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My application to the NEW website Wetpits was DENIED!

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Old 12-20-2003, 04:42 PM
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Mark:

The reason I'm against the WP's is because it is another seperation of our sport. WP's was supposed to be secret racer talk so the general public would not see all the childish rubbish that goes on in our sport. Well Peconic himself posted MA's thread on WP's on OSO. I have never thought I was better than anybody else and certainly don't have a racing ego . I guess what really p i s s e s me off is I have never seen so much whining / p i s s i n g and moaning about offshore racing. I have never had to complain , argue , ***** , make my own rules , start a new secret racing website or boycott an offshore race. If I had a problem with anything race related , I simply picked up the phone and discussed the situation like a professional. All this B U L L S H I T has ruined the sport I have dedicated my life to. Now you you can go back and insert your head! BH
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Old 12-20-2003, 05:36 PM
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Shane, Too Old, Joker, and Outer,

Between the four of you you've done almost 50 posts worth of wining!
There are close to 200 members on the Wet Pits, just because you don't agree, does that make all 200 members wrong?
I don't like "Poker Runs", but I don't come here and bash the people who participate in them? I've heard on many occassions Poker Runners refer to themselves as "Racers". With their fancy uniforms, one would think they are racers. If you wanted to start a site for "Poker Runs Only" I would applaud you.
I also think it's hypocritical to bash something that you applied for membership to.
Other professional sports don't allow it's members to "bash" their organization without seriuos repercussions. Bill Franz would certainly terminate someone if they where to display indifference to his organization. Not to say NASCAR does not have problems, but they certainly don't post these issues on a public forum. Why can't Offshore have their own site for these discussions or disagreements? Maybe the issues from this past fall wouldn't have been so bad if all the problems weren't made public, and ironed out by the participants.
Brian, I also don't view this as another "seperation" of groups. There are members from APBA, SBI, OPA and the Supercat Series. If anything, I feel this is long overdue.
All four of you are respected members on this site, however, I've seen more wining on this thread, then on any "Wet Pits" thread.
Bob G.

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Old 12-20-2003, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shane
Based on your statement above I DO qualify. I am and have been an active member of the NJPPC which works with various sanctioning bodies in promoting, producing and organizing races in the northeast.


SORRY , NJPPC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACING .

THEY TRY TO DO A RACE IN AC BUT BECAUSE OF 9-11 IT

DID NOT WORK OUT.

ONLY SBI AND OPA , DO THE RACES IN THE NORTHEAST.


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Old 12-20-2003, 09:04 PM
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Fred

promoters are ok to get in to wetpits.



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Old 12-20-2003, 09:53 PM
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Too Old,

This is my last post on this subject. The people on "Wet Pits" are attempting to better the sport NOT divide it. I'm really sorry that you feel so strongly.
Perhaps with time, all the racers can present themselves and their teams as other Professional sports do. Airing dirty laundry on a public site has caused much friction among racers, sponsors and mostly Fans. I'm as guilty as anyone for this, and I've delt with the consequences from it. On the other hand, the Public Forums have been a great asset for us at times. Recently several of us posted about bringing back a single outboard class. If it weren't OSO and Screamandfly.com, I doubt we would have gotten it off the ground. Thanks to both these sites, we had a few organizational meetings and then presented the SOB's as a unified group to OPA, where it appeared well received.
One of the issues that was aliviated on "Wet Pits" is that everyone uses their real name. On this site, it is very easy to throw stones when one can "hide" behind a pseudonym.
I think "Wet Pits" would like to accomplish the same "unification" that we had with the SOB group-everyone on the same page, and relaying the same ideas.
If all else fails, we can "agree to disagree" on this issue.
Hope you have a safe and Happy Holiday.
Bob G.
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Old 12-21-2003, 01:23 AM
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Wetpits was formed because of exactly what is happening on this thread........
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Old 12-22-2003, 12:09 AM
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I knew this idea was only going to divide the OSO members. Now here it is, another case of "US against Them" scenario.

So what are the numbers now in the OSO Racer's Forum?

Would anyone care to shed light on how many visits and posts have dropped off since the opening of another site?

We all were once a family. The OSO family.

Now look at what is becoming of this entire sport.

Sanctioning Bodies against Sanctioning Bodies-Racers against Racers- Racers against Poker Runners, Websites vs Websites-Sponsors running away from the sport!

As if we don't have enough turmoil in the world already....


Quote by Haulin Trash: "SORRY , NJPPC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACING ."
Just for the record Mike, The NJPPC club may not be hosting boat races, but many of their members do come out & volunteer to help OPA & NJOPRA as well as promote the sport of Offshore Racing. In fact many were in attendance at OPA's Winter Meeting. Also if my memory serves me right, NJPPC members were also volunteers for some races in Florida.Try not to burn any bridges. Let's build them.
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Old 12-22-2003, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Mathews

Shane,

My point was, and continues to be, you wanted on wetpits. Unfortunately, you were not voted on because no one there knows about your "active" involvement with OFFSHORE Racing. If they did, you would have been voted on. As I've stated several times now, I'm sure your experience (and the others posting on this thread) can be a valuable asset to any discussion on boat racing (offshore or other). The fact is that there were rules made (again, not by me) and you were not voted on. My comment on you threatening to "Go Poker Running" is founded. You have said, "Our reply...sorry fellas, we're goin' poker runnin' where we will hang with and socialize with EVERYONE! With a boat or without, participating or not"! I equate this comment to picking up your toys in the sand box because you don't like the way the other boys are playing. And like you, I'm calling it the way I see. P.S. - When did you become the Spokesman for all Poker Runs? You use the word We and We're like you call all of the shots.

You're under false pretense that because people who you have argued with on OSO went to wetpits, you were voted down (I am reading between the lines of you post, correct me if I am wrong please). It was not the case. As I have stated previously, you were voted down and each guy who voted you down knows or met you and thinks your a stand-up guy. You also have now brought Mike A and the APBA into this thread. What does that have to do with this? Please tell me.

Mark,

You have CLEARLY put the proverbial spin on my comments. Please re-read them below.

"BRING ON THE POKER RUNS! All this WetPits has done is take an elitist sport and made it even more self centered and conceeded. Is the following what possibly has gone through their minds??? "Let's see, shut out everyone else, others that have been down the road and may have some valid points and good ideas (i.e. EXPERIENCE), and let's keep to ourselves. And if we find that we may wish to grace other boards and people with the honor of our own presence then maybe we will do so. Oh, yeah, and all you fans out there that we always claim to be dependent upon come on out and support us."

Our reply...sorry fellas, we're goin' poker runnin' where we will hang with and socialize with EVERYONE! With a boat or without, participating or not!"

NOTE where I said "IS THE FOLLOWING WHAT POSSIBLY WENT THROUGH THEIR MINDS?" I believe you are quite capable in understanding that NO WHERE in there did I even REMOTELY assume the role of spokesman. All did was illustrate as to what many people's perception of the "IN RACERS" is and what a general feeling among those of us NOT CURRENTLY racing is. If you go back and read MANY people here have posted that they have lost partial or total intereast in racing and have chosen to attend and or participate in poker runs. The numbers CLEARLY illustrate this to be FACT! However, because your argument lacks substance you attempted to spin this to your benefit. Nice try but unsuccessful nonetheless.

With regard to false pretense...who are the people that voted me down that met me and believe me to be a stand up guy? I guess we arguing symantics? I only used the reference to MA to illustrate a point based on historical fact. Keep in mind that ultimately WetPits was created because of the problems PRIMARILY NOT SOLELY based in APBA Offshore. Who is/was the head the organization? So YES there IS relevence although that was NOT and IS NOT the basis of my discussion. AGAIN, it was used ONLY to illustrate that my FACTS are FACTS and as posted in the past I was ridiculed and criticized for posting them only to come and find that those same people that were doing the ridiculing have now realized that I was only speaking the TRUTH! That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. So please do NOT try to make it out to be more than it is as was stated in the post.

Please do not take my posts here to offensive to you personally in any way. I am merely discussing the situation although my verbiage may appear otherwise. It is in NO WAY PERSONAL just a discussion of the topic at hand in a respectful and honorable fashion.

Last edited by Shane; 12-22-2003 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 12-22-2003, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Geoghegan
Shane, Too Old, Joker, and Outer,

Between the four of you you've done almost 50 posts worth of wining!
There are close to 200 members on the Wet Pits, just because you don't agree, does that make all 200 members wrong?
I don't like "Poker Runs", but I don't come here and bash the people who participate in them? I've heard on many occassions Poker Runners refer to themselves as "Racers". With their fancy uniforms, one would think they are racers. If you wanted to start a site for "Poker Runs Only" I would applaud you.
I also think it's hypocritical to bash something that you applied for membership to.
Other professional sports don't allow it's members to "bash" their organization without seriuos repercussions. Bill Franz would certainly terminate someone if they where to display indifference to his organization. Not to say NASCAR does not have problems, but they certainly don't post these issues on a public forum. Why can't Offshore have their own site for these discussions or disagreements? Maybe the issues from this past fall wouldn't have been so bad if all the problems weren't made public, and ironed out by the participants.
Brian, I also don't view this as another "seperation" of groups. There are members from APBA, SBI, OPA and the Supercat Series. If anything, I feel this is long overdue.
All four of you are respected members on this site, however, I've seen more wining on this thread, then on any "Wet Pits" thread.
Bob G.
Bob,

Thanks for replying. With respect to whining. My comments and thoughts are far from it. I am simply stating what has happened and the hypocricy of it. I have NOT BASHED WetPits.com. I stated that I felt it alienated people even more so than they currently feel. My reason for "application" was to try and offer assistance as I have done countless times. However, before one can "fix" a problem, the problem itself needs to be recognized. Unfortunately, I think many race teams of late have failed to recognize the true issues concerning the sport. I have made those thought abundantly clear here on OSO and was BASHED continuosly for doing so. Alll I was doing was calling a spade a spade and many loyal racers to specific organizations did not want to hear it. I applied to try and offer my input from a more historical perspective. Remember the saying..."those who fail to understand history run the risk of repeating it." In the sport of offshore racing history has repeated itself time and time again. (See countless posts here and POWERBOAT Magazine this month with FORMULA's head of racing) If you review my posts you will find my position has not changed.

With regard to you point about other sports not allowing members to bash...keep in mind that Offshore Racing is NOT a professional sport. The term professional by definition refers to people who's PROFESSION it is to race. This is a hobby sport that sometimes pays prize money. Additonally, where do the participants come from? THE FAN BASE and other performance boaters! By alienting the future participants it is the same or WORSE than when these same people walk through the pits at an actual race and teams won't give them the time of day. Bya lienting future racers the ability for the sport to grow and POSSIBLY become a "true" professional sport is gretaly compromised if not eliminated. I will grant you that there are teams that "act" in a "professional manner" and they should be applauded although they should ALSO be EXPECTED to do so.

Until there is a proving ground, where racers need to learn and EARN a professional racing license through RACING accomplishments (i.e. like any other form of motorsport) and not just have a big enough check book it will always remain a hobby. You the racers cannot be "customers" and professionals at the same time. the two are mutually exclusive.

As far as the events of late being public and that adding to the severity of the problem I disagree. In fact i think it is quite the opposite. If it were not for the public discussion of these same issues I PERSONALLY think that many of these problems would have continued to be swept under the rug and the misinformation and propaganda machine would be alive and well. Am I saying that the open discussion of issues if the SOLE reason for the rehab? ABSOLUTELY NOT! However, I believe it DEFINITELY HELPED!

Last edited by Shane; 12-22-2003 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 12-22-2003, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Mathews
Shane,

You are entitled to your opinion of wetpits and what it may or may not be doing to the sport. I have not debated that. What I've stated was that YOU have been hypocritical by applying, and whether you like it or not, bashing it. You have and you did again by the self centered and conceded remarks in your last post. I have said repeatedly that your experience is very valuable. Please listen to that and stop using it as a crutch for an otherwise bad argument on why you were denied on wetpits.

My point with you being the spokesman was merely asking you to speak for yourself, and not others. I've invested alot of time and money in 2003 with a larger investment of time and money for 2004. I don't like the way things are going either but I try to stay constructive and add positive comments when I'm qualified to so. Again though, you're entitled to your opinion. I just can't over the use of "we" and "our" in your posts.

Mike A. and APBA are not the title of your thread. That was my point. I think once you were called a hypocrite, you jumped to another topic. My point here was to keep your posts on the topic of your thread. Mike A and APBA are the subject of other threads. Why don't you post to those threads instead of changing the topic of this one?

I won't/don't take you comments personally offensive. I've done my best to keep to the topic with a little comic relief in between. I appreciate you responses and opinions. What's funny is I've red some of your other posts and actually agree with alot of what your saying. That doesn't change the fact that you could have posted something constructive/positive in the milling area, instead of airing out dirty laundry here (MY OPINION).

Mark
Mark,

I will try to address the above point by point again. I have NEVER bashed Wetpits. Simply I have stated that I was not "approved" and I have spoke about the fact that I believe I was and am currently "qualified" based on the criteria originally put forth by its founder. If he has changed the criteria from "racers past and present" to "present only" then that is different. However, at the time of my "application" it was "racers past and present". When I was denied and posted about it here, that was NOT hypocritical because I MET the original requirements. What was hypocritical was that I met them and then th requirements were changed. Kind of follows along with all that has been going on in offshore anyhow doesn't it? Make and change the rules as you go along to ensure a favorable outcome. I have NEVER used anything as a crutch. As ALWAYS I have called it as I see it and in many people's eyes when you don't agree with the main stream it is considered whining.

As far as Mike A...get over it dude. He and his actions and or lack thereof have been much of the catalyst for the invention of the new site, either directly or indirectly. As I said earlier...I only used the reference to MA to illustrate a point based on historical fact. Keep in mind that ultimately WetPits was created because of the problems PRIMARILY NOT SOLELY based in APBA Offshore. Who is/was the head the organization? So YES there IS relevence although that was NOT and IS NOT the basis of my discussion. AGAIN, it was used ONLY to illustrate that my FACTS are FACTS and as posted in the past I was ridiculed and criticized for posting them only to come and find that those same people that were doing the ridiculing have now realized that I was only speaking the TRUTH! That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. So please do NOT try to make it out to be more than it is as was stated in the post.
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