Commentary: Center Console Futures
 

Interesting take from Scott Sjogren of Pier 57 Marine, http://speedonthewater.com/in-the-ne...onsole-futures

I believe that man is correct...... Now anyone want to buy a Sonic 358.

Keep the cat

39 Cig GTS as a second home.

big block/supercharged/turbocharged stuff is done......there was a rush to have 125 mph vee bottoms and 200 mph cats but after the costs and impracticality of those boats is figured in.......most people would be content with decent performance boats that accommodate 10+ people and are warranted for long periods of time. Think about it, for the cost of a 525 boat rebuild (rebuild motors, replace headers, refresh XR's) you could buy 3 300 Vrods brand new out of the box!

I would like to see some closed deck builds (37 AT, 39 TG type stuff in standard go fast trim but with triple outboards). There was a 38 PP- triple 300's but can't think of to many others. http://www.flpowerboat.com/gallery/d...bum=135&pos=25

I thought the Cig was a "Huntress" , not a mistress.
Nitpicking aside, I think insurance and maintenance are a big factor in the growth of the CC market also.
You REALLY have to want a fast boat to pay what it costs for these two items alone. Then add even higher premiums for the guys in Florida and it gets to be a small market segment in a hurry.
I have crawled all over several of MTI's center consoles and ridden in a couple and I can see why people like them, they are easy to live with!

Not nitpicking at all ... Scott said Huntress, I heard Huntress, I know Huntress ... and I typed Mistress. Corrected now. Many thanks.

I have to gently disagree with Jupiter, as I sometimes do. I think "done" is an overstatement. In fact, the higher end of the custom catamaran and V-bottom segment is, at present, the strongest segment of the pure go-fast boat market. Now, if you want to say the overall market is a fraction of what it once was, then we have no argument whatsoever.

Carry on, gentlemen. I am always engaged and enlightened by your discussions.

I would agree with Jup on one thing, I wish there were more go fast type with outboards. Seems to me the high cost of maintaining high HP IO's and the room they take is the biggest down fall.

As for fitting 10 plus people on, I don't want that many people on my boat (considering most wont give a chit about the boat) but I do understand a lot do.

OL has built a couple nice boats this year.......check
MTI premiered Gino's boat at the Miami show......check


Then crickets in the go fast market.....Shogren doesn't stock a single new go fast cat or vee, arguably the biggest go fast dealer in the world and not one in stock, dealer at LOTO still owns the first 36 OL/ even after heavy price cuts and 2 yr warranty on the power.....market is dead.....check!

I can remember seeing 24-36 brand new boats in between Miami and Lauderdale show.......all sold in 8 month period. Saw this multiple years in a row, buy and run it in the next poker run. Some guys bought 5+ brand new go fast boats. I can't remember the last new go fast I have even seen on the water in S. Florida.

Cause once you get away from the MTI's and O.L's. You get into a range where the go fast and the CC market meet in price.

Before the go fast had all the advantage other than space. Now the tides have turned and these CC's are running at speeds right there with them, with many more amenities, longer warranty, and the ease of outboards. All that's missing is the sound but after getting so much more these days with a CC that part can be over looked.

It has taken nearly a full year to build my new MTI that delivers next week. Why? Because there were quite a few ahead of me and it takes time to build one. There have been lots of performance boats delivered from MTI, Skater, Mystic, DCB, and others, just maybe not as public as the ones you mentioned. As far as "stocking" performance boats, that's a losing proposition. Most, if not all the customers in this arena at the dollars these boats cost will opt to have one built for them, painted in THEIR colors, and are willing to wait.
I agree the number of performance boats in general is probably way down, but the upper end market seems just fine. Right or wrong, that's the way it seems.

When I lived in Miami we called them the pontoon boats of the ocean.. Same basic principle (lots of seating,no cabin,never used for anything except cruising around to party coves) except they go faster than most pontoons and can handle the ocean.. :)

Many and most have cabins these days, very large and plush ones at that.

no mention of Sunsations CCX???? which I would put in there with all the others. I have not seen one in person but they look top notch to me.... anyone want to take a couple boats in on trade for a CCX or any of the others??? PM me :boat:

They are not for me. The outboards are fine but I like a long closed bow.

says the guy with a 22' boat with almost no freeboard lol :)

I understand your point and congrats on your new build.......but on a whole the go fast market is 5% of what it was jus 10 years ago. Remember when Randy/Fastboats would deliver 10 new Nortechs in a year? Cats/Vees, big power with awesome paint and 04,05,06 were the hottest years......just look in the classifieds now and they show the bulk of the inventory is from those years.

They are cool, seen a few now..........but cha-ching expensive. The 29 CCX seems it has the price point figured out and it has decent performance.

Yes, but it's not an open bow! And it goes 85 mph. :)

It's only 30' but Concept makes a nice looking perf. boat with O/B's.

I'm pretty sure I'm done with I/O's after my current boat.

I agree, that is why we bought the Talon 25, 1 engine/XR to take care of, And that is also why the 388 is for sale now....

Scott's biggest mistake was not taking Nor-Tech on for CC's when he had the chance and instead sticking with Cig. You now have a boat cover dealer in LOTO taking a 1/3 of Nor-Tech's CC production in a year and 95% of those boats have an owner before they are delivered to LOTO. Now he states there's a market for an even more upscale CC? I believe Statement, MTI, Nor-Tech, etc. already fill that niche.

I recently spent a few days as a passenger and behind the wheel of a 2014 34 No-Tech CC w/twin 300's on LOTO. I've logged many hours on LOTO in both go-fasts and sport cruisers I can see the appeal of the CC. We hauled 11 people from the 4MM to Ha Ha Tonka and back one day and not once did anyone feel cramped whether running or on anchor. The ride, cruising speed, and fuel burn was better with the CC than the 35' sport cruiser it replaced. It has the lines and more responsive feel of prior go-fasts and had many a bar patron stopping on the docks to take a closer look. While there, I helped with oil and gear lube changes on the Verados. Very easy. Nice to not to have to climb in a bilge. .

Scott had nor-tech but when he bought pier 57 we had to give up nor-tech because of mti. Now he doesn't sell mti so I bet he regrets that move. BTW we did boyne thunder last weekend in my 39 nor-tech cc with 7 people on board with lots of room and we stayed in the middle of the pack all day running 65 mph. I left my 42 fountain at home lol

So Scott "bought" Pier 57 and it was not really a merger?

Did most of the Outlaw Challenge in a 38' Statement with twins....this was us.

Never cramped, all having fun, the ride was amazing, and the cruise speed was 55mph.

Can't ask for much more.http://i59.tinypic.com/28hfzna.jpg

For me it wasn't as much the closed bow vs. center console, it was the motors. I/Os had a decent advantage over outboards in the old days (I'm told) because of simplicity of the motor and availabilty of parts. The days of gapping points are long gone, and with it, the simplicity of the I/O motor. My last boat had a 496 Mag and it looked like NASA was involved in the design. Yes, it was reliable, but the local brick and mortar marine stores didn't even have an impeller in stock (parts availabilty advantage now out the window). My days of crawling around under an engine hatch are done, I'm trading the sound of through hull exhaust for the sweet smell of 2 stroke oil.

That is why the Talon was soo attractive when I was shopping for 1, it has this:

Put your checkbook where your mouth is. We'll meet you halfway. :drink:

I couldn't ask for a better all around boat than my GTS. We had 16 people on the Key West run last year and it wasn't cramped. The boat handles all water conditions well, pump out toilet, stereo, satellite TV, radar, shade, and it's not too bad to trailer. The biggest complaint that I have is you have to remember to turn the engines off, because you can't hear them running:grinser010: Don't get me wrong, I drool over the Huntress and the MTI-V, but the beam on the bigger CC's is wider than I want to tow.

That is what I was told.

I think AT and my checkbook are "more than halfway" apart......:D

I do think if Pat built one on spec it would be sold before he finished it! How fast do you think a 37 would be with 3-300's?

How fast is the 39 GTS?

I saw one of those closed deck Concepts (Miami show a few years back) but never saw another.....

The thought of a 25' Tantrum with a cabin, 3 row seating, and a pair of Optimax motors on a bracket just gave me a chubby.

Meanwhile, my checkbook had a mild heart attack...

you just stated the case for them, how many people really enjoy blowing $1000 on gas for a day of high speed wave pounding, 0.01 of the boat buying public and even fewer of their guests. the number goes up when you add the pleasure of "being seen" in a crazy cool boat but even then its 0.003. The reality is the majority of people that can afford these boats wants to be able to be the Host with the most" and the new flashy CC's allow them to do it without taking a huge ego hit by going slow.
If I had the money I would have both

I absolutely love my 30 Concept. I was originally looking to go 36, but I am happy I went with the 30. It does everything I need it to do, sits 8 in the cockpit comfortably (not that I want to do that often), has a small cuddy that the wife and I can sleep in, handles Lake Erie snot well, gets excellent fuel mileage, is unbelievably quick (not the fastest thing on the water, but the torque of the 2 stroke outboards blows me away)... While I did originally miss the sound of my BB/Bravo, I quickly got over that. Also, working on the outboards is a breeze compared to crouching down in the engine bay of an off shore.

oops, just reread the quoted post above... Yes Concept does make a closed deck 30. They call it the 30 Sport Deck. There aren't many out there but the ones that are out there are well laid out. The 30 Sport Deck was on my short list when I was shopping...

The CC segment is growing up here in MI. While there aren't many custom high dollar CCs running around, I am seeing more and more CCs/OB boats every time we go out. Our Concept is one of only a few here in SE MI, and I am asked about it every time we go out, at the dock, gas station, etc. The Concept has the look of the go-fast, more so than most of the others. Don't get me wrong, if my check book could support it I'd have a Deep Impact/MTI/Nor-tech/etc over my Concept. But having come from a smaller Go-Fast (Velocity 260) to the CC market, the Concept kept the look and almost as much speed. Velocity 260 would hit 74 on a perfect day (GPS), I have had the Concept up to 66 with the Bimini stretched out and motors trimmed in (So I'd say the Concept is a 68 MPH boat), but the Concept crushes my single 496 in acceleration.. With the Velocity we cruised at 45 MPH, with the Concept we cruise at 45 so where we spend most of our time (slow cruise speed, the O/Bs like to run in higher RPMs, but we like to cruise a bit slower so I am sure we suffer a bit fuel mileage wise by cruising slower) I haven't given up anything (actually gained fuel economy).

70 with trip 300 Verados. Cruise is 50-55

Again, I would not argue with you about severe contraction in the marketplace. I simply disagree with your statement that the market is "done," and I suspect Randy Scism of MTI, Mike Fiore of Outerlimits, Skip Braver of Cigarette, Erik Christiansen of Mercury Racing, Peter Hledin of Skater, the Schaldenbrands at Sunsation and a lot of others, who are all very candid and realistic about the marketplace (don't take my word for it, you can talk to all of them at the next Miami boat show) in terms of how small it's become, would disagree with your pronouncement as well. Yes, it's a lot harder. Yes, there are fewer buyers. But builders are still out there, producing great product that provide pleasure for those who can afford them, making a living providing a living for other people, though fewer than once were.

Only an idiot would argue that the market will ever return to former levels or anything close to them. But I would gently suggest that it is you who is "done" with the market, something I understand, and not the market itself that is done. It's just a whole lot smaller than it used to be, but frankly that just belabors the obvious.

I'll never own one. Nothing like driving a cat at high speed. My old lady would leave for a cool guy if I ever bought a fishing boat.

I think what gets everyone is they don't do their own work. I change my oil, fuel filters, drive oil, drive alignment, etc. If you have reliable power (merc/ilmor/etc) and can do your own work these boats are a crap load of fun. Over 400 hours on my Eliminator in 5-6 seasons.

Look at the boats in the classifieds. Few year old big boats with huge carb'd blower motors. Only an idiot or a mechanic would try and run that regularly. Or the guy that has so much money he just drops it off and tells someone to make it run.

Or maybe cause at least around here you pretty much have to be a very rich man just to insure your cat.

I'm sure FL insurance is high. But these hobbies cost money. I was just quoted under 4K a year for a 30 plus foot cat with mild power no lay up in Texas. Tottaly worth it to me.