Are cats really that dangerous??
 

So as the title implies...I'm wondering if modern cats are really as scary and dangerous as people and insurance companies make them out to be? I consider myself a pretty experienced boater and I just have this thought in my head as I've never driven cats always vees that you'll be cruising at 80-90 whatever having a great day them BAM gust of wind or a little wrong wave and you flipped over and died. Obviously there are probably 10's of thousands if not more pleasure cats out there and a lot with more money than brains behind the wheel and they seem to be ok....just wondering if it's all hype like the "stepped boats always spin out in corners" argument or if they are inherently much more dangerous of a boat to drive?

Say for instance a 36 eliminator with blower motors, or a DW with outboards, or a Nor-tech supercat or whatever production type cat you can think of...is it possible to take it out and use it like I would use a normal vee performance boat on Lake Michigan or do you have to not go out if it's windy or choppy or whatever?

May seem like a stupid topic but it seems in the insurance company's eyes it's not a matter of if but when you wreck it so I'm wondering what's driving that? Is it that they are a little more dangerous especially in the wrong hands but an experienced boater would be fine or is it that vees are just a lot more forgiving and you can get away with a lack of experience better or something else?

Insurance companies are looking a speed capability and replacement cost more then anything when comes to the outboard cat market. You owe it to yourself to go out in a 32+ foot cat and experience the difference of going over the water rather then through it. I have had lots of Vees and lots of cats over the years and don't see myself with another V-bottom unless I can someday swing getting a 45 or 50 NorTech.

Joe

Good to know! So would you say you feel more stable in a cat? Say in like 2-3 footers? I would think it would just glide over them but in the back of my mind I just see disaster hahaha I have a buddy that just picked up a DW with twin 450r's and I'm hoping to catch a ride in it this summer.

Would you say the ride is similar in an OB cat vs an IO? Sorry for all the questions just trying to wrap my head around it all haha

The ride is very different in an inboard cat vs an outboard cat. The outboard cats are very flighty and the outboard cats are much more solid. It's just plain physics, the 32' - 44' outboard cats are all in the 4,000 - 6,500 pound range and the similar sized inboard cats are all in the 8,000 - 13,000 pound range. There's no comparison in ride quality, and proof of that is the average race speeds at the offshore races. I started a thread about it a while back, it should answer all your questions of the inboard vs outboard cat argument (just skip through the bickering, the time sheets don't lie).

And just a little background on my personal experience, I converted my former 30' Skater from inboard (7,100#s) to outboard (4,300#s) and it was a drastic difference in how it rode in rough water.

Outboard cats vs inboard cats in the rough - Offshoreonly.com

Will check it out thanks!! Just trying to gauge if one will ever be in my realm of thinking...I use it strictly for pleasure and would like to do some poker runs...just don't want to buy a "death trap" as the woman puts it hahaha figured I would ask the brain trust here

Thanks for the link to that can't believe I missed that....great information in there thank you!!

Also curious if anyone on the boards that sees this has an IO cat on lake michigan...around the southwest michigan/chicago area that would be willing to let me tag along for a ride? I'll pay for fuel just would like to ride in one to see what I may be getting into

I will be interested to see what your thoughts are after running a light weight outboard boat (what boat did your buddy buy?). For lake Michigan use, (I lived and boated Grand Haven and all of West Michigan for 30 years), you won't beat a 40' to 50' inboard cat if you can afford the insurance, fuel, maintenance, and repairs. The next issue is repair time Vs. simple performance boating (I logged over 600 hours on my outboards last year, I logged 20 on my inboard boat and its still down waiting for a motor to come back). For insurance on a new 42 DW with 1100s I was quoted $27,000 a year with use restrictions. My new 42 DW outboard policy is 9,000, my 36 DW is 7,000, and my 32 DW is also 7,000. If my 36 and 32 had 400s instead of 450s, they would be in the "below 130 mph speed bracket" and insurance would be half of what I currently pay. All of my outboard boats are under warranty for 8 years....It's very clear to me why there are so many outboard cats in high demand but the cost of them has gone crazy as well.

Joe

Not to up on the OB cat world but its a DW or Wright Performance or whatever...says Wright on the side hahaha I'll post a pic

I am 100% sure I would be in the IO used cat market....for the reason of like you said OB cats have gone insane in price and frankly they really are not that appealing to me...I'm an old school screaming big block kind of guy which as you said has it's costs. I understand the appeal of the OB's they are just not really for me unless it was an old skater with like 300's or something on it as I do like the nostalgia of those for sure.

I wouldn't be looking for huge power or speed numbers....100-110 is plenty for me I was more concerned with the ride and useability. I see now that a lot of the big IO cats are pretty heavy and take a lot of power to run but I would likely be in the sub 40 ft range so that might allow me to run a more "reliable" less aggressive powerplant. I do all my own work and am not afraid of rebuilding a motor whatever it is so that saves on some of the cost.

Was unaware of the huge jump in insurance for IO cats. If you are under the 130 mph range does the huge gap close a little bit or are they always exponentially higher in price than OB cats?

Thanks for taking the time for all the replies guys!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...69e2d4935f.jpg

This is my buddies boat

36' is nice boat for calm days on lake Michigan or running over tight chop (like the biggest that Burt or Mullett can produce). Look into an older Skater or 36 Spectre and they are reasonable money wise. They won't be like your buddys boat due the fact that the wide tunnel is much more stable in quartering seas and cross chop. If you make it out to LOTO, there are tons of inboard and outboard cats to ride in.

Joe

Just so I'm understanding....are you saying the older skater or spectre would be better or worse than his? Not sure which one has the wider tunnel? Would assume his the newer one but could be wrong?

OffshoreOnly Classifieds - Boat Classifieds - Boat Parts

Something like this is what I was thinking if the link works right. It's a 36 Spectre in the classifieds on here.

For day cruising and poker running would you say this would be as good as a 35-38 fountain vee in the same water? When I say good I mean ride, comfort, speed? That's what I'll be doing with it so that's why I ask.

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This would be the ultimate for me but that's a lot of boat and hardware to maintain and think it's a little too much to use as a regular everyday pleasure boat.

I pay less for insurance on my 36/700 inboard cat than you do for your 36/450 outboard cat Joe - declared value and liability limits are probably very comparable. You can't really compare insuring a 170mph inboard cat to a 135mph outboard cat. Insurance costs on mild powered (600-700hp) inboard cats that are similar speeds to the 450 outboard cats are going to be comparable - that is my experience at least. The insurance costs really skyrocket when you start going over 150mph (my 30 was almost uninsurable when it had 800 Sterlings in it and ran 150++). I agree that fuel, maintenance and repair costs are higher on even a light-powered inboard cat, so that better ride is definitely coming at a cost. However, you can buy a used inboard cat for a lot less than a used 400 or 450 outboard cat, so the $100k+ you save on the purchase will go a long way on paying for those higher costs. As for losing your boat to downtime, unless you own spare gearcases for the 400 or 450 rigs, you'll be down as much or more than you will with an inboard cat (assuming it has #6 drives). I can't name a guy with a 400 or 450 rig that hasn't broken multiple propshafts and/or gearcases. In the past 5-6 years (since the 400 and 450 outboard cats have exploded in popularity), there have been numerous more outboard cat accidents than inboard cat accidents (both pleasure and race), so which one is safer has already been proven.

Lol, don't go buying a 46 Skater unless you plan on supporting big maintenance bills. I owned one for a few years ('19-'22, Freedom US-1) and couldn't keep motors alive in it. In fairness, I had big power (1350, not Mercury though) and ran it hard, but those big 46' 13,000 # beasts are very hard on equipment. If you stay in the 32' - 40' range with light-power (600hp-900hp) and #6 drives you can have a fairly affordable inboard cat.

I just ran across a few mild powered 36 spectres and a couple eliminators claiming over 100 with stock 500's....is that even remotely true?

If that's the route I end up on....most of those are bravo boats. That being said do these things eat bravos like vee hulls do? I have a high powered bravo boat now and even with it being a full IMCO scx variation is still makes me nervous hahhaa

Stay away from any Bravo 1 drive cat if you plan to run in the rough, they'll break those weak drives constantly. 32' and above cats need #6 drives.

Exactly my point hahahha don't think it's even feasible to call that a "pleasure cat" at that point....that's a lot of boat!!

And to be clear....this is what I'm afraid of and why I started this thread hahaha....looks pretty darn calm in the video and it just goes over???

That was a terrible accident. But they were running close to 200mph in a 36' boat.
A well setup Cat and a driver with common sense and some teaching wont be having something like this happen to them.
All boats can be dangerous at high speeds, but 95% of the time I will take the stability of a good cat at speed vs a V bottom trying to run those same speeds.

I was there that day, maybe 1' waves. Terrible accident.

I have several friends with CAT's both I/O and OB. Granted the OB cats are older OB and not any more reliable then the I/O's, but length for length the cats will ride better. (our group has everything from a heavily modded 24SS ARONOW with 350 Verado's to a 32B Skater with HP500EFI motors and a 30 Spectra with blown HP500EFI that runs 125+ and in between)

The insurance is what keeps me out of the CAT market, and the Wifes needs at least a small cuddy. If I could afford the insurance I think I could sell her on one of these, except with much milder power. I know not the fastest for the size but I think it would fit the bill pretty good, and they are BIG 36's.

https://www.offshoreonly.com/classif...at-o83267.html

This would be a fun toy,,,, talk about bullet proof. Come on LOTTO numbers! LOL

https://www.offshoreonly.com/classif...at-o83260.html

I think most of it comes down to how you run it. If you're pushing the envelope you open yourself to things that happen on that edge. If you run it as if I were driving it you'll never come near getting in any more trouble than running any other boat lol 😜

WOW don't own a cat but from what I've heard you go out to far with drives they go over??

I was wondering where that boat went it was for sale a while ago on FB. We went from our 32' Fever to one of these with 1150's. There is ZERO comparison on the ride between the two. The Supercat is better in every way shape and form PERIOD. Even docking/ maneuvering it and loading it on the trailer is easier if you can believe that. Trailering on the street you have to pay attention as it's a lot wider. My wife agrees on all of these points as well no more complaints of speed or rough water lol.

Haven't flipped my 40 Skater and I have no idea what I'm doing... 😉

I NEVER trim mine past 90* with the bottom and that's where it runs most efficient. Ride quality is night and day on a rough lake compared to a V. There is definitely something to be said for running over the rough instead of through it and my Cat is only 25'. The most important thing to remember is, there is a very fine line between balls and stupidity. Wanted to add in that I've owned this boat since 1999 and I'm still here. Yep been in dry dock for a few as I can't seem to get a drive deal to go through.

The best OSO post I've ever seen! Tell 'em bigfarmer

to put it in context. are motorcycles dangerous? sure, in the wrong hands. doesnt mean there are not plenty out there that have never had a problem. most crashes in a cat are from running on the ragged edge or not paying attention to the boat and the envornment.

Old school boat with huge power. You can see it runs bow high for peak speed. Newer cats that have bigger tunnels and longer running surfaces should fair better, but it’s always a risk.

Wow talk about a jump, what did insurance say and cost?

Here is one that yes I like the paint and build a set of motors so know what you have.

https://www.offshoreonly.com/classif...at-o83117.html

Very good info in all thanks for all the replies!! I would assume the amount of power I would plan on having in one wouldn't get close to being on the ragged edge like that one in the video....good to know this is not the "norm" I assumed it wasn't as you don't hear about a ton of cat crashes and they still make them so they can't be too bad I suppose. Like some have mentioned...sounds like it comes down to experience and seat time.

Haven't seen anyone mention eliminators...how do those stack up to a nor-tech or spectre? I'm talking the "larger" ones like 36ish not the older super low freeboard?

Thanks again for the replies everyone!

OffshoreOnly Classifieds - Boat Classifieds - Boat Parts

Like this style eliminator

they have a center pod in the tunnel...not quite as good a ride as a true tunnel cat...if you are running in Lake Michigan i think a cat with a true deep tunnel would be the best option.

Good to know thanks for the info!!

Is a 36 spectre a true cat like you were saying or do they have the pod too?

my buddy has a 30 Chris Cat for sale. deep heavy boat that with 650 ish power will run north of 100 all day. they ride great and take rough water with ease as that is what they were designed for. I have run plenty of Chris Cats in 5-6 foot without being nervous or getting beaten up.

Any pics or other info on it? Can PM me if you want? Thanks!

I have pics at home on computer. right now it does not have engines in it. he lost a rod on one and pulled them out. he has everything to put it back together along with the original set of #2 drives that he pulled off. the TRS drives he had on it and a new block etc and all the engine parts. he will sell with or without what ever parts. personally I would put a set of #4 or #5 drives on it as it will really run happy that way. I will PM you tonight and see about getting you some pics.