Help me decide, I have analysis paralysis!
09-04-2002, 06:46 PM
#31
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UT- On your motor failure If I am correct, concess was main bearing failed, thus taking rod bearing. If this is correct question is why did main bearing fail?
What main was it? What rod was it?
If it was detonation I would say rod bearing could let go before the piston. I can not see main bearing being taken out by detonaton.
Gas in fuel? Good possibilty since you found problem in other motor before it failed. But how did fuel get in oil? Bad rings? I do not think so. If air/fuel ratio is close to right on (clean transom & correct plug color) then blowby is going to cause oil to get thicker.
Since I am not fimillar with the whipple setup, has anything else been removed / changed when you took the blower off? Besides just the blower. Such as computer change, removed extra injector, or anything that has changed fuel system to motor? If you had a leaking injector & it is still on motor now fuel in oil should have shown up by now since you have so may hrs on motor since blowers have been removed.
Last question. Fuel in oil was not noticed when oil was checked just before motor went south? I know I did not (until now) check for fuel in oil when I check the level.
As I am typing this & trying to answer questions from people come in my office. An idea came to mind
There have been some threads on the board about oil filters cloging up due to small amounts of water in oil. Or could both filters have been bad & one showed up a little before the other? Only way to find out is (& know you do not like this) is put the blowers back on(you still got them, better in boat then in garage) & watch oil very closely. Hopefully problem will not show up again, you will be happy, & no more money is spent.
Sorry for the ramble.
What main was it? What rod was it?
If it was detonation I would say rod bearing could let go before the piston. I can not see main bearing being taken out by detonaton.
Gas in fuel? Good possibilty since you found problem in other motor before it failed. But how did fuel get in oil? Bad rings? I do not think so. If air/fuel ratio is close to right on (clean transom & correct plug color) then blowby is going to cause oil to get thicker.
Since I am not fimillar with the whipple setup, has anything else been removed / changed when you took the blower off? Besides just the blower. Such as computer change, removed extra injector, or anything that has changed fuel system to motor? If you had a leaking injector & it is still on motor now fuel in oil should have shown up by now since you have so may hrs on motor since blowers have been removed.
Last question. Fuel in oil was not noticed when oil was checked just before motor went south? I know I did not (until now) check for fuel in oil when I check the level.
As I am typing this & trying to answer questions from people come in my office. An idea came to mind
There have been some threads on the board about oil filters cloging up due to small amounts of water in oil. Or could both filters have been bad & one showed up a little before the other? Only way to find out is (& know you do not like this) is put the blowers back on(you still got them, better in boat then in garage) & watch oil very closely. Hopefully problem will not show up again, you will be happy, & no more money is spent.
Sorry for the ramble.
09-04-2002, 07:24 PM
#32
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TJ:
Not a ramble at all, you highlight some good points. However, my problem in responding to technical question like these is – as everyone on the board knows – I have very little knowledge of motors etc. But I will try.
The gas in the fuel is not a theory – it was there! The person that discovered it is highly capable of making the call. How did it get in there, that’s the question for which my technical ability is short. However, I can still try logic! Such as, it wasn’t a problem before the blowers went on, it hasn’t been a problem since the blowers were taken off, therefore, I think it had something to do with the blowers. What do you guys think?
Concerning anything else being modified, Dustin would have to answer that. I took the boat to Semper for the installation (he use to work for Whipple). On the first test run they burnt a piston and tulip a valve. Whipple reworked the engine, put restrictors in to get the water pressure up, ran it and gave it back to me. I know for a fact they took my boat out two days in a row to map the computer chips, so I guess you could say the computer was changed.
I always thought that fuel or water in the oil would change it enough to be noticeable. On the day we discovered it, my untrained eye could not detect it – but I could smell it.
Put the blowers back on and see what happens? I don’t think I’m going to get that past the wife – unless the Whipples want to sign a contract of some kind. Which is a great segue to my last point.
I don’t have any experience or technical knowledge on this subject. That’s why I went with a reputable big name who’s advertisement declared their system, “allows maximum performance to be obtained from a stock engine WITHOUT SACRIFICING RELIABILITY.” (emphasis added) “Every part is included for a SIMPLE BOLT-ON INSTALLATION.” (emphasis added again)
I didn’t stop there. I called members of this board and got referrals. I went to Fresno and toured their plant (see previous thread of mine). I had multiple phone conversations with Dustin emphasizing reliability was a big objective, not maximum performance.
Bottom line – They never worked right from the first throttle up and they only lasted two weeks.
Not a ramble at all, you highlight some good points. However, my problem in responding to technical question like these is – as everyone on the board knows – I have very little knowledge of motors etc. But I will try.
The gas in the fuel is not a theory – it was there! The person that discovered it is highly capable of making the call. How did it get in there, that’s the question for which my technical ability is short. However, I can still try logic! Such as, it wasn’t a problem before the blowers went on, it hasn’t been a problem since the blowers were taken off, therefore, I think it had something to do with the blowers. What do you guys think?
Concerning anything else being modified, Dustin would have to answer that. I took the boat to Semper for the installation (he use to work for Whipple). On the first test run they burnt a piston and tulip a valve. Whipple reworked the engine, put restrictors in to get the water pressure up, ran it and gave it back to me. I know for a fact they took my boat out two days in a row to map the computer chips, so I guess you could say the computer was changed.
I always thought that fuel or water in the oil would change it enough to be noticeable. On the day we discovered it, my untrained eye could not detect it – but I could smell it.
Put the blowers back on and see what happens? I don’t think I’m going to get that past the wife – unless the Whipples want to sign a contract of some kind. Which is a great segue to my last point.
I don’t have any experience or technical knowledge on this subject. That’s why I went with a reputable big name who’s advertisement declared their system, “allows maximum performance to be obtained from a stock engine WITHOUT SACRIFICING RELIABILITY.” (emphasis added) “Every part is included for a SIMPLE BOLT-ON INSTALLATION.” (emphasis added again)
I didn’t stop there. I called members of this board and got referrals. I went to Fresno and toured their plant (see previous thread of mine). I had multiple phone conversations with Dustin emphasizing reliability was a big objective, not maximum performance.
Bottom line – They never worked right from the first throttle up and they only lasted two weeks.
09-04-2002, 07:45 PM
#33
Charter Member
Aw heck, I want to play this game too
How about EGGBEATERS??????
Come on over to the dark side. That 26 would look BAD with 3 Bridgeports on the back
As for the past failure of the engines- Do you have any pics of the failed parts??? I do mechanical failure analysis for a living and I am really curious about the failure(this is the first I read about it). If there is anything I can do to please feel free to PM or email me.
I personally love working on small blocks so a project like yours would be cool.
How about EGGBEATERS??????
Come on over to the dark side. That 26 would look BAD with 3 Bridgeports on the back
As for the past failure of the engines- Do you have any pics of the failed parts??? I do mechanical failure analysis for a living and I am really curious about the failure(this is the first I read about it). If there is anything I can do to please feel free to PM or email me.
I personally love working on small blocks so a project like yours would be cool.
Last edited by Ted G; 09-04-2002 at 07:49 PM.
09-05-2002, 06:52 AM
#35
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UT- Got more questions. When motor let loose you were only turning 2500 rpm? Did I read this right in other thread?
I am getting the drift that when you are out in boat you are either at 65-70 mph or wide open. I do not remember reading this anywhere but am thinking this.
For orginal motor to burn piston & tulip valve I am guessing the A/F ratio was too lean & motor detonated. Thus the 2 days remaping ecu. Was this the motor that blew??
I am getting the drift that when you are out in boat you are either at 65-70 mph or wide open. I do not remember reading this anywhere but am thinking this.
For orginal motor to burn piston & tulip valve I am guessing the A/F ratio was too lean & motor detonated. Thus the 2 days remaping ecu. Was this the motor that blew??
09-05-2002, 08:33 AM
#36
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Insptech - Eggbeaters? Probably would be the optimal speed set up, but thin I’d have two strokes. Sorry, something about the inboards appeals to me.
Have pictures somewhere, they didn’t turn out very good but I will try and dig them up.
Appreciate the offer and might need to take you up on it.
TJ:
1) When the starboard engine blew I was running something like 4,000 rpm.
2) Didn’t run at wide open much as my wife was with me most of the time or I had kids onboard. We had a lot of people coming and going during that period. I typically ran it at 70mph to keep water pressure up.
3) Yep, it was the same motor – starboard.
Have pictures somewhere, they didn’t turn out very good but I will try and dig them up.
Appreciate the offer and might need to take you up on it.
TJ:
1) When the starboard engine blew I was running something like 4,000 rpm.
2) Didn’t run at wide open much as my wife was with me most of the time or I had kids onboard. We had a lot of people coming and going during that period. I typically ran it at 70mph to keep water pressure up.
3) Yep, it was the same motor – starboard.
09-05-2002, 09:29 AM
#37
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More questions.
You say to "keep water pressure up"? Are you having water pressure/volume problem? What was water temp before whipples? After whipples? Would temp go up when running hard? After running hard? (you get the gist) Is this why they (whipple & sempter??) think motor detonated just after getting whipple on because it got to hot? Did you have water pressure/temp issuses before.
You say to "keep water pressure up"? Are you having water pressure/volume problem? What was water temp before whipples? After whipples? Would temp go up when running hard? After running hard? (you get the gist) Is this why they (whipple & sempter??) think motor detonated just after getting whipple on because it got to hot? Did you have water pressure/temp issuses before.
09-05-2002, 10:27 AM
#38
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Buy a used 32 Skater. There is one for sale on Skater's website that has been there for some time. It is a late model, 5 step bottom design with 500s and Number 6 drives. They are asking around $200-$215 I think but it should sell for less than that. With 500s that boat will see 110mph all day long and be about as reliable as you can get in this sport.
Or, if you want to stay with the 26 Eliminator, call Pfaff and see what he recommends for the boat and your desire for speed, planing and reliability.
Good luck.
Oh, I'm sure Philip would be happy to teach you to run the 32 with 500s!
Or, if you want to stay with the 26 Eliminator, call Pfaff and see what he recommends for the boat and your desire for speed, planing and reliability.
Good luck.
Oh, I'm sure Philip would be happy to teach you to run the 32 with 500s!
09-05-2002, 11:16 AM
#39
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TJ – I love questions, don’t be shy! This is exactly why this board is so awesome. We can ask questions, share answers, give opinions, and hopefully learn. Sometimes it might sound a little tense while a debate rages – so what. We are not a bunch of school kids, we can take it – as long as it stays polite, professional, and factual – it’s all good!
My water pressure issue is a little over my head and possibly Dustin will need to correct me or fill in the blanks. Never the less, here’s how I understand it.
Heat being a big concern with blowers, they take out the thermostat and run the engine at a lower temp. In my case, I initially thought my temp gauges were disconnected because the engines were running at a temp below the bottom reading on the gauge. When I ran in the mid range, say 40mph to 60mph, I defiantly worried about water pressure. Semper had warned me about this when he gave me the boat back. I got confused because the temp was so low so I called Dustin who tried to explain it to me. He told me something to the effect that they need good water pressure to ensure no “steam pockets” develop. According to Art Whipple, this water pressure issue is what cause the burnt piston/tulip value. According to Semper, there is no water pressure issue, the problem was something else. Both parties expressed their side with strength and conviction!
Before the blowers I never had water pressure issues. After the blowers, when I have been hyper-sensitive to the issue, the water pressure has always been perfect – even with people in the open bow. I actually had the head rigger at Eliminator tell me my thru-hull water pick ups needed to be filed down as they are too big and scrubbing speed. However, even though the above is primarily fact, I would imagine putting on the blowers could cause additional needs.
My water pressure issue is a little over my head and possibly Dustin will need to correct me or fill in the blanks. Never the less, here’s how I understand it.
Heat being a big concern with blowers, they take out the thermostat and run the engine at a lower temp. In my case, I initially thought my temp gauges were disconnected because the engines were running at a temp below the bottom reading on the gauge. When I ran in the mid range, say 40mph to 60mph, I defiantly worried about water pressure. Semper had warned me about this when he gave me the boat back. I got confused because the temp was so low so I called Dustin who tried to explain it to me. He told me something to the effect that they need good water pressure to ensure no “steam pockets” develop. According to Art Whipple, this water pressure issue is what cause the burnt piston/tulip value. According to Semper, there is no water pressure issue, the problem was something else. Both parties expressed their side with strength and conviction!
Before the blowers I never had water pressure issues. After the blowers, when I have been hyper-sensitive to the issue, the water pressure has always been perfect – even with people in the open bow. I actually had the head rigger at Eliminator tell me my thru-hull water pick ups needed to be filed down as they are too big and scrubbing speed. However, even though the above is primarily fact, I would imagine putting on the blowers could cause additional needs.
