Whipple vs. Procharger
05-17-2011, 07:00 PM
#32
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Bad job in marketing? Maybe it was the fact that they supply EFI kits with "FMU's" and one-way check valves to trick the PCM to not set MAP HI codes. Come on, the one thing Procharger has done is created a market for tuners to fix all there issues. The SC's themselves make power, but the quality of the kit componets, welded aluminum intercoolers and lack of any EFI support has been the crutch.
When you add the proper ECM calibrations, fuel systems, etc., the kits are the same price as ours. How about resale of the boats, talk to any boat dealer or mfg and they run from a boat that has a PC on it, can't hardly sale them.
How can a company claim to be "pro's" or "experts" when they can't even offer a proper PCM calibration? I can list hundreds of issues just on 496's alone, let alone 500hp, 502 mag's....... In most cases, PC doesn't even have knock protection because its off in the factory cals.
When its carb motors, if you got a good carb setup guy for a blow through, then they can work pretty good, but on the EFI side, there light years behind and should be held accountable for selling systems that literally have very little chance of success! Big intercoolers can't fix ignorance. Computer controlled fuel injected motors need to work WITH the SC, not against it.
When you add the proper ECM calibrations, fuel systems, etc., the kits are the same price as ours. How about resale of the boats, talk to any boat dealer or mfg and they run from a boat that has a PC on it, can't hardly sale them.
How can a company claim to be "pro's" or "experts" when they can't even offer a proper PCM calibration? I can list hundreds of issues just on 496's alone, let alone 500hp, 502 mag's....... In most cases, PC doesn't even have knock protection because its off in the factory cals.
When its carb motors, if you got a good carb setup guy for a blow through, then they can work pretty good, but on the EFI side, there light years behind and should be held accountable for selling systems that literally have very little chance of success! Big intercoolers can't fix ignorance. Computer controlled fuel injected motors need to work WITH the SC, not against it.
05-17-2011, 07:57 PM
#33
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I never had any issues with my welded innercooler BUT I will agree 100% with the fact that Prochargers customer support and FMU's/tuning bandaid's are a real joke!! Would I still buy one, with my current capabilitys and tuing skills, yes. Would I reccomend one to a beginner who is going to bolt it on in his driveway and expect it to run without help from a tuner, HELL NO!!
Mark
05-17-2011, 11:26 PM
#34
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I don't think there's any question as to which kit is better. I have said it in other threads as well. The last Whipple kits I got even came with a tube of silicone and an allen wrench.
What seems to have gotten Dustin and some others a little excited was my statement that Prochargers will make more power then a Whipple. I have heard lots of talk about torque curves but have yet to see a well built procharged engine have any difficulty making masive torque. Dustin, when I say prochargers make more power it's in reference to marine engines on pump gas. It's great that you talk about blown alchohol engines running A980's and psi's but that has little in common with pump gas marine engines, might as well compare turbines.
I still stand by my statement.
Dustin, what did your "Eat your hearts out turbos" motors make on pump gas?
What seems to have gotten Dustin and some others a little excited was my statement that Prochargers will make more power then a Whipple. I have heard lots of talk about torque curves but have yet to see a well built procharged engine have any difficulty making masive torque. Dustin, when I say prochargers make more power it's in reference to marine engines on pump gas. It's great that you talk about blown alchohol engines running A980's and psi's but that has little in common with pump gas marine engines, might as well compare turbines.
I still stand by my statement.
Dustin, what did your "Eat your hearts out turbos" motors make on pump gas?
05-18-2011, 11:27 AM
#36
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The twin screw was invented for use on internal combustion engines and it later found many other uses.
We did not invent, but we have certainly pioneered the use. We've also come out with our own designs including new profiles. Previous generations were units that we helped develop but did not mfg. We did pay for Lysholm's original development.
Lysholm and Eaton partnered for the Ford GT program and a failed attempt at supplying Mercedes SC'd vehicles. Lysholm went bankrupt last year.
Our SC has no common componets of an Eaton or a Lysholm. Every componet is different in one way or another.
Every SC has its own key features and applications, so its difficult to compare. But when testing compressors of equal flow capacity, the twin screw always has higher total AE, not by much, but it is in fact higher. The centrifugal have slightly better thermal efficiency but take more power to drive. This is not he said, she said, this is the facts. The rest is about the "package". If the system or package isn't the correct fit, then its not going to produce optimal performance, goes both ways.
We did not invent, but we have certainly pioneered the use. We've also come out with our own designs including new profiles. Previous generations were units that we helped develop but did not mfg. We did pay for Lysholm's original development.
Lysholm and Eaton partnered for the Ford GT program and a failed attempt at supplying Mercedes SC'd vehicles. Lysholm went bankrupt last year.
Our SC has no common componets of an Eaton or a Lysholm. Every componet is different in one way or another.
Every SC has its own key features and applications, so its difficult to compare. But when testing compressors of equal flow capacity, the twin screw always has higher total AE, not by much, but it is in fact higher. The centrifugal have slightly better thermal efficiency but take more power to drive. This is not he said, she said, this is the facts. The rest is about the "package". If the system or package isn't the correct fit, then its not going to produce optimal performance, goes both ways.
05-18-2011, 06:14 PM
#37
I currently have a 502 (509) Dart block engine with a 250 blower. I have 605hp at 5500rpm with 7 lbs of boost. No intercooler because there is no room in my engine compartment. I want at least 850hp. I need something low profile so I don't have to cut my engine hatch. The Whipple Quad cost almost twice as much as the procharger kit with intercooler. Should I go with whipple or procharger? Or, should I modify my motor and keep the 250 blower?
05-19-2011, 06:37 AM
#39
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I think as it stands right now prochargers EFI setup is more of a bandaid..but are getting better....thats why I am switching mine to a carb setup...having a pro systems blow thru carb built as we speak....but on the H/P deal where this started...prochargers rule the H/P wars at the drag strip..period !! I know we are talking boats...but sheer H/P from them is unreal...
