Re: Roller lifters input
 

I have not checked the springs yet, but they were 260 # and somewhere over 700 open. I have to go thru them again to see what condition they are in. I ran them before, not much time on them. Cam is .685".. kinda whimpy.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Thats encouraging to hear.I just looked at a friend of mines blower motor and he lost an Isky roller,not looking good.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Do whatever you feel is best but, the 3/8 heavy wall push rods would be fine. Just for fun I checked the ones my brother ran last season not a mark on them. He was running a .748 lift cam, springs were 285 & 730. How many degree difference between your advertised and .050 duration?

Re: Roller lifters input
 

GPM,
I think Mr. G said he is running 11". The heavy wall 3/8" in that length is not a good idea. Your brothers may no have any marks on the pushrod due to the fact there is plenty of room through the head and the deflecting pushrod has not touched it. Deflection will put microscopic stress fractures in the tubing. The tell tale sign a pushrod has been flexing is to hold one end in your hand downward and hit it with a piece of steel. If it rings it is okay, if it is a muffled sound then the rod is cracked.

Chris

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Chris, I'll check them tomorrow, the .080 wall ones that we replaced had marks on every one of them. The .135s were mark free, but I'll check them. I ran into this problem last year when I had my engine on the dyno. I was told .080 was just right for my application, after I bent all 8 exhaust pushrods the tech at Trend agreed I should run the 7/16. My push rod length I believe is 10.950 on the exhaust. I agree if Mr G can use the 7/16 it couldn't hurt, it's not much cam, does he see full spring pressure.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Manton deserves credit for that "quick check" on the pushrod. Terry put boss of years ago on to that when our shop was just getting our feet wet with some 805 CID IHRA Pro Stock stuff. We had severe issues with pushrod deflection.

As far as Mr. G's spring pressure if he knows the inch rate of the spring then you can calculate deflection and get the spring pressure. But remember this, you have to take the spring open load times the rocker ratio and thats how much pressure the pushrod is seeing. So if he is 700#'s open and running 1.7 rockers then the pushrod has 1190#'s on it.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Chris, I still agree he should run the 7/16 if they will work, what can he do if they don't fit. I'm not arguing, just looking for a solution.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Clearance them out and then use Brodix's pushrod hole liners. I know your not arguing. . .never took it that way.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

7/16 two piece with tapered ends should be what Im looking for then?

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Had to work on the grand kids swing set last nite.. still no progress on the motor. I will try ringing the push rods, good idea!!

Hey what rings do you guys run anyway? Gapped or gapless? Seen any improvements with the Gapless and which ones, top ring, second ring, CA or Total seal.. what do you guys perfer. My buddy is ahead of me on motor assembly and he was wondering what the pro's thought..

Thanks for all the input.. getting an education here. :D :D :D

Dick

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Open the 2nd ring up around 30% more then the top ring.

Chris

Re: Roller lifters input
 

JDCB,
How many hrs did your buddy get and how nasty was the cam? From my experience with solid rollers the life expectancy is pretty good if the net lift is kept .700 or less and if the duration @ .200" is 200 degrees or less. Spring selection has to be an endurance type spring that will maintain adequate pressure as they cycle out. If the lobe design is too aggressive, i.e. a drag race cam, life will be pretty short in an endurance motor. I wouldn't recommend running a solid roller lifter more than about 100 hrs even with a mild lobe design. Just my .02! Let us know what you decide to go with!

Craig

Re: Roller lifters input
 

GPM,
My cam specs are as follows. Intake, adverstised = 292*; at .050" =263*
Exhaust, advertised = 300*; at .050" = 268*. .686" valve lift on both I/E.
So what does this tell you? How agressive the ramps are? I lost one Isky lifter on this cam and had it reground, before Ultradyne sold out.

cstraub,
I take it you dont run Gapless rings? My buddy is looking to buy some rings for his motor and is wondering if it is worth the extra to use the gapless. He has run C&A's second ring gapless, and I am running Total Seal top gapless rings. Any pro's or cons for either or is simple better?
Next, where do I see a pic of the Brodix push rod liners? And where can I get them and does the hole have to be round or can it be oblonged? I have used bronze tubes in the past to seal up leaks in the intake ports from opening up the push rod tubes. Not the easiest thing to install..

Thanks
Dick

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Dick, do to political reasons I can't post the info you have asked. If you want to PM me that is fine or call: 423 854 0007. The Brodix pushrod liners are in their catalog. You can also use 6061 aluminum tubing. We did this with some wild 5" bore center stuff from EPD years ago. Your correct, it is not fun but if it saves you from a catastrophic failure then it is worth it.

Nothing wrong with Trends pushrods either. Bob makes a nice part as does Terry at Manton and Dennis at Smith Bros.

Chris

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Mr.G, I used to be a firm believer in the Ultradyne cams also. Until I asked Harold to design a special cam for my boat. Best I can recall that was 6 years ago. I waited a full year for that cam and then gave up. I moved on to the Comp cams. I haven't broke a spring, a lifter or lost a lobe since. I run bigger cams with more lift and duration at way higher rpms with no problems. The ramps are just one step slower,they make great power, and I stay running. I have to wonder if your cam is part of your push rod problem.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Who would think that rolling a wheel up and down a hill could be so difficult. :evilb:

The root of the problem is the weight of the valvetrain, right? You have to have the nasty cam profiles to make the power, everything else is a tradeoff between strength and weight, and good parts aren't cheap.

So at what point is titanium going to make sense in a max effort marine engine?

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Tomcat,
Have you price titanium motors.. lately?? Nothing I can afford.. well until I blow up everything else..!! :D :D :D

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Not exactly. Heavy is not that bad if it is used in the right places. Key is to design parts that can handle the pressure per square inch where it is critcal. It's like that lifter that has 2 axles. Distribute the load and the part will last...and win Championships.

Chris

Re: Roller lifters input
 

From the Del West site:

"The lower mass of the titanium valves combined with the matching Del West keepers (locks, cotters) and spring retainers allow for the use of higher RPM and more aggressive cam profiles without the loss of valve control. This results in the development of broader torque curves with increased horsepower and higher RPM and power numbers."

Where it says higher RPM and more aggressive cam profiles I see more endurance at the same RPM and profile. How much more for a set compared to good steel valves? No prices on the site.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Are Titanium valves worth the money?What is the main reason to use them over SS? Longivety or performance?

Re: Roller lifters input
 

I was told I wouldn't get a season out of them.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Definately not worth it there.How many hours do you boat a year? What oil pan are you running?

Re: Roller lifters input
 

A good year, I'll get 60 hours or so, always depends on the weather. I've been running a 12 qt milodon pan. It was the only one I could find that would clear the rear main cap on the Big M block. I was told Dart has modified the cap since I put mine together.

Re: Roller lifters input
 

I tried running Del West Titanium valves with their retainers and the good seats in some 14 deg Big Chief heads with 9.8 to 1 compression. Valves in these heads are extremely long. Exhaust valve stuck in a guide and then put a nice hole in the head. Del West looked at the remains and told me I should not be running their titanium exhaust valve in a pleasure use motor especially with a compression ratio as low as mine. Intakes were ok. I pulled the exhaust and went with a different make alloy valve. Things worked fine. :(

Re: Roller lifters input
 

Man that sucks to hear.You switch to Manleys?