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Fountain vs Outer L racing

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Old 10-07-2017, 01:27 PM
  #41
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I wonder if the Parvey,s or Coolerman changed step placement or hull design on they,re Black Thunder when it was born a maybe 70 mph boat to a 160+ mph boat , just wondering ??

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Old 10-07-2017, 01:44 PM
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I know Parveys have changed all kinds of things. This has been a hobby of there's, very neat to see a father son team work together like they have.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:03 PM
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Because they like to have competition and a challenge of winning. Its fairly well known the guys on the Instigator team and the OL team are friends every day and on the race course compete for more than anything bragging rights. Most of us have buddies with that same spirit in us.

Power boat Racing may be somewhat of a proving ground, kinda sorta. (how many people are buying new boats with spec 750 HP motors? Stepped hull designs change drastically with the type of speeds they are designed to run. A stepped hull designed to run 120 mph will not work that well at 140 mph, step placement is important for the right leverage points on a boat to be stable, and fast. Put a set of 2000 hp motors in a boat designed to have 750 hp motors and its probably not going to work. Changing the attitude also plays a big role in how the steps work. Speed, drive heights, prop types, weight distribution will all play a role whether or not the steps are in the right spots.) A boat designed to run 1350's probably wont run as good as it should with 700's and vice versa. That is why Race boats mean something but don't, they are constantly taking time to find the sweet spot. Some setups work good in the rough, some work good in the flat very few are the best for everything. Instigator boat has had years to fine tune it and obviously has found a pretty sweet spot. People like to throw out it is a 12 year old boat. Well yes it was originally made 12 years ago, and they changed it, upgraded it for 12 years straight now. (taking zero away from them, in fact that is awesome that they keep on working at it) The OL 43 boat got made and probably had the bottom setup somewhere where they guessed it may be good. Not for the speeds of a 1350 boat, and not for the speed of a 700 boat but somewhere in the middle. They continue to make changes for the past 11 months to make it better for racing with those engines HP and speeds, acceleration on that syle course. Once again if you think your going to buy a new boat with the setup of any brand race boat, please reconsider your expectations.
I'm going to venture out on a limb and say very very few people ever went to a boat race and thought man that boat ran good I'm going to buy that brand boat and get THAT SAME BOAT. If someone did, I got alot of things to sell you.
Being in races does give exposure and name recognition for sure.
Why dont more play in the arena? Because its not a winning venture, you would spend way way more money on racing then then you ever would get back. If it was more lucrative more would race in a series, this is why the fleet of boats is so small, its people with disposable income, there not trying to make money doing boat racing.
Most people are buying boats because they saw one or rode in one and liked how it worked or looked or both, or there buddy told them it was a great boat, or it was affordable or many other reasons. Race course influence I would say is on the lower end of what influenced others to buy.

IMO opinion this is the old school real race course. lets see who can compete in this race! Still Going Great

Take nascar as a example. No one should go see a nascar race and say man that Chevrolet sured kicked but Sunday, I'm going to go buy one of them.
Why do teams like Dodge pull out of that series? They spend more money than they get back by a long shot.
Back to why one is winning you make some good points. Has the Instigator or Cooper boats been getting faster each year? Any idea of what speed gains they have achieved in the last 4 years the class has been around. Forget racing, just pure all out Kilo speed who would win that ?
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:40 PM
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If no one gives a crap about racing why would OL even be out there. I will help you out with this one. Racing is a proving ground that lets you see how you compare to others with equal specs. Very few manufactures
even dare to play in this arena because IMO they don't want to look bad. IMO winning race manufactures do help sell boats. If Skater, MTI, OL, Fountain, Activator, Superboat didn't dominate on the race course they may never have gotten the exposure to be where they are today IMO
Sure there will always be someone to lay down the money to race but when was the last time real factory teams raced the best equipment available against each other for a significant number of races over a significant number of years? I'm thinking the boats you mention get their exposure more on the poker run circuit when existing offshore boat owners are looking to upgrade. Doubt many spectators on the beach at offshore races go out and buy any of the boats you mention.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:42 PM
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I'd assume from race to race each are changing things, Instigator seems to have cooper standard beat as of lately.

Kilo... Loaded question here! I will give my opinions and why, so don't kill me over them if you dont agree.

OL and Fountain both set there perspective records with similar HP motors and the best equipment at the time.

I believe at the time fountain held the record they had a faster kilo boat, since then I believe OL built a kilo boat that was faster with similar power. I also believe neither OL or Fountain Kilo boat are fully stock production boats either. They are purpose built boats, so no one is going to buy a boat just like the Kilo boat from either company from the factory. (If we want to talk factory built boats, I've written the numbers that are factual the current OL speeds with same engine packages from 700-1350 boats are approx 10-13 mph faster than the last time fountain made a new power boat or was re rigged with that power plant)

Now that said, both Kilo boats had similar power, The OL went approx 10 mph faster than the Fountain and they hold the record at this time and have for several years now.

Can someone build a faster boat? I'm sure. Fountain is supposed to be building a 40' Kilo boat with over 2000 HP per side from sterling. That is about 300-350 hp more per side than both boats had during there past kilo runs. If they can get the boat set up and add another 700 hp to the boat it should scream. But if they can beat the OL record (and they should with that much power) that leaves the door open does OL want to come back with the same HP or more and go again. So once again the Kilo becomes a game of who wants to spend more money and time and HP.
One big difference between Fountain and OL is Reggie in the past has been willing to spend everything to have a giant race budget, OL has been more conservative and more worried about making money and customers boats.
Building a Kilo boat is a expensive venture and very little reward or payback for either company. Alot of bragging rights!
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:43 PM
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Sure there will always be someone to lay down the money to race but when was the last time real factory teams raced the best equipment available against each other for a significant number of races over a significant number of years? I'm thinking the boats you mention get their exposure more on the poker run circuit when existing offshore boat owners are looking to upgrade. Doubt many spectators on the beach at offshore races go out and buy any of the boats you mention.
Agree 100%
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Old 10-07-2017, 08:05 PM
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Agree 100%
and now I see we will ultimately just have to agree to disagree!

Last edited by precisiondetails; 10-08-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:38 AM
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I'd assume from race to race each are changing things, Instigator seems to have cooper standard beat as of lately.

Kilo... Loaded question here! I will give my opinions and why, so don't kill me over them if you dont agree.

OL and Fountain both set there perspective records with similar HP motors and the best equipment at the time.

I believe at the time fountain held the record they had a faster kilo boat, since then I believe OL built a kilo boat that was faster with similar power. I also believe neither OL or Fountain Kilo boat are fully stock production boats either. They are purpose built boats, so no one is going to buy a boat just like the Kilo boat from either company from the factory. (If we want to talk factory built boats, I've written the numbers that are factual the current OL speeds with same engine packages from 700-1350 boats are approx 10-13 mph faster than the last time fountain made a new power boat or was re rigged with that power plant)

Now that said, both Kilo boats had similar power, The OL went approx 10 mph faster than the Fountain and they hold the record at this time and have for several years now.

Can someone build a faster boat? I'm sure. Fountain is supposed to be building a 40' Kilo boat with over 2000 HP per side from sterling. That is about 300-350 hp more per side than both boats had during there past kilo runs. If they can get the boat set up and add another 700 hp to the boat it should scream. But if they can beat the OL record (and they should with that much power) that leaves the door open does OL want to come back with the same HP or more and go again. So once again the Kilo becomes a game of who wants to spend more money and time and HP.
One big difference between Fountain and OL is Reggie in the past has been willing to spend everything to have a giant race budget, OL has been more conservative and more worried about making money and customers boats.
Building a Kilo boat is a expensive venture and very little reward or payback for either company. Alot of bragging rights!
I agree with all your statements. But my real question was top Kilo speed with the race boats in the Super boat class with there specs. I'm trying to compare the existing race boats. Thanks for keeping this conversation educational all !!!!
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:58 AM
  #49
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What a thread.

For my part, I'm just glad to have more than one boat to cover in this class this year.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:40 PM
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There is 8 boats in that super v extreme class that were ever built that I know of that are still around & competitive

hooters amh construction
Cooper std
rio roses
freedom
outer-limits has 2 boats
honey party/geico caveman
lucas oil skater

until you have a full showing of boat in this class you can't put a comparison on table to who what where & when is the best & the fastest
that's why superboat class with sthl,jimmy,whm & ect is so much fun to watch,
is the only reason jimmy fast because of JT??? I'm sure that's part of it but other teams have the potential to be rite there with them in a blink
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