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Gladiator price hike!!

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Old 01-29-2020 | 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by offshoredrillin
not quite the same as a 6/blower boat, but the point is taken. some people only see the "41 apache" part

Correct...... the same way they "overlook a fresh myco" vs a yard trailer.......technically they both "have trailers"
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Old 01-29-2020 | 02:58 PM
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First:
Good clean and or updated higher end stepped boats especially low production runs from 2000-2009 are going to all see continued solid prices.
Basic supply and demand. The last 10 years saw an 80-90% drop of production for V-Bottom Performance boats. Then add to that the constantly skyrocketing prices of new boats.

Second:
There have not been huge advancements in bottom design and materials like there were in the early 2000's.
The Vintage wave crushers from the 80's and 90's tug at our heartstrings but cost a fortune to power and maintain if you want to truly go fast.
My 17 year old ZRC (HP for HP) will still run right up there with a similar 2020 Cig, Donzi, Outerlimits.
A 1993 38 Top Gun only 10 years older than my boat (HP for HP) can't even come close to running with me.
Old school boat building died in the late 90's when technology and computer design kicked in.
Advancements in designs like steps, notches, and running surfaces were better understood and incorporated.
New materials like carbon fiber, epoxies, and processes like vacuum bagging took over.
There was a huge change followed by a huge economy boom.
The design and build technology peaked and we have only seen minor tweaks and changes over the past 10-15 years.

Last edited by Tom A.; 01-29-2020 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 01-29-2020 | 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom A.
First:
Good clean and or updated higher end stepped boats especially low production runs from 2000-2009 are going to all see continued solid prices.
Basic supply and demand. The last 10 years saw an 80-90% drop of production for V-Bottom Performance boats. Then add to that the constantly skyrocketing prices of new boats.

Second:
There have not been huge advancements in bottom design and materials like there were in the early 2000's.
The Vintage wave crushers from the 80's and 90's tug at our heartstrings but cost a fortune to power and maintain if you want to truly go fast.
My 17 year old ZRC (HP for HP) will still run right up there with a similar 2020 Cig, Donzi, Outerlimits.
A 1993 38 Top Gun only 10 years older than my boat (HP for HP) can't even come close to running with me.
Old school boat building died in the late 90's when technology and computer design kicked in.
Advancements in designs like steps, notches, and running surfaces were better understood and incorporated.
New materials like carbon fiber, epoxies, and processes like vacuum bagging took over.
There was a huge change followed by a huge economy boom.
The design and build technology peaked and we have only seen minor tweaks and changes over the past 10-15 years.

Kind of piggybacking on what yous said, but the newer tech allows boats of greater lengths to be able to run faster with less HP than straight bottom boats. When you start doing the math it makes sense. Heres some numbers:

SL44 and SL41 Outerlimits will run anywhere from 112-116 with full cabins, standup head/shower, AC etc...... on stock Mercury 700's that will go 250 hours before top ends and 400 before total rebuild.

Straight bottom 38 or 42 Cigarette would probably need to be pushing 1200 a side to run the same speeds. With 1200's, figure top ends at 80 hours and total rebuilds at 150.

So to run 450 hours, youve done 3 top ends and 3 complete rebuilds on the 1200's as compared to one top end and one rebuild with the Merc 700's.

I would be willing to guess that if you paid $300K for the Outerlimits and $150k for the old Cigarette, that at the end of using it for a couple hundred hours, the Cigarette has actually cost more out of pocket to own.

It's the same principle that they use to sell new construction equipment. I've heard numerous guys say that the montlhy fuel/maintenance savings alone will more than offset the higher monthly payment for running new stuff as compared to old dinasaurs.



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Old 01-29-2020 | 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Marginmn

Just a reminder - there are other sit-down options
Gorgeous!

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Old 01-29-2020 | 08:05 PM
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When Cig is charging $3.5mil for that Tierra thing and Mercury $250k for a power package then the used market prices go thru the roof.
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Old 01-30-2020 | 04:47 AM
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7 years ago no one was buying performance boats and everyone said the sport was dead. There was an average of 100 used boats for sale in all the major brands. 5 years ago it started to change and open bow was and still is the rage. 3 years ago when the economy really took off alot of guys wanted back in along with some new buyers. It's way too expensive to go new so the used market exploded. Even if you bought an older twin step and put a bunch of money into it it's still way cheaper than new. Top guns are super hot and had a huge increase in price, gladiators and even tigers have seen a modest increase. There's really no one making an entry level performance boat that's affordable so I believe the used ones will keep going up in value. No one believed when I said it 5 years ago but here we are
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Old 01-30-2020 | 05:34 AM
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Define affordable entry level ...
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Old 01-30-2020 | 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Drock78
Define affordable entry level ...
I would say 250k and under and that's still a huge monthly payment.

Last edited by outlw36; 01-30-2020 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 01-30-2020 | 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by outlw36
7 years ago no one was buying performance boats and everyone said the sport was dead. There was an average of 100 used boats for sale in all the major brands. 5 years ago it started to change and open bow was and still is the rage. 3 years ago when the economy really took off alot of guys wanted back in along with some new buyers. It's way too expensive to go new so the used market exploded. Even if you bought an older twin step and put a bunch of money into it it's still way cheaper than new. Top guns are super hot and had a huge increase in price, gladiators and even tigers have seen a modest increase. There's really no one making an entry level performance boat that's affordable so I believe the used ones will keep going up in value. No one believed when I said it 5 years ago but here we are
Some valid points and don't forget a 2000 TS TG and a 2020 TS TG are identical with the exception of a dash update.

Your theory on "going up in value" has 3 major caveats:

1. Economy has to keep roaring
2. Boats will hit an "update wall." At some point no matter how nice it is, the paint/motors will need updating which will hurt the resale. If a rough 2000 TS TG is 100K and a guy dumps 100K into it that won't make it a 200K boat if that 2015 red/white just sold for 270K or less (it had small power 520s and bravo 3's for the joystick system).
https://www.performanceboatcenter.co...OwnedInventory
3. FInancing/ Insurance.......as all these boats are get older, banks won't finance them so they will dip into cash only territory. Insurance will get more selective on older boats. Who will finance a 1990 Apache now and then what happens if the owner can't get the boat insured?

I see it leveling out, but I wouldn't bet on buying to sell for a profit later no matter what the brand/size/power. Mass produced boats will continue to drop (Baja/Fountain). Look at PBC, they have 2 Fountains/5 Bajas in stock vs. 6 MTIs/12 Cigs. The newer more custom stuff will sell for big money, the older mass produced stuff won't.
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Old 01-30-2020 | 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by outlw36
I would say 250k and under and that's still a huge monthly payment.
Active Thunder
Fountain/Baja
Saber
Powerquest
And I'm sure there are others. These were top of mind.
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