Winter Project
 

Hello and Happy Holidays to all on OSO.I have started my winter project this weekend and have a few question for you guys.Let me bring you up to speed.During this past summer I traded my 22' Nordic Sprint in on a 32' Fountain Fever with twin 502s.The previous owner is a member of OSO and turned me on to the site when I purchased the boat from him.I have since been sitting back and learning from all your questions and answers.I am a construction project manager and have never done and major work on boats before except maintenance issues.The previous owner did a major upgrade to the look of the boat and now I want to do the mechanicals.So here are my questions so far,two days into this hole I'm digging.

1) the port engine did not have a belt on the power steering pump and I was told It is just a reservoir for the starboard pump.Now with engines out I see the hoses are just looped thru the cooler and back to itself.Is this common?And if so can I just remove the pump and hoses to clean up the engine compartment?

2) I'm trying to remove the transoms from the boat to rebuild them.I have removed all bolts and the inner plate has come off but the transom feels like it is glued in place.How do I remove it without breaking anything?It has never been off before and I dont know how the factory sealed them.

3)There is a complete hydraulic steering system and some times when I'm docking the steering becomes hard and then frees up.What would cause this,could it be a clogged filter?

4) Top hose of sea water pump is the suction or pressure side?I have one generation 4 and one gen. 5 motor in this boat.One pump was plumbed one way and the other the opposite.I would think they should be the same,and how could this even be working if it is backwards?

Thanks in advance for any help and I'll try posting some pictures so you can see my mess.I'm sure I'll have a ton more questions in the weeks to follow.

Thanks Anthony R. AKA Nordic95

P.S. I think its time to change my calling name.Any suggestions?

Re: Winter Project
 

1) the steering pump does absolutely nothing it there because its cheaper for merc to to buy the motors with them on and yes its very common

2)some people will use 4200 or 5200 when they install the transom assy
you can try a heat gun that usually will work just be careful because if its 5200 it can take the gel-coat with it

3) as for the steering try bleeding turn the wheel to one side all the way and hold it there about 30 sec then to the other side and do the same may have to repeat.. if that doesn't do it then there are other problems

4)the pumps are plumbed that way because one mtr is counter-rotating

Re: Winter Project
 

I thought the 502s were not counter rotating?I never really noticed when they were running.So I can remove the power steering pump and hoses?I guess I'll just plug the oil cooler where these hoses were attached.The steering worked fine while cruising,just got tight while docking,but just for an instant.The transom has never been off since new.I tried hitting bolts from inside boat but it seems to be installed with some kind of sealer,I just didn't want to break something.

Re: Winter Project
 

5200 is an adhesive sealer same with 4200 just not as strong.

normally with bravos they are not counter but if the pump is hooked up that way it must be.

the cooler you dont need to plug just disconect

Re: Winter Project
 

So if the motor was a standard rotation would the suction be top or bottom hose on pump?

Re: Winter Project
 

What yr is your boat?

Fountains with twins use both PS pumps tied together with a proprietory valve (sp), so you have PS even if 1 motor is off. Might double check that motor rotation just to be sure that the 1 pump is not hooked up backwards. No over heating problems? Look under your dash at the shifter linkage. Are both cables on either the top or the bottom of the throw? Normally 1 is on top, 1 is on bottom.

Re: Winter Project
 

standard rotation----- bottom hose is suction, should also be hard walled hose.

Re: Winter Project
 

1991 fever.Power steering pump is not hooked up,it just loops thru cooler and back to pump.I'm trying to upload pictures but I'm better with a hammer then a computer.I thought only one pump was hooked up because when starboard engine is off I have no steering.Can I hook it up with the propietory valve set up?

Re: Winter Project
 

Yes, you can hook it up. Just need the right parts. Do you have a separate PS fluid resorvior, or just the pump reservoir?

Re: Winter Project
 

Just the pump resorvoir.

Re: Winter Project
 

Need a separate res. when tieing the pumps together. Mine have a fitting installed to the pump cap, then the cap is welded to he pump housing. A hose goes from each pump cap to a tee at the remote res.
May be a lot of work/hassle just for the occassional time when the motor that happens to have the PS pump goes dead. I don't know of any other benefit from having both pumps used, other than always have power steering. Just another item that 'could' fail.
You can see both hoses to pumps if you look close.

Re: Winter Project
 

You are right seems like a lot of work.Any thought on why steering gets hard while docking once in a while.Very short,maybe2 sec. but enough to throw you off.

Re: Winter Project
 

Just figured out how to upload pictures.Here are a few from today and yesterday.You can see the hose for the power steering just looped back to the return line.Fittings are very rusty and thats why I want to remove the pump since it is not being used.I think I will put it on the starboard side since this is new and the other pump has been in service for 14 years now.

Re: Winter Project
 

Full hyd steering or add on?
Both drives move freely with the tie bar and rams unhooked?
Rams good and straight?

Other than that, no idea if it is a hyd. issue. Falcon from here is a wizbang on this hyd. stuff.

That hose really looks rusty. Off the older motor?
BTW, nice looking boat.

Re: Winter Project
 

Both drives and rams move fine.Full hyd. from factory.I'm thinking dirty filter or bad pump.And yes those hoses are from the port side power steering pump.They are just looped together.

Re: Winter Project
 

Ok next question,

My engine builder says he can build me a 550 to 600 horse set of engines and I dont need to upgrade my stock fuel pumps or stock ignition system.Does this sound right.I use to bracket race on weekends and the first mods we did on the new motors were MSD boxes with soft touch rev. control and 140 gph electric pump with 1/2 hose from inside tank to carb.I also was taught "better to have enough and not need it at the carb then run lean at W.O.T."Please let me know what your thoughts are because it may be better for me to not run such horse power.I'm trying to keep reliablity and cost as simple as possible.

Re: Winter Project
 

Holy crap!! You do have alot of questions.:D First,the steering is a
full hydaulic Imco unit. Thats why your pumps are hooked that way.
The reason for the steering getting hard when docking is air in the
system. It will need to be bled out. With the full hyd. system the
air wont come out on its own by turnin the wheel because the lines
are so long going up to the steering unit. Not enough flow to move
that much fluid. Have to bleed the rams. Its tricky. Pm me when you
get the motors back in. The gen 5 has a fuel pump mounted in the
sea water pump,its a differant pump than the mark IV. Trust me,
you would over heat in 2 seconds if it wasnt right. As far as your
name goes,how about YO Tony!! :D
Big horspower ?? Not for me,unless its says mercruiser on it.
Everybody I know who has a local builder do their engines has
nothing but headaches. The season is short here in the northeast,
I wanna turn the keys & go. Good luck on your project!!
especially those transoms!!:D

Re: Winter Project
 

ttt

Re: Winter Project
 

Just an update on my winter project.Today we removed all accessories from both engines and delivered them out to Roccard Marine Engines in P.A. The plan is to do a tear down and inspection of all internal parts and come up with a game plan for the build up.I'm still undecided if I want to just do a basic rebuild with larger cam,stock carb and intake and try to get around 500 hp out of it.Or go with Holly carb,aluminum intake,full head port job and bump compression and get around 600 to 650 hp.I'm trying to stay conservative so as to not grenade my out drives and be deeper into this project.Any suggestions?

Re: Winter Project
 

Holidays are now over,kids are back to being brats,and its time for me to hide in the shop.So today I media blasted and completely rebuild the four drive lift cylinders.What a mess they were on the inside.They should work much better now and when painted look much better also.I took off my skeg guards and found that half the skeg is missing.I guess I'll have to reinstall these after I paint the drives.I was hoping they were in salvagable shape so I could do with out the guards,but I guess not.Still waiting to hear from the motor shop about progress on and condition of dissasembly.

Re: Winter Project
 

Here is a picture of my previous winters project.About 17 winters worth,also notice the 68 convertible next to the 68 hard top.That was supposed to be this winters project,but I got bitten by the Fountain bug,so it sits.Notice the name on the spoiler"Going nucking futzs". I should name my boat this also,part 2.

Re: Winter Project
 

Man those look nasty. Sure glad you decided on new y-pipes. Just consider what they may look like inside.
You can buy new lower skegs ($25) from BAM and have them welded on. Mine had some file work done to them when I got my boat. Since I like things in perfect condition, I repaired mine. I just cut out the section I needed from the new skeg and welded onto mine, then used Marine Tex to fill in the imperfections. Looks like new.

Re: Winter Project
 

I'm the same way.Most of my friends make fun of me because I like my things to be as nice as possible.Like these drives need to be stripped and painted and the skegs fixed.Did you have to remove gears and seals to weld the new skeg in?I need to learn how to weld aluminum,maybe I'll stop at my welding supply house this week and see what kind of equipment they have in stock.What kind of primer and paint did you use on your drive?I was going to use DP 401 epoxy primer and 9200 single stage epoxy paint by PPG.I also need to find sticker kits for both drives and lift cylinders.Any ideas?

Re: Winter Project
 

They were complete when I welded them, just kept a wet rag on the torpedo section. I ended up gutting them afterwards because I decided to strip them bare by glass beading for a better repaint job. Then reassembled with all new bearings and seals. The uppers were untouched.

PPG paint products.
DX 533 Alum. cleaner
DX 503 ALum conditioner
DP40LF Epoxy primer/DP402LF primer catalst
PPG Concept Acrylic Urethane black paint.

(Still had some left over, not recalled from memory)


Stickers can be from BAM too. Might as well place a big order.

Re: Winter Project
 

Just received and update from my engine builder.He has the engines honed and line bored and started on reconditioning of the rods.He found one to be bent.Some where along the line some one must have blown a head gasket and never went any deeper then just replacing the gasket.He also noticed that one of my bell housings has a crack next to one of the mounting tabs.So if any one in OSO land has one laying around that they would like to sell please let me know.

Re: Winter Project
 

Just some more pictures.

Re: Winter Project
 

Ok, it been a while since my last up date of my winter project.So far engine guy is waiting for some parts to come in and lower ends are assembled and waiting.I have completely stripped the exterior transom of all remaining hardware.I then wet sanded and painted transom with base and clear coat.I received all transom pieces back from the media stripper and tonight I acid washed,epoxy primed and painted most of them.I have also sent out my lower drives to have both skegs replaced.Hopefully I am at the point this weekend I can finally start some assembly.Here are some paint pics.Till next time :D :D

Thanks Nordic95

Re: Winter Project
 

Movin right along!

Re: Winter Project
 

Yea to the nut house.I can't believe how much work I'm into.Some one will end up with a nice boat when I sell.Can't wait till spring to be able to splash it again.

Re: Winter Project
 

I don't know if you have figured out your seawater pumps but some one could have replaced them along the line and mounted it upside down. If it is the older sea water pump that mercrusier used on everything for years and years. For we hooked one engine up the correct way and the other opposite with the hose switched. And it would still pump water just not the same volume as the other, but that was hooked up to a hose and not in the water. There is my 2 cents. I am glad to see you are moving along nicely. Reminds me of last winter for us. and yet mine never hit the water last summer lol. Good luck and I will post my pics soon so i will share my hardships.

David

Re: Winter Project
 

I spoke with some one a few weeks ago and they said the pumps have to do with the mounting locations on the motor.I have one Gen 4 and one Gen 5.The mounting bracket for the 4 rotates the pump 180 degrees.So thats why the input hose mounts on top of one pump and bottom of other pump.I have not have time to look into this theory but I'm sure when I get my motors back next week and start hanging acessories I'll see the difference.And post some pics of your project.I really need to see that I'm not the only one this crazy.

Re: Winter Project
 

I received word from Roccard Marine that my engine dyno is scheduled for this Thursday.All my parts are in and should have assembly done by Tuesday.Mike from Roccard says my finale compression ratio will be set at 9.8 to 1.This seems a little high but he says with aluminum heads there will be no problem with running regular gas.What are your opinions out there in o.s.o. land?I also started asembling my gimbal rings and transoms tonight.What a pain in the a$$.I have all respect for you guys that do this day in and out with them mounted on the boats.Here are some pics from Roccard.


Thank Nordic95

Re: Winter Project
 

More engine parts and weld repair of my cracked engine bell housing.

Re: Winter Project
 

Cant wait to see the dyno numbers!!

Re: Winter Project
 

That make two of us.Mike seems to think they should turn around 625 -640 horse.I would be happy with 525 horse.The dyno will tell.

Re: Winter Project
 

LOOKS GREAT!!!!!!!!! :evilb: :evilb: :evilb:

Re: Winter Project
 

Just got back from my dyno session.I have to admit that Mike from Roccard was a hell of a lot closer with his prediction then I was.Here are some pics and the dyno sheet from one of my engines.Tomorrow we will dyno the other and then back to my garage with both of them to start the assembly process.

Thanks Nordic95

Re: Winter Project
 

more pics

Re: Winter Project
 

more pics and results.

Re: Winter Project
 

Looking good! Congrats.

I'm a fan of the single carb nat aspirated power... :drink: