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Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4201903)
Back in the day it was just away to make easy money . no killings .no crime. I can barely keep track of all the people on my 10 fingers that I have known personally that used to be in the trade in the day that had nothing to do with offshore boats .
This assumption that Don was getting suit cases of money comes from where? And Colombians had nothing to do with weed they were Coke people.. all the weed back in the day was Mexican. And just one more thing on these Columbians, who was this Cartel that has never been exposed nor convicted for smuggling. murders .etc. Don was the King and Ben was the new punk that phucked with Don and Don had a chance to Phuck him back in the Blue Thunder deal and got murdered for it. And Colombians had nothing to do with weed they were Coke people.. all the weed back in the day was Mexican. |
EHH man Choo want some Columbian Gold , I Geeetzzssa some for choo/
Be right BOCK We used to get great weed up in Michigan when i was a teen. Moved to SW Fl back in 84 and al they had down here was Mexican crap weed. But now if you wanted Coke it was great and CHEAp cheap. Could never really get into it though . Ben had the hookup on the Colombian thing but most everybody I knew it was Mexican or coming through Mexico. In all my years in Fl I never saw any thing that was near what we used to get up in Michigan until the kids here started with their Hydroponic stuff. actually for the decade before hydro the market over here was flooded with California |
Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4203161)
In all my years in Fl I never saw any thing that was near what we used to get up in Michigan until the kids here started with their Hydroponic stuff.
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No mmmaaannn it was tieshtick you see it was tied to a stick:cool-smiley-027:
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Totally blew me a way when i 1st moved to Sw Florida how expensive and ****ty the weed was. I was never a everyday smoker in MI but when i did one of my good friends always had very stonie smooth stuff. My younger brother had been down here in FL for 3 years prior and was a huge smoker and the chit he was gettin we would not had even bought in Mi.
Probably pretty good chance a lot of good stuff over on the East coast was overflow and stolen off loads that were coming from Columbia but it surely wasn't making it to to Sw Fl |
Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4203168)
No mmmaaannn it was tieshtick you see it was tied to a stick:cool-smiley-027:
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Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4203168)
No mmmaaannn it was tieshtick you see it was tied to a stick:cool-smiley-027:
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Originally Posted by Quinlan
(Post 4203264)
That's some funny chit right there! Don't for get Maui- Wowie!!
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Originally Posted by Speedracer29
(Post 4203164)
Pinconning Paralyzer
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Tennessee Green
Kelly Green- first synthetic. First saw it late '70s. tasted like you were smoking a test tube full of raw chemicals. REALLY phucked you up.......... |
I seem to be missing a block of time in my memory from that era, I am pretty sure it went up in smoke. Lol
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Originally Posted by jusabum
(Post 4202047)
Ben was THE money man who built the Apache name to icon status through serious cash, racing and being a bad-boy. McManus was the brains behind the Apache boat business that had Ben's huge cash infusions to make it successful in spite of anything and everything - and he did it well. |
All Im saying is that I lived in southern california at that time.....
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Originally Posted by offshoredrillin
(Post 4203386)
Kind of forgetting somebody there aren't you? Like the guy that designed the boats and throttled them and is still building new boats that are winning long distance races...
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Originally Posted by jusabum
(Post 4203634)
This thread is about Ben Kramer. Again, Ben's money literally built Apache into a successful boat business. The 41 was an Aronow designed boat, nothing special, except that there was a ton of money to make it run strong. Keith, Bobby and Tommy all helped and got a nice ride, but without the cash and notoriety, nothing big would have ever happened.
too bad the money wasn't from a legal resource though. Perhaps they all could have gone a lot further. |
Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4203639)
That is true
too bad the money wasn't from a legal resource though. Perhaps they all could have gone a lot further. |
Originally Posted by J-Bonz
(Post 4203266)
Yeah but, it's mostly Labrador....
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Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4203161)
EHH man Choo want some Columbian Gold , I Geeetzzssa some for choo/
Be right BOCK We used to get great weed up in Michigan when i was a teen. Moved to SW Fl back in 84 and al they had down here was Mexican crap weed. But hey if you wanted Yea it was great and CHEAp cheap. Ben had the hookup on the Colombian thing but most everybody I knew it was Mexican or coming through Mexico. In all my years in Fl I never saw any thing that was near what we used to get up in Michigan until the kids here started with their Hydroponic stuff. actually for the decade before hydro the market over here was flooded with California |
Which prison is he currently in?
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Coleman
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Originally Posted by DirtyMoney
(Post 4203891)
Coleman
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 4203690)
Apache was getting into cats. Also the first 47 V was built. Apache Powerboats had a full head of steam!
The paint schemes evolved over the years, but it was an Apache first and it set the standard. McManus proceeded to launch some of the most awesome boats to ever hit the water, he painted outdrives, put billet aluminum everywhere and installed massive exotic engines - and the personalized custom built powerboat was born. All of this was possible because of cash from Ben and buyers wanting to be part of the new standard. You can love to hate, or hate to love the guy, but he changed the industry, and it was a direct result of his money! |
Originally Posted by jusabum
(Post 4203900)
Apache was the first boat builder to think outside the box and introduced us to the wild paint schemes and cool graphics that became the look for high performance offshore boats. Low Profile, Jenny's Express, Little Caesars, PTM Express to name a few.
The paint schemes evolved over the years, but it was an Apache first and it set the standard. McManus proceeded to launch some of the most awesome boats to ever hit the water, he painted outdrives, put billet aluminum everywhere and installed massive exotic engines - and the personalized custom built powerboat was born. All of this was possible because of cash from Ben and buyers wanting to be part of the new standard. You can love to hate, or hate to love the guy, but he changed the industry, and it was a direct result of his money! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUEyso8vPBM |
Originally Posted by jusabum
(Post 4203900)
Apache was the first boat builder to think outside the box and introduced us to the wild paint schemes and cool graphics that became the look for high performance offshore boats. Low Profile, Jenny's Express, Little Caesars, PTM Express to name a few.
The paint schemes evolved over the years, but it was an Apache first and it set the standard. McManus proceeded to launch some of the most awesome boats to ever hit the water, he painted outdrives, put billet aluminum everywhere and installed massive exotic engines - and the personalized custom built powerboat was born. All of this was possible because of cash from Ben and buyers wanting to be part of the new standard. You can love to hate, or hate to love the guy, but he changed the industry, and it was a direct result of his money! |
[QUOTE=Cash Bar;4203894]Which is located where?[/QUOTE
Central FL] |
Originally Posted by Cash Bar
(Post 4203894)
Which is located where?
http://www.bop.gov/inmateloc/ Type in his name and it'll give you his address and register number... in case anybody feels the urge to send fan mail.... |
Originally Posted by jusabum
(Post 4203900)
You can love to hate, or hate to love the guy, but he changed the industry, and it was a direct result of his money!
|
I'm not trying to stir the pot here...seriously. I know how good Apaches are for what they do. I'd own one in a second if I could.
I'm always hearing how successful Apache was. How many boats did Apache actually build? |
And what happened to Apache when Ben got arrested did the government seize it and shut it down?
And what happened to the name that it all became such a controversy about who owned the rights to it? |
Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4204048)
And what happened to Apache when Ben got arrested did the government seize it and shut it down?
And what happened to the name that it all became such a controversy about who owned the rights to it? A quick summary for you is this quote from Bob Saccenti himself "I founded Apache Powerboats in 1978 when I started tooling my 21’, 33’ & 39’ boat line. I incorporated Apache Powerboats and went into production in 1980. At the same time I also owned and operated Race Headquarters, Inc., a custom Hi-Performance center and I also co-owned Hawk Marine Power. In 1982, I brought the Kramer’s into Apache as my partners, sold my interest in Hawk Marine Power and absorbed Race Headquarters, its crew and all its equipment into Apache. The first order of business was to produce the baddest wave buster’s money could buy. Since the tooling for my new 39’ offshore was still months away from completion, I went to the King himself, Don Aronow, and made arrangements to purchase a new 41’ mold he had just completed. The first boat out of the mold was blue and tan and Benny called it “Warpath”. My original Race Headquarters crew rigged Warpath and off we went for sea trial. Ben and I ran Warpath offshore through some of the heaviest seas imaginable at over 90 miles per hour. Ben and I knew immediately that we had built a real winner. We entered Warpath in the APBA Open Class and won the Key West World Championship in 1984. The original factory team was Ben Kramer – Driver, Bob Saccenti – Throttles, and Tom Evans – Navigator. In 1985 we took Second in the Key West U.I.M. Worlds, with the red “Team Apache”. Ben and I were now racing around the world with APBA & U.I.M. to promote Apache Powerboats. Because of our demanding race schedule we decided to contract Bobby Moore to rig all of our 41’ production and to serve as Crew Chief on our race team. In 1985, I ended my partnership with the Kramer’s on a friendly note agreeing to share the name Apache. I called my company Apache Performance Boats; he kept my original name, Apache Powerboats. Even though we were now two separate companies, we continued to act as one, sharing boat show space and tooling. We also continued to race as a team for promotion of the name. In 1986, we won the National Championship and were awarded the coveted US1 in our “prototype” catamaran “Team Apache”. That was also the year we introduced the new 47’ triple engine Apache Superboat. In 1987, things started to fall apart. The Kramer’s had major legal problems and the government seized all their assets including Fort Apache Marina and Apache Powerboats. The government hand picked one of Ben’s employees to run the company while they completed their investigation. Some of Ben’s employees were involved with Ben’s problems, some left, and new people were hired. With the new star employee running things, the first order of his business was to disassemble the last 41’ Bobby Moore rigged and copy all measurements and systems and make jigs and templates to duplicate Bobby Moore’s genius (nothing like knowing your trade). Bobby Moore has never gotten over this to this day. Many years passed and it was business as usual for me. Around 1996, the government auctioned all the Kramer’s assets. The only thing they did not sell was the Florida Trademark for Apache and the Apache Powerboat name. I did not think about it at the time because my Apache Trademark, although slightly different, is a Federal Trademark. From time to time my attorney in Washington would inquire about the State trademark and was always told “it’s not for sale”. Well, SURPRISE – SURPRISE. After one such inquiry, I was advised that the same STAR EMPLOYEE had just purchased the Florida Trademark from the same “it’s not for sale” government for a couple hundred bucks. What a success story, the employee gets to own the company. talk about back dooring. It must be nice to have close buddy's in the right places. Now the real confusion. With Apache Powerboats & Apache Performance Boats already sharing the market, the old retired 41’ molds were purchased at auction for 12k and re-sold to a company in Ohio that advertised that they could build the “41’ Apache for half the price”. Also, the star employee moved to the other coast and started to produce boats by Xerox under another tribal name and when I wasn’t looking he slid a few Apache’s in for good measure. Personally, I think he should have named his company “High Dollar Lead Sleds, Inc.”. Additionally, in the early – mid 90’s, a Miami based company made a very, very bad copy of the 41’. They changed the bottom, cut the sheer, and the first time in the water the boat rolled in its first turn. The molds were stacked and stored in the sun and weather out in the yard to never be used again. Just recently those same molds were sold to an individual in Blountstown, Florida who is now saying he is the “New Apache”. What a joke. I wouldn’t use those molds for a flower pot. All of this would have surely brought tears to Geronimo’s eyes. Also, rumor has it that I sold out, died, left town, closed up and went out of business and so on. WRONG. NONE OF THE ABOVE All that I have written here can easily be verified and I know, I lived it. If you have any questions please call or fax me. I do better on the phone than the keyboard. The resin makes my fingers stick to the keys. Also, thanks to all the Apache owners who put the TLC and money into keeping their Apache in tip top shape and promoting the heritage. Best regards, Bob Saccenti" |
Bob kept building boat using the Apache name, But they were 36's and 21's, I believe Mcmannus got the big molds. I don't know if the Name Debacle ever got setteled/final, I think everone just gave up...
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 4203937)
WOW Thats Amazing! 2400 Horsepower running 75mph! But wait.... look how smooth :lolhit: |
Who is this Star employee that Bob refers to as taking over Bens end of Apache?
And how did Saber up in Michigan end up building a few 41s did they purchase the mold from this outfit out of Ohio that Bob referred to also? |
Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4204057)
Never mind I found this on a old thread but the original thread that this came from no longer exists
A quick summary for you is this quote from Bob Saccenti himself "I founded Apache Powerboats in 1978 when I started tooling my 21’, 33’ & 39’ boat line. I incorporated Apache Powerboats and went into production in 1980. At the same time I also owned and operated Race Headquarters, Inc., a custom Hi-Performance center and I also co-owned Hawk Marine Power. In 1982, I brought the Kramer’s into Apache as my partners, sold my interest in Hawk Marine Power and absorbed Race Headquarters, its crew and all its equipment into Apache. The first order of business was to produce the baddest wave buster’s money could buy. Since the tooling for my new 39’ offshore was still months away from completion, I went to the King himself, Don Aronow, and made arrangements to purchase a new 41’ mold he had just completed. The first boat out of the mold was blue and tan and Benny called it “Warpath”. My original Race Headquarters crew rigged Warpath and off we went for sea trial. Ben and I ran Warpath offshore through some of the heaviest seas imaginable at over 90 miles per hour. Ben and I knew immediately that we had built a real winner. We entered Warpath in the APBA Open Class and won the Key West World Championship in 1984. The original factory team was Ben Kramer – Driver, Bob Saccenti – Throttles, and Tom Evans – Navigator. In 1985 we took Second in the Key West U.I.M. Worlds, with the red “Team Apache”. Ben and I were now racing around the world with APBA & U.I.M. to promote Apache Powerboats. Because of our demanding race schedule we decided to contract Bobby Moore to rig all of our 41’ production and to serve as Crew Chief on our race team. In 1985, I ended my partnership with the Kramer’s on a friendly note agreeing to share the name Apache. I called my company Apache Performance Boats; he kept my original name, Apache Powerboats. Even though we were now two separate companies, we continued to act as one, sharing boat show space and tooling. We also continued to race as a team for promotion of the name. In 1986, we won the National Championship and were awarded the coveted US1 in our “prototype” catamaran “Team Apache”. That was also the year we introduced the new 47’ triple engine Apache Superboat. In 1987, things started to fall apart. The Kramer’s had major legal problems and the government seized all their assets including Fort Apache Marina and Apache Powerboats. The government hand picked one of Ben’s employees to run the company while they completed their investigation. Some of Ben’s employees were involved with Ben’s problems, some left, and new people were hired. With the new star employee running things, the first order of his business was to disassemble the last 41’ Bobby Moore rigged and copy all measurements and systems and make jigs and templates to duplicate Bobby Moore’s genius (nothing like knowing your trade). Bobby Moore has never gotten over this to this day. Many years passed and it was business as usual for me. Around 1996, the government auctioned all the Kramer’s assets. The only thing they did not sell was the Florida Trademark for Apache and the Apache Powerboat name. I did not think about it at the time because my Apache Trademark, although slightly different, is a Federal Trademark. From time to time my attorney in Washington would inquire about the State trademark and was always told “it’s not for sale”. Well, SURPRISE – SURPRISE. After one such inquiry, I was advised that the same STAR EMPLOYEE had just purchased the Florida Trademark from the same “it’s not for sale” government for a couple hundred bucks. What a success story, the employee gets to own the company. talk about back dooring. It must be nice to have close buddy's in the right places. Now the real confusion. With Apache Powerboats & Apache Performance Boats already sharing the market, the old retired 41’ molds were purchased at auction for 12k and re-sold to a company in Ohio that advertised that they could build the “41’ Apache for half the price”. Also, the star employee moved to the other coast and started to produce boats by Xerox under another tribal name and when I wasn’t looking he slid a few Apache’s in for good measure. Personally, I think he should have named his company “High Dollar Lead Sleds, Inc.”. Additionally, in the early – mid 90’s, a Miami based company made a very, very bad copy of the 41’. They changed the bottom, cut the sheer, and the first time in the water the boat rolled in its first turn. The molds were stacked and stored in the sun and weather out in the yard to never be used again. Just recently those same molds were sold to an individual in Blountstown, Florida who is now saying he is the “New Apache”. What a joke. I wouldn’t use those molds for a flower pot. All of this would have surely brought tears to Geronimo’s eyes. Also, rumor has it that I sold out, died, left town, closed up and went out of business and so on. WRONG. NONE OF THE ABOVE All that I have written here can easily be verified and I know, I lived it. If you have any questions please call or fax me. I do better on the phone than the keyboard. The resin makes my fingers stick to the keys. Also, thanks to all the Apache owners who put the TLC and money into keeping their Apache in tip top shape and promoting the heritage. Best regards, Bob Saccenti" |
Originally Posted by glassdave
(Post 4201400)
7
I doubt it, I mean other then money what did he ever dring to the biz/sport? Near as I can tell he was a rock star boat racer type that was at least smart enough to finance the greatest talent avaliable of the day. Although I would suppose if he teamed up with Bobby and knocked out a hand full of special edition wave crushers there would no doubt be buyers. :cool: |
OK now how does this copy of another old thread from early 2005 fall into the pic?
Sounds like boats are being manufactured up in Michigan but with what molds? The ones purchased at auction that went to Ohio that Bob referred to ? But this 2005 thread also mentions the boats go back to Florida for rigging by Bob. Chief Powerboats - The Beginning of a new tribe Chief Powerboats would like to announce the introduction of our first 42’ Warrior This is the first boat coming out of our company and we are excited to be the latest edition to the performance boat industry. Chief Powerboats will be providing V hull boats from 28’ through 47’. Attached is a sneak peek of the First Mohican, boat number 1, shrink wrapped and waiting to be put on its new trailer. The new trailer is complete and will be put under the boat today. The boat will head out for cabin, cockpit and rigging at our Florida facility by the end of the week. This boat has an awesome paint job done by Mitcher T custom painting and I am sure will get the attention of many of the magazines in the next year. This boat has got to be seen up close to appreciate the detail work This phenomenal piece of artwork will be available for viewing just a short trip from the Miami Boats Show this coming week. Please don’t hesitate to contact me for a personal look at our product line Look for this boat as she makes her national poker run debut in the 2005 boating season. It is sure to turn heads and have people talking! We are also excited to announce that we have put Active Thunder’s CEO under the Chief head dress in conjunction with well know chief, Bobby Saccenti, to run the building of all Chief Powerboats. We will now provide a complete array of sizes to the market place under the Chief Powerboats name and they will be available through a complete national dealer network this coming year. Chief Powerboat’s line up of boats is as follows 28' Savage 33' Raven 37' Warhawk 42' Warrior 47 ' Heritage |
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I don't want to get anyones hopes up, but somthing just might happen next year!
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He rubbed a lot people the wrong way, and there's a lot of higher ups that will work hard to minimize his chances of walking out on his own two legs. And then, there are those who took advantage of things - thinking - he would never get out.
So, either way, it would be interesting to see who's still standing in a few years. |
Originally Posted by tommymonza
(Post 4204093)
OK now how does this copy of another old thread from early 2005 fall into the pic?
Sounds like boats are being manufactured up in Michigan but with what molds? The ones purchased at auction that went to Ohio that Bob referred to ? But this 2005 thread also mentions the boats go back to Florida for rigging by Bob. Chief Powerboats - The Beginning of a new tribe Chief Powerboats would like to announce the introduction of our first 42’ Warrior This is the first boat coming out of our company and we are excited to be the latest edition to the performance boat industry. Chief Powerboats will be providing V hull boats from 28’ through 47’. Attached is a sneak peek of the First Mohican, boat number 1, shrink wrapped and waiting to be put on its new trailer. The new trailer is complete and will be put under the boat today. The boat will head out for cabin, cockpit and rigging at our Florida facility by the end of the week. This boat has an awesome paint job done by Mitcher T custom painting and I am sure will get the attention of many of the magazines in the next year. This boat has got to be seen up close to appreciate the detail work This phenomenal piece of artwork will be available for viewing just a short trip from the Miami Boats Show this coming week. Please don’t hesitate to contact me for a personal look at our product line Look for this boat as she makes her national poker run debut in the 2005 boating season. It is sure to turn heads and have people talking! We are also excited to announce that we have put Active Thunder’s CEO under the Chief head dress in conjunction with well know chief, Bobby Saccenti, to run the building of all Chief Powerboats. We will now provide a complete array of sizes to the market place under the Chief Powerboats name and they will be available through a complete national dealer network this coming year. Chief Powerboat’s line up of boats is as follows 28' Savage 33' Raven 37' Warhawk 42' Warrior 47 ' Heritage |
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