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Old 08-27-2003, 04:18 PM
  #71
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t2x,

i beg to differ on the third engine theory and i know your involvement with the boat completely, but my twin engined 30 shadow definitely leaned on the outside sponson in the turns...it's one of the main reasons i sold the boat, because it made me uneasy...which could have also been caused by my lack of experience in a catamaran.

my other reasons for selling the boat included:

severely underpowered with twin 2.4 Bridgeports...barely ran 75 mph which could have something to do with the "roll"

bought the 28 Cigarette
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Old 08-27-2003, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JUST ONCE
what size does this go into effest at, I know smaller (like 21-24) cats can't handle rearly as rough water as a comperable vee. Also in big water isn't there a safety factor to be considered, A cat may handle the waves smoother than a vee but I'd rather get beat up than blow over. Please shed some light on this for me. Thanks,
Martin.
I was under the same misconception about small cats as you until T2x took me for a spin in his 28 Skater and I drove Shane's 24 Skater in some mixed water. Well, I gotta say that the 24 Skater passed several larger vees and we were comfortable (read: no pounding) as we flew across the waves. It was unreal. I completely changed my opinion of cats.

Now, that is not to say that everyone should go out and trade-in their vees on cats. Anyone considering a cat needs to learn to drive and throttle all over again. It's a different world and I've only begun to understand (faintly I might add) what the differences are. Without taking the time to learn what to do and what NOT to do, getting into a 100mph+ cat from a vee of any speed will be unwise. But, with proper instruction on how to run a cat, it's a whole new world.

Vees and cats are like two different flavors of ice cream. Whichever one tastes best to you, is the one to go with. But, cats should not be avoided due to misperceptions because you'll miss out on some real fun.
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Old 08-27-2003, 04:43 PM
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Thank you for clarifying this for me, the only reason I alsays thought that about small cats is because I ride on a few 21' and 24 skaters and sometimes coming off a wake or chop at high speeds(80+) it felt like the bow was starting to come up and kept coming up until the driver let out of it, Maybe I was just paranoid because I'm used to driving a vee that just bounces around off the waves.
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Old 08-27-2003, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JUST ONCE
Thank you for clarifying this for me, the only reason I alsays thought that about small cats is because I ride on a few 21' and 24 skaters and sometimes coming off a wake or chop at high speeds(80+) it felt like the bow was starting to come up and kept coming up until the driver let out of it, Maybe I was just paranoid because I'm used to driving a vee that just bounces around off the waves.
With all due respect, maybe the people operating them are not experienced or are not aware of the proper way to run them. Reason being, a cat such as a Skater should fly dead level when trimmed, driven and throttled correctly. Ask Miller, we got some BIG air and we ALWAYS flew FLAT as a pancake. He picked up teh driving thing VERY QUICKLY I might add.
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Old 08-27-2003, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shane
With all due respect, maybe the people operating them are not experienced or are not aware of the proper way to run them. Reason being, a cat such as a Skater should fly dead level when trimmed, driven and throttled correctly. Ask Miller, we got some BIG air and we ALWAYS flew FLAT as a pancake. He picked up teh driving thing VERY QUICKLY I might add.
Actually, I was more worried about us stuffing than blowing over. I thought that we might be running a bit bow heavy as Shane and I are both BIG GUYS, but my diet paid off and we didn't shift the center of gravity forward as I had feared!

Seriously, there were a few moments were we got some height between our props and the wave tops. It is a weird feeling but I got used to it quickly and really enjoyed it. At first the sensation is akin to flying but we always flew very level and reentered smoothly. I braced myself a couple of times after a few seconds of duration in the air only to land smoothly and with no fanfare. It was amazing.

If a Skater is running bow-high, then there is a problem. It should stay flat at all times and both leave and reenter the water without any jarring.
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Old 08-27-2003, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sean
t2x,

i beg to differ on the third engine theory and i know your involvement with the boat completely, but my twin engined 30 shadow definitely leaned on the outside sponson in the turns...it's one of the main reasons i sold the boat, because it made me uneasy...which could have also been caused by my lack of experience in a catamaran.

my other reasons for selling the boat included:

severely underpowered with twin 2.4 Bridgeports...barely ran 75 mph which could have something to do with the "roll"

bought the 28 Cigarette
How old was it? We found that the balsa on some boats absorbed water ...thereby shifting the c/g forward...and making it roll outboard in turns. In addition if you turned them too slowly...they would, at times, roll out. However, in good trim and balanced right...they leaned into turns....with two engines.

I do remember having vee bottom guys out for test rides cringing that the banking didn't "feel" right in a turn..... Since the vees banked as much as 30 degrees inward and the Shadow ran flat to 1 to 2 degrees, the comparative sensations probably seemed like an outward roll.... I know even I felt nervous whenever I drove a triple engine version. On the other hand I clearly remember races where I could have reached out and touched every turn buoy....in every turn...at full throttle.

T2x
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Old 08-27-2003, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JUST ONCE
Thank you for clarifying this for me, the only reason I alsays thought that about small cats is because I ride on a few 21' and 24 skaters and sometimes coming off a wake or chop at high speeds(80+) it felt like the bow was starting to come up and kept coming up until the driver let out of it, Maybe I was just paranoid because I'm used to driving a vee that just bounces around off the waves.
The point here I think is how many 21 to 24 vees would be going 80 mph in a chop or over the same wakes.....in the first place.....?

There is no doubt that cats get into "situations" at much higher speeds than vees..... because they are usually going at a much higher speed to begin with.

T2x
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Old 08-27-2003, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by T2x
There is no doubt that cats get into "situations" at much higher speeds than vees..... because they are usually going at a much higher speed to begin with.

T2x
That's I would recommend anyone who steps into a cat after only have driven vees, should get some instruction and spend time learning the differences in how the hulls handle. Since things happen quickly when you're going 100mph+, you don't have time to experiment. You need to know what is happening, why and how to deal with it.
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Old 08-27-2003, 07:25 PM
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it was joey detore old boat...number 2 out of the mold, right?

quite possible that it was water logged as it sat for anumber of years befre i got it...
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Old 08-27-2003, 08:04 PM
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Just once, You said ," the boat felt like it was going over untill the driver let off " ? That means it was thrust from the prop and trimmed wrong holding it up . It was not the air in the tunnel pushing it up or it would not have come down when he let off.

I drove a 30' Cobra cat with 2.5's once . I won't name names but lets say the guy that sat next to me in this "brand new boat" and set the trim knows cobras better then anybody ....... Well it was trimmed up too high . I went over a real big roller in smooth water and launched it real high . When It came down I throttled it hard and stood it up at about a 45degree angel or more ! I let off and it came down and I gunned it and stood it up again and was able to hold it up for a good distance ! This was on perfectly flat water ,after the wake . no one in the boat thought it was as cool as I did !
My point is that at 80+ mph , it did not blow over . Not to say it couldn't have ........ But for my luck that day it didn't . I would like to have seen how it would fly if it was trimmed right .


Sooooo , What about those Nortechs !
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