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Another stepped hull goes dancing

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Old 06-03-2004, 08:15 AM
  #231
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

Cig1,
i like the way u talk son....u mentioned "pivot point"...i'm always hear'n people talk about CG...when most have no idea even how to set the boat up to begin the calculations. although an important #...do you know how much weight needs to be redistributed to move the CG 2" on a 38' 9000# boat?...A LOT!...the moment of inertia is VERY important to a boat! explanation: take a 100# dumb bell and you can pivot it around like mad...now take a 100# bar bell...see how fast you whip that around...YOU CAN'T...let's talk about moment of force: what's hang'n off the back of the boat and where it set at....chop the throttles with a 6 blade vs a 4 blade...6's are like brakes in comparisson. how was the boat running prior to an input change(yours or nature, both are inputs)??now change the moment of inertia in the boat so the nose dives quick, the ass end pops up, and what da ya think that will translate into???

what i think is funny is people are asking the manufactures (NOT saying all) how to run their new stepped hulls (tx2 is right here!) that they didn't design and have no clue about any of the above. AND i am NOT saying we know it all by any stretch of the imagination...but we are always reseaching it...i'm really lucky to have J, our crew chief, that spent many years at GMI studing these very things!
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Last edited by audacity; 06-03-2004 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 06-03-2004, 08:52 AM
  #232
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

"Oh, and Hydro'....be careful....your spots are starting to show..."

I can't believe it took so long


J.D.
Nice well thought out post. That picture says a lot.

Look forward to seeing you folks at PIB or an event soon!
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Old 06-03-2004, 08:55 AM
  #233
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

In a debate that has no real "right" and "wrong" I think we need to step back, take a breath and look at this discussion from the "outside". Personally, I feel as if you do not push your boat past or near your personal or its limits, the argument of stepped vs conventional bottoms is moot. If you drive like an ******* expect the boat will treat you like one sooner or later.

First, we are arguing over personal choices/likes and disikes. Some prefer a straight bottom while others prefer a stepped bottom. What we do know is that whether we are in one or the other, when you run fast and turn hard the chance for bad things happening increases by a significant amount (possibly exponentially).

Second, pleasure vs. racing applications typically dictate different driving styles and those in a race are (or at least should be) keenly aware of the inherent risks. Those in pleasure situations should also be keenly aware of the dangers of their pursuits and especially of the added responsibility they have to their passengers and other boaters. In some cases even those on shore (see photo of Fountain in trees).

Third, we will all have our own opinion as to which bottom we "prefer". To state one is "better" than the other really requires further explanation. Specifically, what is hull type "A" BETTER at than hull type "B"? Arguments can be made for efficiency, fuel economy, lower cruise speed, better turning, better rough water ride etc etc etc. Keep in mind that liars figure and figures lie. You can make statisitcs say anything you want when you manipulate and tweek data accordingly. What is FAR MORE IMPORTANT in MY ESTIMATION is the following:

1. Racers understand that it is RACING and knowingly and willing take the risks associated therewith having full knowledge and understanding of the possible consequences.

2. Pleasure boaters NEED to have a BETTER understanding (as a group) as to how to PROPERLY operate their craft.

3. Pleasure boaters need to FULLY understand the "rules of the road".

4. Pleasure boaters need to know THEIR limitations as well as their boats limitations. (Poker Runs and holiday weekends are not the appropriate time to learn or "test" these limitations)

5. NO ONE, I mean NO ONE should be consuming alcholic beverages and then operate a boat. PERIOD! I don't care how much you can drink or if it was just a couple. It takes all of your senses and abailities to operate your boat in a safe manner without the added effects of alcohol. And if you cannot have a good time without drinking and then driving I feel sorry for you.

6. Pleasure boaters need to get "reality checks" on a regular basis to be reminded that whether they are on a poker run or just spending time with friends on a nice summer day, there is NO FIRST PLACE! What would make them the REAL WINNER is to put the safety of themselves, their passengers and other boaters enjoying the water FIRST!

Good luck and be safe!

Shane

P.S. I do like spirited debates so long as they remain respectful.
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Old 06-03-2004, 08:59 AM
  #234
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

ALL very good points shane!
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Old 06-03-2004, 08:59 AM
  #235
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

Lesson learned: No boat is idiot-proof. Salety in boat design is directly proportional to driver common sense and skill.
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Old 06-03-2004, 09:10 AM
  #236
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
! What would make them the REAL WINNER is to put the safety of themselves, their passengers and other boaters enjoying the water FIRST!

Good luck and be safe!

Shane

P.S. I do like spirited debates so long as they remain respectful.
me too....




































Screw it...........I'm gonna wash the boat for Friday's activities now, and I just can't wait to go WOT and crank the wheel as fast and hard as possible. I want to see what happens................
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:05 PM
  #237
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

Quote:
Originally Posted by audacity
...do you know how much weight needs to be redistributed to move the CG 2" on a 38' 9000# boat?...A LOT!...the moment of inertia is VERY important to a boat! explanation: take a 100# dumb bell and you can pivot it around like mad...now take a 100# bar bell...see how fast you whip that around...YOU CAN'T...let's talk about moment of force: what's hang'n off the back of the boat and where it set at....chop the throttles with a 6 blade vs a 4 blade...6's are like brakes in comparisson. how was the boat running prior to an input change(yours or nature, both are inputs)??now change the moment of inertia in the boat so the nose dives quick, the ass end pops up, and what da ya think that will translate into???

...
Joe, or any other physics heads ...

Let me ramble here for a moment ... leverage point(props) in relation to the CG ... dumbell vrs barbell ... the one thing missing from the barbell theory is forward force pushing the other end against the rotating force

Even though the CG would remain about the same, how does placing the leverage point further away from it(CG) change the dynamics?

It would seem to me that it would incerase the resistance or make the arc larger on the longer side, which should give more something (feel,time,control)

Sorry if I sound like a grade schooler in a physics class ... but hopefully you can get to where I'm trying to go with this. Would 12" of standoff box help or hurt?

G
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:31 PM
  #238
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

no problem bro...CG is not something that is changed while running...it what it is, unless you have a ballast tank(s). even then it has MORE affect on moment of inertia (dumb bell vs. bar bell) than it does CG.

majority of mass in center of the boat...takes very little forces, input and outputs to change direction...all mass on the outsides requires larger forces...so,,,the moment of inertia should be adjusted so that outside forces have less affect on the hull but not so much that the moment of force can not overcome them (your inputs)...

stand-offs set up correctly, with rules aside, help in damn near every case...CG and MOI do not have to change and you have a more usable moment of force...so it's going to act like a larger boat with out adding running surface...

did this help ya??
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:38 PM
  #239
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

Quote:
Originally Posted by audacity
...
did this help ya??
Whew !!!!

I don't know ... but a pancake just appeared on my head

Thanks Joe
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:45 PM
  #240
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Default Re: Another stepped hull goes dancing

sorry bro...call if ya want me to fill in the blanks. 734 635 1697 i'll be at the shop till around 8ish...but, being the prick i am (or some think) i'll have to charge ya! LOL
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