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Proposed Winnipesaukee Speed Limit

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Old 12-09-2002, 10:18 PM
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Bajadood. Could be because I have a boat registered out of state. Although I am trying to think and I think I had it registered in NH at the time........
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Old 12-09-2002, 11:05 PM
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Yo Jon. could it be that......... YO UGLY!!!?
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Old 12-10-2002, 06:47 AM
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Jon,

Part of the deal I think is that if you boat regularly up here, you know where the MPs favorite spots to bag people are and just avoid them. They tend hang out in the same spots and look for the same things.
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Old 12-10-2002, 07:44 AM
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DJ, Troutly & Ron,

Although speed limits at night may seem reasonable at first, consider this, there is not excessive traffic at night on the lake, and if there is any congestion its usually just before or just after a fireworks show. Second, we already have plenty of laws already on the books to deal with some of these issues:

There is already a rule on the books about speeding. Excessive Speed is defined as: "the operation of the vessel at such a speed as to endanger BY COLLISION the life, limb or property of another".

Then there is the definition of RECKLESS OPERATION: "Reckless operation is the FAILURE to ecercise the degree of care necessary to prevent the endagering of another person or thier property."

We have enough rules & regulations. We need to enforce the rules we have, not write new unenforcable (given the staffing of the marine patrol) laws.

Another point, and this goes out to everyone. In light of the tragedy last summer, you need to remember, both boats were going in the same direction, one at 28mph the other at headway speed, say 6mph, for a total collision force of 22mph. The collision occured at 3mph less than the speed limit proposed...

Speed limits do absolutely nothing, and would not have prevented this senseless tragedy... however common sense & responsibility might have, and you cannot legislate that!!

Woodsy
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Old 12-10-2002, 08:20 AM
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Woodsy,

well put
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Old 12-10-2002, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mfb357
Yo Jon. could it be that......... YO UGLY!!!?
Not sure but you would know
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Old 12-10-2002, 11:10 AM
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Putting a speed limit on the lake is simply imposing another rule that won't be enforced. Most will not abide by it just as most do not abide by the current rules. The boating license is also crap because it doesnt teach inexperienced boaters how to drive. I do agree with Baja. If you boat on the lake all summer, you know where to po- po's like to hang and you can also get used to what they look like. Though you shouldnt worry if you arent doing anything wrong.... Even that most of the time they pull you over you havent done one thing wrong. One of my favorite memories this past summer though was watching summa humma get pulled over for no reason.
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Old 12-10-2002, 12:55 PM
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Troutly...

No offense, but I don't need a physics lesson, I deal with mass, mometum, pitch, yaw, roll, & CG etc all day on stuff that doesn't exist... I understand the point you are making, and for the most part I agree.

As far as accidents go, this one was pretty straightforward as both boats were on the same heading in the same direction. Very similar to a rear end collison that occurs everyday at lots of intersections all over the country. The Baja was coming up on plane and ran up the stern of the other boat. The speed numbers came from the accident reconstructionist over at the NH Marine Patrol headquarters in Gilford and are available to the public. The reconstruction of the accident indicated that the Baja was traveling forward in a straight line at approximately 28 mph when it ran over the stern of the other boat on the same heading that was traveling at headway speed or approximately 6mph. Now I know you need to get into the whole mass & momentum stuff, but I am quite sure the MP officer already has done that homework.

You are for more new laws, because it makes it easier for you, the police officer, not me the boater/taxpayer/citizen. If the MP do thier job properly, and they for the most part do the best they can with the staffing they have, there is no need for speed limits of any sort. The guy that was driving this Baja was absolutely HAMMERED... no pun intended last I checked there are plenty of DWI/BWI laws on the books. Not to mention the laws I mentioned earlier. If the Town of Meredith had seen fit to post a police officer at the town docks, like Laconia, and Wolfeboro do, maybe this guy might not have been able to kill someone. Speed wasn't the killer in this accident, it was impaired judgement due to alcohol consumption.

Applying your logic, if the lawmakers in Congress were to pass a speed limit of no more than 45mph in any US Territorial waters (thats 200 mile offshore limit) and all lakes rivers & streams, you would not be opposed to this? It would certainly kill the go-fast boat industry, and most of the fun people on this board enjoy. No need for a 38 Top Gun with twin 1100HP motors if your only allowed to do 45mph. Its a far out scenario, but the same logic applies. But it would make really easy for the Coast Guard to enforce, because then nobody could outrun them... legally...

How would you enforce the new law? You cannot shoot a handheld radar gun at a speeding boat and get an accurate reading unless you are close to the same bearing. The closer to the edges of the radar cone, the less accuracy you have. Boats don't run in marked lanes like cars do. Commercially available marine radar does not have time/tracking/speed capability needed to enforce a speed limit for boats. So now we have to upgrade all of our MP watercraft, to a military tracking type of radar, re-train all of the MP officers on its use, all at whose expense? The same people who didn't want the speed limit to begin with!

Its not that I am not for new laws, I am for new laws that are demonstrably necessary. I would argue that you cannot demonstrate a need for a speed limit on the water, nightime or otherwise. Boating speeds can easily be controlled by no-wake zones, and the enforcement of laws that already exist. We have had no deaths ever on Winnipesaukee attributable to speed alone. Most accidents occur from too much alcohol, lack of experience operating the boat and/or lack of knowledge regarding the rules & regulations. Most speed type boating infractions can be more than covered by exisiting NH laws, and have been for years.

You cannot legislate common sense or responsibility. I would be in favor of a boating license, not certificate, similar to a motorcycle or automobile license, with similar penalies for not following the rules & regs. That would go a long way to solving some of the issue we all have on the waterways. It would also kill the boat/PWC rental business, but personally, I think thats an acceptable loss...

Woodsy
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Old 12-10-2002, 01:42 PM
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cowisl~ Good point, I have been "summering" on that lake since I was 10 mo. old, and boy have things changed, not all for the better either... I have to agree with you on the Summa-Humma comment as well. Now there is an A$$hole who needs to be taught a lesson... a hard lesson that NO ONE is above the law, (as he likes to think that he is...)
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Old 12-10-2002, 02:38 PM
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Troutly~ I hope after people have read your posts they realize that there is more to law enforcement then real life episodes of COPS. No offense to you "jollyroger", I'm behind Dan getting what is coming to him, and I've known him for 15 years... We have a couple of State troopers in the family and I'm amazed more often then not what entails a "days work"... School teachers, fire fighters and police all deserve more credit than is typically given. Yeah there are a few out there that give the good ones a bad name,and anyone that has run into the Lake Patrol on Winni can attest to that... There are three sides to every story, "yours, mine & the truth" or so they are finding out in this case.

I'm not in favor with the night time speed limit 100%, however if that is what it takes than so be it. My family has been on that lake (owned property) for over 50 years, and through the years I've seen an 18 foot boat that did 55 be considered "fast" to taking that same boat and not being able to go out in it on a weekend for fear you'll be swamped and sink! Hell, my 271 FasTech (I felt, anyway...) was about my limit on the down side for what I felt comfortable in on the weekends. Next time around I'm definitely going for a "real" 28-30 footer, at a minimum.

It's interesting to hear different oppinions from people around the country, it kind of puts things in perspective.
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