team Tickfaw

The saga continues.....several months ago I had 2 454's completly redone. All new parts with exception of block, crank and rods. Motors professionally built and balanced. Broke in the motors in the boat. I know bad idea but dyno not available. Port sounded ok except for slight tick, starb same. 2 hrs later cam lobe bad on port. Pull both engines out.Check out starb cam, it don't look right. "Ultradyne cams". Call them, thats when they tell me they have been experiencing some minor problems with cam lobes. They recommend oil, additives and the like and replace the cams and lifters. Put engines back in boat ,break in to their specs, 8 hrs later, one cylinder goes "dead". Mind you that the engins have still not seen above 3800 rpm. Pull valve cover, push rod out from under roller rocker. Rocker still locked into place. Pull push rod,flat on each end,look down at the lifter and its into peices. Pull all rockers, 8 of 16 pushrods are broke up at the rocker end,4 rockers scared up and another lifter has its spring keeper off and lying in lifter gallery.
Check other engine, no sign of problems. Both engines set up exactly.
So far my bill at the shop will be around 1500.00 just for pulling engines a total of 3 times. I tell ultradyne I am scared to use any of their cams and all they are going to do is credit me for the cams toward more crap. Still talking with the head honcho on repair bills. Had to completly tear down both engines,one has metal all in it and the other I'm scared of. Engine builder is going to eat all labor and pay for the dyno run on engines. Looks like I am going to have to spend another couple thousand on roller cam setups now.
Ultradne saying I must have over reved engine to make it do that. I was so scared of having more problems that I would not get over 3800. Learning some hard lessons here and just passing them along. Be CAREFULL of hyd. flat tappet cams. ultradyne???
don't get me started.
I do want to thank Bob Madera for his help so far and speaking with my engine builder. We are going to use his recommendations and purchase through him. I will keep ya'll posted and yes I kept pictures for future reference. Also harland sharp for replacing the 4 rockers free of charge. Sure did'nt expect that.
Does anyone think I can re-coup any of the expenses from ultradyne? Has anyone had this kind of trouble before or is it that dark cloud thats been following me.

SB

iTrader: (1)

Your not alone.

Been an industry wide issue.

Most of us will not get involved with a flat tappet build for the same reason.

Make sure your springs don't have too much pressure, you use ZDDP oil's as I'm sure Bob M. has told you, use GM EOS for break in, follow all recomendations, and still cross your fingers.

As I just mentioned - too much time and $$ has been wasted on lobes going flat, from manufacturers, to builders, to the end consumer. From a builders stand point, why get talked into building an engine with one ? It's a lose, lose.

Click on this and read:
http://www.compcams.com/information/...chBulletin.pdf

I have one from Crane and some others too, in case you think it's a Lunati only deal.

team Tickfaw

Can I resolve this issue just by swapping to a billet mil spec roller cam setup? Sorry I was so long winded but this sure gripes my a#@.
Got the royal purple poker run coming up in 3 weeks. I hate to bum but looks like I will.

SB

iTrader: (1)

It makes everyone shudder. Imagine being a builder that goes thru this mess.

"If I don't do it I lose a sale."

"If I do do it I'll get a certain % that bites my ass."

Anyway - Bob Madera is one of the smartest cam guys you'll run into. He knows the oil, metallurgy,etc, etc, dealio with all cams - including all the rollers.

BTW: Don't ask him to grind a flat cam, you might make the guy have a stroke. Many of us want him around for a long time.

Vinny P

If you are going to change over to billet steel roller cams ( which I would also recommend ) be careful of which distributor gear you run. Those cams eat up standard gears. On my 540, I used an Isky billet roller that is actually a 2 piece cam. All the lobes and bearing journals are billet except the rear most bearing and distributor gear. They press and pin on a cast piece on the back of a billet cam. There is a gear that will work on billet cams, I dont remember the type or name. I am sure someone here knows it.

team Tickfaw

That is something I have not thought of. Just replaced the gears on the bottom of both distributors with stock merc. Does anyone know a part no. for a replacement "hardened" gear to go on the stock merc. distributor?

Griff

Did you provide the parts for the engine builder??????????????

If not, I'd say the problem is his and he should be footing the bill and going after Ultradyne. If you did provide the cams, then I'd say he is doing right by you and really stepping up to the plate.

Iggy

Was reading an article in last months HOT ROD about cam failures and today's oil. Seems that since the automakers have gone to roller lifters the anti-friction requirements, additives, in oil were changed. This change has caused accelerated wear on flat tappet cams and lifter failures.
Your failure may not be a bad cam or lifters.

MESABALANCING

No one is exempt from cam problems now days . Cam cores are being made in China and cam manufacturers are not using proper quality control standards. I build our poker run engines with hydraulic roller cams which are made by the leading cam manufacturer in the country and a couple of years ago I had problems with dist. gears going bad the manufacturer did nothing for me and I had to cover one hell of a warranty bill for a great customer. I go back to flat tappet cams have to be broke in on the dyno by the engine builder and the customer has to witness this for himself before it's put in the boat no engine builder should place an engine in a boat without testing and breaking the engine in first no excuses no dyno no payment there is no way for both parties to be sure averything is ok. That's not just broken engine but oil leaks water leaks temp issues ect. Best of luck Laz Mesa

SB

iTrader: (1)

Mesa - so true.

Few shops have gotten dynos and test stands to make sure this is being done correctly, but..........

Unfortunately we've seen perfectly broken in cams get worn later in life, whereas before once it was broken in correctly and checked fine it was all set.

Oils seem to be just as important. So, what does one do once the customer leaves for good even with the list of the oils to use ?

Good discussion over here:
http://www.speedwake.com/upload/show...lat+tappet+oil

Also do a search on flat tappet cams over there too: a lot of info came out.

Anyway - going hydraulic roller will avoid this mess and if you pick the correct one will make more power everywhere and be more driveable. Remember, chances are it will be cheaper anyway doing it this way first.