Miami Show TMP1600
02-26-2005 | 05:32 PM
#82
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 503
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From: Louisiana
Re: Miami Show TMP1600
JC,
We can absolutely yield 1600+ with this set up. You're welcome to fly in for the dyno runs. We've worked with Whipple to develop this combination, and everyone is confident in both the #'s and reliability. If we fail, you'll be the 1st to know.
We can absolutely yield 1600+ with this set up. You're welcome to fly in for the dyno runs. We've worked with Whipple to develop this combination, and everyone is confident in both the #'s and reliability. If we fail, you'll be the 1st to know.
02-26-2005 | 05:34 PM
#83
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,480
Likes: 43
From: Tennessee
Re: Miami Show TMP1600
As you can see from my post numbers, I don't post very often. Sorry but I am very busy. I am co-owner of TMP with Steve. I do all of the engine assembly. So I will answer as many of your questions as I can. No one from TMP ever claimed to be the best in the world. However, we are very damn good at what we do. We are also very proud of what we do. We post pictures on this website for feedback, both good and bad, because we value peoples opinions. I dare you to find any one on this site or any other site to say they have one of our engines that failed. It won't happen. Not to say it never will, but it hasn't.
We also do not claim to know everything. In developing these motors, I spent more hours then I care to remember researching parts, combinations etc.As for the claim that we use other peoples combinations, that could not be farther from the truth. When we built the motors in Cyclone and decided to use the MEFI computer, I found out who was the best with programming that computer and hired him to help me. I can certainly do it myself, but I know when someone is better. The motors were dynoed at GT Performance, but neither Gary nor any of his employees had anything to do with the motors. We simply used his facility. The program that resulted from those motors has been used by Gary, Whipple,etc. Sterling recieved a ton of help with his new quadrotor efi from Whipple in the form of the program that we developed. The program has been refined over the past few years, but it still the same base program that we developed on Cyclone's motors.
As far as the lifters are concerned, the company asked us not to release their name and I am going to respect that. As soon as the lifters are available to the public, I will be glad to tell you what they are. I have tried every hyd. lifter out there and seen them all fail. The first 1400hp had Crane lifters that made it through the 7 days and 20 hours of dyno time it took to develop that program. Three failed shortly after putting the motors in the boat. I switched to Morels and Comps with the same result. These lifters solved my problem.The first set lasted 98 hrs with the motors back and forth between 1200 and 1400. The second set lasted 110 hrs. at 1400. They may not be the greatest, most top secret lifters in the world, but they work for me. You show me another hyd. roller lifter that will live with well over 260 deg. of duration and almost .700 lift. There have been only 8 sets of these lifters to leave their facility, and we have them all. The testing has been going on for about 2 1/2 yrs. not 3. Each time we rebuild, we send the lifters, cam, pushrods valves etc. back to be tested for harmonics etc. until they fail. At that point, they are updated and the new set is sent to us. They also do their own concurrent testing. This is a specialized lifter that is very expensive and the company wants to know that they will work when they produce a million pieces. They have a great lifter on the market already that you all know, so their business does not hinge on this lifter, thats how they can take so much time developing it.
As far as the hp, you will have a hard time making that power with a carb. or any other computer system. Show me a carb. motor that can run over 41 deg of timing at over 4000 rpm and over 35 deg. of timing under 13+ pounds of boost. No one will argue that blower motors like timing, so we give it what it wants. The key is that we have a computer that will take out only as much timing as it needs to in order to stop detonation and richen the motor in the process. If knock gets to bad, the motor will go into a safe mode with a 2500 rpm rev limiter. A carb. motor, or one with a lesser computer system, would have blown up a long time ago. If you have never used the MEFI computer, I could see why those hp claims seem outragous.
Why do you think that Merc. used it. It is the best.
We are not trying to compete with anyone, but will put our motor against anything out there. We have hit on a winning combination. Sterling is great at what he does. He seems to focus more on the race circuit and that is great. We never tried to compare to him because we are not doing the same thing. We can build all of the race motors that you want. It sounds like a pretty good gig. Rebuild them after every race for about 30 grand whether they break or not and not give a warranty. That is not what we are in to.
Simply put, we are not the best, but we are one of the smartest. Find who makes the best valvetrain parts and use them, find who is the best at fine tuning the computer and put them on the payroll, and you get the idea.
All of this comes together to make one hell of a motor.
I'm sure that I did not address everything, but please ask it again.
We also do not claim to know everything. In developing these motors, I spent more hours then I care to remember researching parts, combinations etc.As for the claim that we use other peoples combinations, that could not be farther from the truth. When we built the motors in Cyclone and decided to use the MEFI computer, I found out who was the best with programming that computer and hired him to help me. I can certainly do it myself, but I know when someone is better. The motors were dynoed at GT Performance, but neither Gary nor any of his employees had anything to do with the motors. We simply used his facility. The program that resulted from those motors has been used by Gary, Whipple,etc. Sterling recieved a ton of help with his new quadrotor efi from Whipple in the form of the program that we developed. The program has been refined over the past few years, but it still the same base program that we developed on Cyclone's motors.
As far as the lifters are concerned, the company asked us not to release their name and I am going to respect that. As soon as the lifters are available to the public, I will be glad to tell you what they are. I have tried every hyd. lifter out there and seen them all fail. The first 1400hp had Crane lifters that made it through the 7 days and 20 hours of dyno time it took to develop that program. Three failed shortly after putting the motors in the boat. I switched to Morels and Comps with the same result. These lifters solved my problem.The first set lasted 98 hrs with the motors back and forth between 1200 and 1400. The second set lasted 110 hrs. at 1400. They may not be the greatest, most top secret lifters in the world, but they work for me. You show me another hyd. roller lifter that will live with well over 260 deg. of duration and almost .700 lift. There have been only 8 sets of these lifters to leave their facility, and we have them all. The testing has been going on for about 2 1/2 yrs. not 3. Each time we rebuild, we send the lifters, cam, pushrods valves etc. back to be tested for harmonics etc. until they fail. At that point, they are updated and the new set is sent to us. They also do their own concurrent testing. This is a specialized lifter that is very expensive and the company wants to know that they will work when they produce a million pieces. They have a great lifter on the market already that you all know, so their business does not hinge on this lifter, thats how they can take so much time developing it.
As far as the hp, you will have a hard time making that power with a carb. or any other computer system. Show me a carb. motor that can run over 41 deg of timing at over 4000 rpm and over 35 deg. of timing under 13+ pounds of boost. No one will argue that blower motors like timing, so we give it what it wants. The key is that we have a computer that will take out only as much timing as it needs to in order to stop detonation and richen the motor in the process. If knock gets to bad, the motor will go into a safe mode with a 2500 rpm rev limiter. A carb. motor, or one with a lesser computer system, would have blown up a long time ago. If you have never used the MEFI computer, I could see why those hp claims seem outragous.
Why do you think that Merc. used it. It is the best.
We are not trying to compete with anyone, but will put our motor against anything out there. We have hit on a winning combination. Sterling is great at what he does. He seems to focus more on the race circuit and that is great. We never tried to compare to him because we are not doing the same thing. We can build all of the race motors that you want. It sounds like a pretty good gig. Rebuild them after every race for about 30 grand whether they break or not and not give a warranty. That is not what we are in to.
Simply put, we are not the best, but we are one of the smartest. Find who makes the best valvetrain parts and use them, find who is the best at fine tuning the computer and put them on the payroll, and you get the idea.
All of this comes together to make one hell of a motor.
I'm sure that I did not address everything, but please ask it again.
02-26-2005 | 05:35 PM
#84
Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,908
Likes: 9
From: Long Island,New York
Re: Miami Show TMP1600
Originally Posted by totalmp
JC,
We can absolutely yield 1600+ with this set up. You're welcome to fly in for the dyno runs. We've worked with Whipple to develop this combination, and everyone is confident in both the #'s and reliability. If we fail, you'll be the 1st to know.
We can absolutely yield 1600+ with this set up. You're welcome to fly in for the dyno runs. We've worked with Whipple to develop this combination, and everyone is confident in both the #'s and reliability. If we fail, you'll be the 1st to know.
02-26-2005 | 05:54 PM
#87
Registered
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: MO
Re: Miami Show TMP1600
First the HP of the engine has nothing to do with weather the lifters will fail. That is det. by the amount a lift and lobe aggressiveness. You should spend more time in researching cam profiles than space age lifters if your running HYD. setups.
Most people think that lifter failures come from high spring pressures, just not so. Most failures come from valve bounce.
Any one who builds endurance engines knows you have to have a cam profile that will keep the valve train happy not a superduper lifter.
I currently run nose pressures in excess of 1000IBS with stupid agg. cam profiles, but that is what you have to have in short burst motors. So lifters are a big concern.
But in marine type engines your going for good valve train harmonics to make the valve train live not superdooper lifters.
The only proper way to check this is on a spintron.
Surly you have invested time and money into checking your combo's this way.
Most people think that lifter failures come from high spring pressures, just not so. Most failures come from valve bounce.
Any one who builds endurance engines knows you have to have a cam profile that will keep the valve train happy not a superduper lifter.
I currently run nose pressures in excess of 1000IBS with stupid agg. cam profiles, but that is what you have to have in short burst motors. So lifters are a big concern.
But in marine type engines your going for good valve train harmonics to make the valve train live not superdooper lifters.
The only proper way to check this is on a spintron.
Surly you have invested time and money into checking your combo's this way.
Last edited by NOBODY; 02-26-2005 at 06:19 PM.
