes go as a group.
What might help?
The first card stop should be moved to the other end of the lake. It's much bigger, much straighter, and does not go directly past the entrance to party cove. This gives everyone more room to work, but also would result in the lake quickly being filled with boats running back towards party cove at the same time the poker run boats are trying to make the return leg of that card stop.
Use a pace boat to the first card stop. You could still run in multiple groups, at fairly fast speeds(120mph, 90mph, 70mph?) and give the spectators a show then let them open them up once they are well beyond the nightmare portion of the lake.
Pace boat the whole poker run. Take the race out of it altogether. I think it would only work if they also incorporated some kind of unlimited speed event the day prior, be it timed runs on the big part of the lake, or just flat out grudge match style challenges, but something to settle the bragging rights of who's the fastest before the poker run ever gets under way.
Just one of the spectators thoughts on it.
The way it goes at cumberland is everyone scrambles to get between the start point at state dock and camp earl wallace, about seven miles up the course, which happens to be near the entrance to party cove. Poker run starts at 10, so after a good night of partying Friday, it's tough to expect the crowd to be out there and settled down that early. I would estimate 70% of the spectator boats are in this area. As soon as the boats go by, nearly all the spectators head for party cove immediately. The large majority don't bother to wait for the poker runners to go back on the return trip. So that leaves us with the boats starting the day running in to the recent wake of hundreds, if not thousands of boats leaving washing machine type conditions, cramming to a single point in the course, which happens to be the point where the big boys are pushing it the hardest to be the first boat heading to the first card stop. Throw in one or a dozen guys running "late" for the party to start, and **** goes wrong quick. The three crashes I can recall from the last handful of years all happened between the start and the first card stop. What could be done to prevent it?
Here's what won't work.
The course is over 50 miles long, there's no way they could ever make it a closed course event, and there's too many people out there with no interest in the event who would not support it and fight for the event to just not be held instead.
Random start times, or random card stops won't work. This is too spectator oriented, and they need to know they're going to see all the boats run by in as short of a time as possible, as soon as possible so the rest of the day can be spent at party cove before rolling back to state dock for the night party. At best, a couple minute staggered starts for the first class of boats could probably be gotten away with and then let the other classes go as a group.
What might help?
The first card stop should be moved to the other end of the lake. It's much bigger, much straighter, and does not go directly past the entrance to party cove. This gives everyone more room to work, but also would result in the lake quickly being filled with boats running back towards party cove at the same time the poker run boats are trying to make the return leg of that card stop.
Use a pace boat to the first card stop. You could still run in multiple groups, at fairly fast speeds(120mph, 90mph, 70mph?) and give the spectators a show then let them open them up once they are well beyond the nightmare portion of the lake.
Pace boat the whole poker run. Take the race out of it altogether. I think it would only work if they also incorporated some kind of unlimited speed event the day prior, be it timed runs on the big part of the lake, or just flat out grudge match style challenges, but something to settle the bragging rights of who's the fastest before the poker run ever gets under way.
Just one of the spectators thoughts on it.
09-09-2013, 07:39 PM
#80
Moderator please put this thread in bilge. Sincere condolences for the families who suffered a great loss. All our comments are hoping to help the rest of us.
There must be an automobile precedent to help figure this out. I can't just go out and haul azz with abandon in my Boss 302 without getting the attention of the cops. They are public streets. Likewise, these are public lakes and unless you get permission to close off an area there will always be the risk of some uninformed person crossing the course leading to disaster. Speeds at this level are completely unsafe on an open course. Its just going to be a matter of time before the next one if nothing changes. An old friend used to tell me "if nothing changes then nothing changes". Can you imagine an automobile free-for-all on your nearby Interstate, complete with spectators boosting the local economy? I think we all need to go watch "The Road Warrior" again.
There must be an automobile precedent to help figure this out. I can't just go out and haul azz with abandon in my Boss 302 without getting the attention of the cops. They are public streets. Likewise, these are public lakes and unless you get permission to close off an area there will always be the risk of some uninformed person crossing the course leading to disaster. Speeds at this level are completely unsafe on an open course. Its just going to be a matter of time before the next one if nothing changes. An old friend used to tell me "if nothing changes then nothing changes". Can you imagine an automobile free-for-all on your nearby Interstate, complete with spectators boosting the local economy? I think we all need to go watch "The Road Warrior" again.
Last edited by On Time; 09-09-2013 at 07:55 PM.
