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I wonder if the Parvey,s or Coolerman changed step placement or hull design on they,re Black Thunder when it was born a maybe 70 mph boat to a 160+ mph boat , just wondering ??
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I know Parveys have changed all kinds of things. This has been a hobby of there's, very neat to see a father son team work together like they have.
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Originally Posted by hustlerguy
(Post 4586702)
Because they like to have competition and a challenge of winning. Its fairly well known the guys on the Instigator team and the OL team are friends every day and on the race course compete for more than anything bragging rights. Most of us have buddies with that same spirit in us.
Power boat Racing may be somewhat of a proving ground, kinda sorta. (how many people are buying new boats with spec 750 HP motors? Stepped hull designs change drastically with the type of speeds they are designed to run. A stepped hull designed to run 120 mph will not work that well at 140 mph, step placement is important for the right leverage points on a boat to be stable, and fast. Put a set of 2000 hp motors in a boat designed to have 750 hp motors and its probably not going to work. Changing the attitude also plays a big role in how the steps work. Speed, drive heights, prop types, weight distribution will all play a role whether or not the steps are in the right spots.) A boat designed to run 1350's probably wont run as good as it should with 700's and vice versa. That is why Race boats mean something but don't, they are constantly taking time to find the sweet spot. Some setups work good in the rough, some work good in the flat very few are the best for everything. Instigator boat has had years to fine tune it and obviously has found a pretty sweet spot. People like to throw out it is a 12 year old boat. Well yes it was originally made 12 years ago, and they changed it, upgraded it for 12 years straight now. (taking zero away from them, in fact that is awesome that they keep on working at it) The OL 43 boat got made and probably had the bottom setup somewhere where they guessed it may be good. Not for the speeds of a 1350 boat, and not for the speed of a 700 boat but somewhere in the middle. They continue to make changes for the past 11 months to make it better for racing with those engines HP and speeds, acceleration on that syle course. Once again if you think your going to buy a new boat with the setup of any brand race boat, please reconsider your expectations. I'm going to venture out on a limb and say very very few people ever went to a boat race and thought man that boat ran good I'm going to buy that brand boat and get THAT SAME BOAT. If someone did, I got alot of things to sell you. Being in races does give exposure and name recognition for sure. Why dont more play in the arena? Because its not a winning venture, you would spend way way more money on racing then then you ever would get back. If it was more lucrative more would race in a series, this is why the fleet of boats is so small, its people with disposable income, there not trying to make money doing boat racing. Most people are buying boats because they saw one or rode in one and liked how it worked or looked or both, or there buddy told them it was a great boat, or it was affordable or many other reasons. Race course influence I would say is on the lower end of what influenced others to buy. IMO opinion this is the old school real race course. lets see who can compete in this race! Still Going Great Take nascar as a example. No one should go see a nascar race and say man that Chevrolet sured kicked but Sunday, I'm going to go buy one of them. Why do teams like Dodge pull out of that series? They spend more money than they get back by a long shot. |
Originally Posted by TYPHOON
(Post 4586695)
If no one gives a crap about racing why would OL even be out there. I will help you out with this one. Racing is a proving ground that lets you see how you compare to others with equal specs. Very few manufactures
even dare to play in this arena because IMO they don't want to look bad. IMO winning race manufactures do help sell boats. If Skater, MTI, OL, Fountain, Activator, Superboat didn't dominate on the race course they may never have gotten the exposure to be where they are today IMO |
I'd assume from race to race each are changing things, Instigator seems to have cooper standard beat as of lately.
Kilo... Loaded question here! I will give my opinions and why, so don't kill me over them if you dont agree. OL and Fountain both set there perspective records with similar HP motors and the best equipment at the time. I believe at the time fountain held the record they had a faster kilo boat, since then I believe OL built a kilo boat that was faster with similar power. I also believe neither OL or Fountain Kilo boat are fully stock production boats either. They are purpose built boats, so no one is going to buy a boat just like the Kilo boat from either company from the factory. (If we want to talk factory built boats, I've written the numbers that are factual the current OL speeds with same engine packages from 700-1350 boats are approx 10-13 mph faster than the last time fountain made a new power boat or was re rigged with that power plant) Now that said, both Kilo boats had similar power, The OL went approx 10 mph faster than the Fountain and they hold the record at this time and have for several years now. Can someone build a faster boat? I'm sure. Fountain is supposed to be building a 40' Kilo boat with over 2000 HP per side from sterling. That is about 300-350 hp more per side than both boats had during there past kilo runs. If they can get the boat set up and add another 700 hp to the boat it should scream. But if they can beat the OL record (and they should with that much power) that leaves the door open does OL want to come back with the same HP or more and go again. So once again the Kilo becomes a game of who wants to spend more money and time and HP. One big difference between Fountain and OL is Reggie in the past has been willing to spend everything to have a giant race budget, OL has been more conservative and more worried about making money and customers boats. Building a Kilo boat is a expensive venture and very little reward or payback for either company. Alot of bragging rights! |
Originally Posted by Interceptor
(Post 4586710)
Sure there will always be someone to lay down the money to race but when was the last time real factory teams raced the best equipment available against each other for a significant number of races over a significant number of years? I'm thinking the boats you mention get their exposure more on the poker run circuit when existing offshore boat owners are looking to upgrade. Doubt many spectators on the beach at offshore races go out and buy any of the boats you mention.
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Originally Posted by hustlerguy
(Post 4586712)
Agree 100%
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Originally Posted by hustlerguy
(Post 4586711)
I'd assume from race to race each are changing things, Instigator seems to have cooper standard beat as of lately.
Kilo... Loaded question here! I will give my opinions and why, so don't kill me over them if you dont agree. OL and Fountain both set there perspective records with similar HP motors and the best equipment at the time. I believe at the time fountain held the record they had a faster kilo boat, since then I believe OL built a kilo boat that was faster with similar power. I also believe neither OL or Fountain Kilo boat are fully stock production boats either. They are purpose built boats, so no one is going to buy a boat just like the Kilo boat from either company from the factory. (If we want to talk factory built boats, I've written the numbers that are factual the current OL speeds with same engine packages from 700-1350 boats are approx 10-13 mph faster than the last time fountain made a new power boat or was re rigged with that power plant) Now that said, both Kilo boats had similar power, The OL went approx 10 mph faster than the Fountain and they hold the record at this time and have for several years now. Can someone build a faster boat? I'm sure. Fountain is supposed to be building a 40' Kilo boat with over 2000 HP per side from sterling. That is about 300-350 hp more per side than both boats had during there past kilo runs. If they can get the boat set up and add another 700 hp to the boat it should scream. But if they can beat the OL record (and they should with that much power) that leaves the door open does OL want to come back with the same HP or more and go again. So once again the Kilo becomes a game of who wants to spend more money and time and HP. One big difference between Fountain and OL is Reggie in the past has been willing to spend everything to have a giant race budget, OL has been more conservative and more worried about making money and customers boats. Building a Kilo boat is a expensive venture and very little reward or payback for either company. Alot of bragging rights! |
What a thread.
For my part, I'm just glad to have more than one boat to cover in this class this year. |
There is 8 boats in that super v extreme class that were ever built that I know of that are still around & competitive
hooters amh construction Cooper std rio roses freedom outer-limits has 2 boats honey party/geico caveman lucas oil skater until you have a full showing of boat in this class you can't put a comparison on table to who what where & when is the best & the fastest that's why superboat class with sthl,jimmy,whm & ect is so much fun to watch, is the only reason jimmy fast because of JT??? I'm sure that's part of it but other teams have the potential to be rite there with them in a blink |
One observation I had when I was walking around the dry pits a couple years ago was that I couldn't believe how small and cut down those fountains seemed, and extremely narrow in the stern . The outer limits race boat looked huge compared to them
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Originally Posted by TYPHOON
(Post 4586803)
I agree with all your statements. But my real question was top Kilo speed with the race boats in the Super boat class with there specs. I'm trying to compare the existing race boats. Thanks for keeping this conversation educational all !!!!
What kind of water flat, chop, waves, head on or side to side waves. All those things should make a big difference. Unless the water is flat like they usually use for the kilo runs they can t just push the throttles forward and let it go. I wouldnt think any of these race boats ever set up for nice flat water so that would probably be different setup than any of the teams have really ever set up the boat for. Even if the course is flat the boats still end up with wakes and chop from the other boats on the race course. If I had to guess they all could get really close # to each other on a top speed kilo run as long as conditions were the same for everyone. |
Originally Posted by ARCTIC1
(Post 4586824)
There is 8 boats in that super v extreme class that were ever built that I know of that are still around & competitive
hooters amh construction Cooper std rio roses freedom outer-limits has 2 boats honey party/geico caveman lucas oil skater until you have a full showing of boat in this class you can't put a comparison on table to who what where & when is the best & the fastest that's why superboat class with sthl,jimmy,whm & ect is so much fun to watch, is the only reason jimmy fast because of JT??? I'm sure that's part of it but other teams have the potential to be rite there with them in a blink |
Randy, to answer ur question in a spec class with the same motors Fountain hands done pound for pound is the faster boat.
The concept of other boat racing in the class is doubtful, the reason being the Fountains are just to fast. They have proved it yr after yr. You can go back to the old F2 days they dominated so bad that all the other manufacturers that had tried to compete just gave up. Fountain has single-handedly put an end too numerous offshore race classes whether it was F1 F2 or Super V. |
Originally Posted by F1-00 Racing
(Post 4586562)
The direct answer to Typhoons question is the pad design.
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Twisted metal in p class?
anyone know why twisted metal changed classes ?
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Originally Posted by flat rate
(Post 4587082)
anyone know why twisted metal changed classes ?
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from the outside looking in I would contribute a lot of instigators success to Kenny Adams he is one of the best crew members in the business top notch guy
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Originally Posted by ba17a
(Post 4587182)
from the outside looking in I would contribute a lot of instigators success to Kenny Adams he is one of the best crew members in the business top notch guy
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R3 just popped the hull out the mold for the kilo boat yesterday. looks like the same mold the race boats come fun just really cut down.
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Originally Posted by caseyh
(Post 4587476)
R3 just popped the hull out the mold for the kilo boat yesterday. looks like the same mold the race boats come fun just really cut down.
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Think that means the hull will be cut after it was built in the mold. Less wind drag. The smaller the mass moving through the air around it will have less drag. Now I'm sure the deck on this cut down hull will give only the amount of down force needed on a padded step hull to hold it safely on the water. My best guess! I've been wrong before
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Originally Posted by mr. freeze
(Post 4587478)
When you say cut down, what exactly are you saying? Like what measurements are cut down?
The sides (freeboard) of the boat. Not much beak left to it and very low in the back. Looks great though. He isn't holding back on the pictures Shows all the bulk heads and all. |
Originally Posted by caseyh
(Post 4587520)
The sides (freeboard) of the boat. Not much beak left to it and very low in the back. Looks great though. He isn't holding back on the pictures Shows all the bulk heads and all.
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I'm sure Reggie will build another rocketship, that's just what Fountain does.
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Fast hands fountain 42 PR is the fastest v hull poker runner in the world with only 1150hp a side, 156mph.
Although factory billet and coolerman went faster at the shootout. I'd guess factory billet is potentially the fastest V right now, 1950hp x2. |
Originally Posted by hogie roll
(Post 4587604)
Fast hands fountain 42 PR is the fastest v hull poker runner in the world with only 1150hp a side, 156mph.
Although factory billet and coolerman went faster at the shootout. I'd guess factory billet is potentially the fastest V right now, 1950hp x2. Any Pics of "Fast Hands" Fountain 42 PR ??? That sounds incredible. MDS |
Originally Posted by mikesufka
(Post 4587668)
Any Pics of "Fast Hands" Fountain 42 PR ??? That sounds incredible.
MDS
Originally Posted by hogie roll
(Post 4587604)
Fast hands fountain 42 PR is the fastest v hull poker runner in the world with only 1150hp a side, 156mph.
Although factory billet and coolerman went faster at the shootout. I'd guess factory billet is potentially the fastest V right now, 1950hp x2. |
Originally Posted by Bullhead
(Post 4587677)
Yes I would be curious to see that boat as well.....The Saratoga Stampede with 1200's on its best day was 10 mph slower and that had to be one of the most dialed in Fountains ever.....the OL SV43s with 1350s are running in the low 150s....Fast Hands must be one crazy dialed in boat
https://youtu.be/9r_3g2xRs4g |
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Originally Posted by Bullhead
(Post 4587677)
Yes I would be curious to see that boat as well.....The Saratoga Stampede with 1200's on its best day was 10 mph slower and that had to be one of the most dialed in Fountains ever.....the OL SV43s with 1350s are running in the low 150s....Fast Hands must be one crazy dialed in boat
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Originally Posted by hogie roll
(Post 4587687)
I've heard even 1075 lightnings can run 140. Any of the 1075 poker runs would be good for 140 stock.
https://youtu.be/9r_3g2xRs4g I've got 2 friends who have stock 42's lightings with 1075's both are 120 ish + or - 2 mph boats. 42 PR There was one at LOTO for sale this summer with 1075's I'm pretty sure (not 100% sure on exact # though) I was told it would run honestly between 132-133 which I think is a very very respectable #. |
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...tar97638_3.gif
Saratoga Stamped , 08-29-2011 02:59 PM Quote: Originally Posted by OL40SVX Billy Betz in his Outerlimits SV 43 is the fastest vee bottom as of now at LOTO with a 140mph pass. The boat is a full canopied boat with 1075s and number 6's! The boat will run past 140 given more room to stretch her legs!! It takes alot of talent to navigate a V Bottom >135, I have alot of respenct to the OL team this weeked. Congrats to the success of the Outerlimits SV 43 at LOTO. I had a chance to watch this boat run on the course and what a showcase at the dock!. I am sure with a longer stretch it would pick up some addtional MPH. When I had the 1075 package in our open canopy 42 fountain poker run, it was tested in Powerboat at 144-146. Then when we converted to a full canopy Pleasure-Race Boat ( stereo/AC and 4 seats), it would top `150+, but the best we could do in a mile at LOTO was 139. Then in the fall of 2010, we changed the Merc Motors out to the new 1200, preparing for KW, the testing speeds were improved again. It was aquired, before KW, and has a new home in Trinidad, on the OS racing circuit The 2011 LOTO was a wonderful event, and the performance of this OL-43 was outstanding. It will soon be time to start snowmobiling Doc J Denver |
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[QUOTE=Billy boats;4587736]
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/c...ar106413_2.gif billy boats , 03-03-2017 12:42 AM My boat is a poker run edition , yes it has the most current step bottom . With my current engines with 1150 hp tune I ran 156 mph With the previous engines 146 mph[\QUOTE] |
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back when the 1075 first came out bill Mazzionis pleasure 42 went mid to high 130s
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The OL guys keep digging and hoping. Reminds me of Ferrari guys when they have their butts handed to them on the track by Vettes! It’s comical and entertaining. Lol
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I dont think anyone can deny that a specific fountain can go a stated speed as long as its recorded otherwise anyone can throw any # out there. But because a specific boat went a certain speed doesnt mean they all go that fast. There seems to be some extra speed in a v bottom boat that certain people in the industry can find, 2 people off the top of my head come to mind. It has been well documented over the years one particular man has done many fountain and some OL boats and he has done other brands as well. Guys have sent there boats to him and miraculously he is able to find 5-10-15+ mph more speed from the boat. That is awesome! IMO that person deserves the credit not the brand of boat.
That does not mean all boats run those speeds and that is not brand specific. All 43 OL's with 1650's wont run 180+ mph All Black thunders wont run 160+ mph All fountains wont run whatever # you want to put on it unless it's been modified like the other boat that did run that #. One friend got his fountain 1075 test report from leaving factory. 126 mph is what it said and not unloaded with everything, props probably arent perfect but normally it will run 120 + or -. Of course some 42's have gone 135 or 140 but that is not how most left the factory unless Reggie did a little extra magic to that specific boat in the setup (which I'm sure happened from time to time for some $ or course). I guess my point was not brand specific by any means, because you can find one boat of any brand who went a certain speed (more than most of that exact boat) with a stated motor package doesn't mean they all should go that fast. No matter what brand if one boat normally goes 140 and another one goes 155 I will guarantee you alot of work has been done to the bottom of the boat, drive heights, props, possibly the balance of the weight in the boat and probably the power is bumped up as well. The gains credit then belongs to the guy who changed the boat not necessarily the brand. When the Parveys run big #'s at the LOTO shootout I dont ever hear people giving credit to Black thunder for building such a fast boat. It's always people giving credit to the Parveys for changing the boat and making it that fast. I hope no one went to go buy a Black thunder boat hoping it was going to go as fast as the Parveys. |
We just pulled the new Fountain kilo boat from the mold this week. A few more weeks of glass work & then on to rigging & then going to put up some big numbers.
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Originally Posted by caseyh
(Post 4587520)
The sides (freeboard) of the boat. Not much beak left to it and very low in the back. Looks great though. He isn't holding back on the pictures Shows all the bulk heads and all.
would really like to have these pics over here on oso, especially since the thread is going well and with very little bashing. a lot of us want to see it in it's present state and along the way as well. |
That Fountain definitely hauls ass....fast forward to 14:30 |
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