Stereo advice: help me piece together a GOOD system!
 

I'M basically starting from scratch although there's a few things in the boat now (4 x 6.5" Clarion 2 ways and one Clarion 12'" marine, all older vintages early 2000s).

It sounds decent, but not what I'm looking for. Am interested in multiple subs and loud, clear music.
Possibly something to compete with my buddy who is running 4 12" JL in his 29 Outlaw! lol

There are so many opinions out there...I dont have a super tight budget, but if I can get Kicker subs that are just as good as JL, I will do that for sure!

I read that Polk Audio MM are the best for mids/tweets.
What about AMPS? Concensus on subs?

The best sound will come from subs in a box, ported works best for boats, but sealed can work too if you are tight on space. Start with a place for a box and see how much room you have to pick subs.

Second would be the highest quality amp(s) you can afford. Look for RMS wattage and matched them to your speakers, if anything you want more power from your amp than your speakers are rated for, not the other way around.

Get the mids and highs as high up as you can for best sound, the higher the better. Again you are limited on choices based on your boat design, you sometimes have to be creative.

The last few years I have used kicker solobarics L7 12's DVC in ported boxes on a few systems I did. Both systems run of huge amps at 1 ohm. They pound and never quit, you will not find a stronger sub IMO. Bass that is tight for rock, but pounds and carries for dance music.

Lastly most high quality stuff is already up to marine standards, don't be afraid to think outside the box and use standard 12v stuff.

4Bus, I was hoping you'd chime in . ;)
This is the kind of advice I'm looking for !

So Kicker L7 Solobaric? Dual (4ohm) or single voice coil?
What would be a good amp to run a pair of these with

I need a head unit too, the one in my boat is a casette deck! lol
Really, all I need is something to plug in USB/IPOD or Sirius.
What about a pre-amp?

I would have to agree with 4bus. I run kicker speakers and subs, and there stuff sounds great. I just have 4 6.5's and a 10 in a sealed box running 800watts rms and the subs sounds great. Of course, JL does make great equipment, but you can find some great deals on kicker and other brands. I like to use crutchfield.com, they always have good deals, and their tech support is second to none.

4 ohm dvc bridged to 1 ohm. You will need an extremely good 1 ohm stable mono class d amp to run these the right way. The two set up I did one has an old school Orion hcca amp ( they don't make any more) the other set up has a 5 ft long hifonics mono amp. Both pound with just two subs, from feel and sound you would think they had 4 or 6 subs.

At home I have a link to a web site that rates all amps, I can't find it on my phone. I will post it later with a few examples of good buys. Your sub amp, subs and wiring will be the most expensive thing if you want the baddest :D

How much room do you have for sub boxes? I also have some pics at home of creative use of space with subs I have installed. You will need 2.5 cu ft for each solobaric 12 ported, 1.25 sealed

Check out the Fusion MS-IP600 or MS-IP700 head units. They dock I-pods internally.

I have this one, and have installed 4 of them for friends. 6 pre amp outs, iPod iPhone controller, and the remotes and relatively inexpensive. Great head unit for the money

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001S2...9881783&sr=8-2

I agree on the kicker woofers however I would stay clear of the L 7 & L5s because they require a lot of power to drive and they are pretty expensive too. you may want to look into the kicker comp line as they are real efficient with power and are very durable.
you said you were on a tight budget so I think I can help you out
on your amplifiers you need to stay with a Class D amp because they have a regulated power supply and do not pull a lot of amperage from your alternator / batteries. planet audio has a D class 5000 watt amp that will beat the hell out of 4 12's and do it all day long without overheating and like I said they're very easy on your batteries and alternators.... for about $165 bucks
I have for Kicker Comp 12's , 8 rockford fosgate marine 8s ,and 4 6 1/2s , and 4 soft dome tweeters on a planet audio 5000 and 2 planet audio 4 channel 2400 watt.... and my setup is about as nasty as it gets.

as far as sealed or ported enclosure on the water I stay with sealed.. I'm just not a fan of a ported enclosure that is tuned to drop a bunch of low bass in an open area. I would much rather a sealed enclosure that hits all the notes.... Just my thoughts.

I was thinking about that head unit too!

OK, what about this for Amps?
Kicker
http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehic...AdIdZ420298172

Or a JL1000/1
http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehic...AdIdZ409600206

JL makes great subs and amps.

Exile audio make some killer marine
equipment. http://exileaudio.com/store/index.ph...ubwoofers.html

The wakeboard boats have some killer systems in them. A 3000 watt system is nothing to these guys. I know the boat layouts are different, but the idea is the same. Open air environment + a cabin. Depends if you are after sound while you are under way or while chilling at anchor. Look in www.themalibucrew.com stereo section. It will give you some good info.

or What about this for sub and amp set-up?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-KICKER-CAR...cd3a8b&vxp=mtr

IMO that is not enough amp for those subs, and that wiring kit is garbage :)

I'll get you more info tonight

Good advice, I agree with most of it. However if you have the power to push the L7 solos they can't be beat IMO.

A proper tuned port can still deliver rich bass, and used less power to do so. My $4000 home speakers are in ported boxes :D prob is most people guess with porting, rather than using a proven set up designed for the speaker. Kicker includes ported box specs, and if you follow them you will have great range, tight bass, and a more efficient set up than sealed

I love the L 5 & L 7s if you have an assload of power to push them... but he started it all off by saying he was on a tight budget and I think I gave him the best advice possible.
and this is just "in my opinion" I love ported enclosures in a closed room or car but in a boat /open top I just do not care for them at all.... but everyone ears are different.
at least he's getting some really good advice from everyone

Ok, my budget is a little flexible. lol
I know its an oxy-moron, but looking for the most power at a reasonable cost.
IE if something is just as good as JL for subs, but costs less, I'll take it!

[QUOTE=Rambocj7;3793605]Ok, my budget is a little flexible. lol
I know its an oxy-moron, but looking for the most power at a reasonable cost.
IE if something is just as good as JL for subs, but costs less, I'll take it!

Kicker

Kicker it is!
What about amps to power a pair of 12"L7?

How about this for an amp?

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...ONX11500D.aspx

Good choice going with at least 12s.
Rockford's 1500.1bd is high on my list. I use it with 2 L7 15's with solid sound.
A well designed box can turn boom into BOOM so dont cheap out there.

If you can, listen to the L7 with various amps. Each pairing will sound different.
To my ears JL is very tight and controlled (what they are known for) but in marine = too quiet without LOTS of head room.
Kicker amps are cheaper, can tend to get hot and are very sloppy but that sloppy can yeild a very loud, almost tollerable sound in the open air enviroment.
Rockford gets loud but maintains control and is more durable. I have never had it shut down, especially with a 12v fan blowing over the fins.

ARC KAR 1200.1 would be a great choice as well. A little more $$ but more efficient and solid with good sound.

Almost better than playing louder than someone is playing LONGER. dont be the d-bag that has to run his motors to keep the stereo going.
3-4 good 31 series deep cycle batteries (or 4D's) and a charger adequate to keep them charged. (charge full after every use)
Check out Kinetk or Iota power supplies instead of a marine charger.

I like the mid level Alpine HU with 3 sets of pre-outs

Square inches generally rule, whether in engines, subs or the midrange.
RF 8" are solid performers.
WetSounds has probably the most powerful 6.5 short of going with a compression horn set-up.

Atleast one run of 1/0 wire will be needed to minimize resistance. check out KnuKonceptz if you are doing it yourself.

Dont mess with the old stuff, pull it out nicely and put the packge on craigs list for $200 and sell at 125-150. Some guy redoing a pontoon or runabout will eat it up.

heres a amp that will push those subs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Amps-USA...item1c2b524ea4

stay away from the MBquart Onyx line, all garbage! Trust me.

Those square subs they have out, just total trash. Cheap stuff with what used to be a good name stamped on them, they sold out.

Love the old school stuff. One of the stereos I did for a friend he asked if I could use his existing amps, I usually say no but he pulled out 3 of the 4.5 ft long old school Orion HCCA amps...the ones they used to arc weld with for demos. We used one at 1 ohm on 2 solo L7s, just amazingly clean loud power.

You know how budgets work in this sport :lolhit:

BTW, that is a nice looking gun you have there!

I hear ya.... I got my boat and I was just going to clean it up and just enjoy it. I rebuit both motors and while I was there I decided build them to handle boost so all the goodies went in there just incase, and then I put some blower scoops on it. I told my wife that the scoops would help let air in and keep the engines cooler making them last longer.... I am about to installl some CMI big tubes and 5" tails...(she thinks to make the motors breath better and get better gas milage)
I sold my drives so I could buy some Steelings boxes and Bravo XRs (to make it more reliable) Im so glad my wife does not have and clue....so now im looking for a pair of 8-71s and I started off on a budget too

Thanks for comment...I think it does not look bad ether for a 23 year old

I did a extremely cheap "budget" stereo a couple years ago using all JL and Alpine, sounds damn good too..... I bought it all used and going on 3 years with no issues at all....

3 JL MArine 10's
JL 1000/1 amp
JL 300/4 amp
4 Alpine 6x9
2 Alpine tweeters

For that amount of parts it sounds absolutely amazing and I have less then 600.00 in whole system, placement of speakers plays a huge role as was stated, get the mids and highs as high as possible.... I have friends that have a chitload more invested and they cannot believe how mine sounds, its not the best but it does a great job and was very "budget" with quality parts....

Sounds better in the Cig then it did the Baja since the Cig is not rotted and absorbed all the sub sounds... LOL

Ebay is your friend for audio stuff. I hardly use it for anything other than that anymore. Also, sonicelectronix is about half what the local stereo guy wants. Probably some gray-market stuff that fell of a container ship, but it works. Just for reference, I had an alpine pdx 600w amp running 2 Alpine free air 10s, and everything else (12 speakers) was Polk MM 5.5-6x9s run by JL 6 channel amp, and if you stood in the cockpit, it would make your ears bleed with absolutely clean and clear sound. The only thing that sucked was the minute you jumped off the swim platform, a wakeboard boat would come along with 27 spark-o-matic speakers on a tower and blow you out of the water. I'm trying to figure out how to get a couple of really nice speakers (like the JL7.7s) that I can either have in a freestanding encolsure I can store, then throw on the sunpad, or mount on a pole behind the front bolsters.
And BTW 4bus, I'm starting from scratch with a 98 32 Fountain, so any brain power would be appreciated...I don't want to hijack the thread, so send me a PM.

Yeah, 4bus has provided me with some great advice so far!

I've been picking up some stuff already.

-Sony head unit with wired remote CDX-M60UI
-Pair of Kicker L7, dual 4ohm voice coils, 12"
-A ported box (coated with resin) that will fit under my seat
- Kicker ZX 1500.1 to power the subs
-Rockford Fosgate M282 8" 2 way speakers

Am thinking about the polk audio MM 6501 for some highs.

I'm lucky and have an arch (never thought I'd say that lol!), so will probably mount a pair of speakers on the arch so you can hear them OUTSIDE the cockpit. I agree, its hard to have a good system when youre not in the cockpit.

Just adding the tweeters high alone added a ton to hear from outside the cockpit... we can be 50ft away at bar and still hear it...including bass....love good stereos!

I have 4 of the DB6501 in my fountain, I could not hear a difference at the store from the upgraded MM6501, however they demo'd them from the same amp. I would rate the speakers a 9/10 for sound quality, there are a few out there that are bettter, but not many. Also a plus that they are marine rated. The only thing I stick to for marine is the miod high speakers. Make sure you use SS fastners in place of the steel ones they send.

What is your budget for the mid high amp? I know of a few 4 channel amps that can be bridged out to run 8 speakers stable all day. Let me know how much you want to spend.

Also....you just have to find a place for a pair of these, just awesome, and they can be heard from I think 2 miles away....hahah

http://www.amazon.com/Lanzar-OPTIBT7...=super+tweeter

One other thing, do not skimp on the power. You will want your system hooked to at least two 1000 amp batteries, so you will need 3 in your boat to leave one as a starting battery.

You are going to have two large amps, you will need 0 gauge power and ground wire running to a high quality distribution block that breaks it down to 4 guage, this block should be as close as possible to the amps, the main fuse or breaker should be as close as possbile to the battery. You can also find caps with distribution blocks built in if you like. I would suggest a high grade capacitor seeing that you will be running your system with the engine off vs a car.

Be careful buying wire off the internet, read the review because many claims are not what they should be. Keep in mind if you buy a kit you will still have to buy a long run of ground wire, car auido kits come with just s short gound because they can use the chassis. I am not a fan of the kits, but some are good, again...read the reviews.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i...-amp-kits.html


These things work great for wire stays, you do not want any of your wire groups touching, you may get noise. They stick on and then you run a zip tie through them, for the heavy wire run a ss wood screw in the middle after you stick http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/el...ack-100-pieces

I agree. To get anywhere near the quality of components that were put into those old school Made in USA hi end amps, its almost impossible without spending a fortune.

Gimme a old Soundstream Reference amp, and big old Orion, US Amps, pheonix gold, etc and Im a happy guy. Most of this new stuff is chinese junk.

Actually forgot to say that I picked up an amp wiring kit as well, one on SONICELECTRONIX actually for a pair amps. Same as you said : 0 guage, then a distribution to 4 gauge. So at least I got that right! lol

The Polks would be good then for the highs? Add those tweeters too? Or would the polk components be enough. Sometimes I dont like the PIERCING sound of tweets! lol

Good job, take you time on the wiring, solder where you can, even the crimp connectors I just solder them.

Tweets only pierce when they are set up wrong. Those horns are the difference of you playing the stereo at half volume or full volume for everyone to hear in the water, they are that good and sound great. With horns in the right area, tuned right, you can talk over your music on the boat but people in the water will be able to hear it clear.

Those horns do not sound like the cheap treble blasting you are used to, in fact without seeing them most would not know you have horns. Mine are on their own channel of the amp. so balancing them out is easy.

I am more into sound quality than just being loud. I spend a lot of time blalancing and tuning my systems, I will help you with that once you get everything wired up.

OK so get those horns and the Polk MM6501. Done! lol

So gimme a run down of amps, from cheapest to most expensive, 4 channel. I know you said no to Mb Quart ONX, but I've been reading some good reviews on them.... ;)

I am all about budget stereo's and this is what I did and they sound great.

Kicker Mids and Highs from hifi sound connection
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/S...id/0/SFV/30046

Kicker Comp 12's
here is a pair from sonic electronix for $100.00 shipped

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Kicker-10C...item53ef2c2fe8

5 channel kicker amp. This is for a car so just don't put it below the water and you should be fine.
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/S...id/0/SFV/30046

That is a total of $535 shipped to your house and a very nice loud system.

Although I did 4 in my last boat and will do the same in the new.
[IMG]http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/...2012194740.jpg[/IMG]

A couple more thoughts..........

An equal length of 1/0 neg wire will still need to be ordered. That is one weakness of buying car install kits. A car grounds to steel anywhere solid, boat needs an equal direct run back to battery.

I would never waste money on a capacitor, they are only effective in a scenario where the batteries are artificially above their resting voltage (12.8, ie due to alt running) and if you are concerned with headlights flashing. On a boat - zero value. Spend the money on more batteries.

The Lanzar is just as the amazon title states, a super tweeter. I have no expreience on how it sounds but it is definately not a horn.
Compression horns (HLCD) are another entire degree of efficiency = loud. WetSounds, Exile, Bullet and their knock off Krypt are some examples. I run WetSounds on top and Krypt in boat because they can be purchased raw, without a can enclosure. HLCD is not budget but they will dominate!

If you want one amp for the highs that can deliver quality power for the dollar; Rockford Fosgate Power T600.4.
Bridged to 2 ohm on all 4 channels, it will deliver more than 100w to 8 speakers. I have run one for 3 years. It will get HOT but have not had any thermal protect issues with a fan blowing and I frequently play 6+ hrs straight.

I disagree for passing on a cap in a boat, for two reason. One is the batteries are a long way from the amps, that alone will cause voltage drop on big hits. Second most of us run high resistance marine batteries, which are great for long periods of steady power, but suck at delivery of quick burts of high amp power. The low resistance of a cap fills this gap and keeps the music clean on bass hits, without the music gets muddy any time high amp draw is called for. My cap keeps my power above 11.5 at all times, before the cap I was seeing voltage drop in the 10's with big hits. Huge difference when trying to sustain clean sound.

Look closer at the "super tweeter" compared to a conventional tweeter. It is a cross bewtween a tweet and horn, the sound carries similar to a horn, but still retains sound quality, instead of sounding like a PA speaker like some horns. They are a must in a boat IMO, you just have to hear them to uinderstand

Suprised you are having a heat issue on that RF amp, what ohm load are you running? I installed one of the Rockford 8004T that runs 8 speakers at 2 ohms with no fan in a closet, no issues. Those amps are one of the few 4 channel amps that are one ohm stable.

Love those subs, my second choice in subs if one doesn't want to spend the big money on solobarics. My first choice in subs if one wants to run free air. I had 4 of those mounted in the walls of my cruiser running free air all summer, they were amazing and held up great to a pounding and weather. The new owner of the cruiseris still running them today, and he is not nice to them either.

Those mids that you suggested I am not a big fan of, for a few bucks more you can have the next step up in kicker marine comp speakers, the 6250 and have a huge difference in sound and power handling. http://www.amazon.com/Kicker-09KM625...onent+speakers

I have to agree with what a lot of you are saying. Kicker l7's would be nice but take way to much power. On a boat you need it to be efficient and not require tons of power. That kicker 5 channel amp I showed will run my 4 kicker comp 12's and all the mids and high almost to the max. Which means only having to power one amp which will draw less on your batteries. Also if you can push speakers to the max you would be surprised with the sound quality that will come out.

"Those mids that you suggested I am not a big fan of, for a few bucks more you can have the next step up in kicker marine comp speakers, the 6250 and have a huge difference in sound and power handling. http://www.amazon.com/Kicker-09KM625...onent+speakers"

The ones you are suggesting are just the newer model still the component series. Personally I would just run the regular 6.5 kicker marine coaxials. Remember I was talking budget you could buy 2 pairs for the price of your 1.

Over the years of messing with stereos I have found it better to power match. All I was giving was my opinion on a cheap but still nice sounding stereo. That will run on just 2 batteries for a while.

You want to be able to hear the stereo while you are running not just sitting still.