....It's for certain now......meltdown !!
08-27-2002, 10:31 AM
#91
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BLOWN FORMULA,
yea looks like your flooding the motors at idle. when the engines are cold the ECU goes into a enrichment mode. I think ASM can adjust this mode. this mode is based on feedback from the coolant temp sensor. I think the OEM setting is 120 deg. Checkmate 454mag makes a good point. get the scan tool and check for error codes and check the readings from the MAnifold air pressure sensor,throttle postion sensor, Idle air control ,coolant temp sensor and the absolute manifold air pressure sensor. also check for anything restricting the air flow to the IAC Motor. restricted air flow will cause the IAC to keep searching for the right counts , to idle correctly. you might want to open the secondary blade on the throttle body just a bit. there should be an ajustment screw located on the linkage.
JDELO
yea looks like your flooding the motors at idle. when the engines are cold the ECU goes into a enrichment mode. I think ASM can adjust this mode. this mode is based on feedback from the coolant temp sensor. I think the OEM setting is 120 deg. Checkmate 454mag makes a good point. get the scan tool and check for error codes and check the readings from the MAnifold air pressure sensor,throttle postion sensor, Idle air control ,coolant temp sensor and the absolute manifold air pressure sensor. also check for anything restricting the air flow to the IAC Motor. restricted air flow will cause the IAC to keep searching for the right counts , to idle correctly. you might want to open the secondary blade on the throttle body just a bit. there should be an ajustment screw located on the linkage.
JDELO
Last edited by jdelo; 08-27-2002 at 10:34 AM.
08-27-2002, 11:22 AM
#92
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OK>>>>> So I just ordered my Rinda Technologies Mercruiser Scan tool @399.00 + overnight shippingalso ordered new liquid filled 1 1/2" mechanical gauges for the fuel rails from Summit....19.95 each and another new EGT sensor probe from C-P Performance......
I WILL have the proper tools to diagnose this!!
08-27-2002, 07:16 PM
#94
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BlownFormula;
Can that scanner give you live data? That is what you really need, not just a code reader. If it doesn't I would not waste your money on it. You need to see the sensor readings while the motor is running. If you were closer to me I would gladly put my Quicksilver Scanner on for you.
Can that scanner give you live data? That is what you really need, not just a code reader. If it doesn't I would not waste your money on it. You need to see the sensor readings while the motor is running. If you were closer to me I would gladly put my Quicksilver Scanner on for you.
08-28-2002, 12:48 PM
#95
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Checkmate 454Mag,
The rinda scan tool captures data in real time.
I don't know if it can record and store data like your quick sliver tool.
I've used the quicksliver tool and like it alot.
JDELO
The rinda scan tool captures data in real time.
I don't know if it can record and store data like your quick sliver tool.
I've used the quicksliver tool and like it alot.
JDELO
08-28-2002, 07:17 PM
#96
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That sounds good for a $400. scanner. I didn't think it would do all of that. That's alot cheaper than what I paid for my Quicksilver!!
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08-29-2002, 09:33 AM
#98
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Scanner available at - Rinda Technologies.com $399.00 + freight
Rinda makes the Mercruiser scanner.....which Mercruiser sells for $1000-1200 !!!Recieved it yesterday.
Full Mercruiser functionality, but does not include a code book, just call BAM for the book you need...... you needed that anyway!!! Terrific deal !!
Rinda makes the Mercruiser scanner.....which Mercruiser sells for $1000-1200 !!!Recieved it yesterday.
Full Mercruiser functionality, but does not include a code book, just call BAM for the book you need...... you needed that anyway!!! Terrific deal !!
08-29-2002, 11:19 AM
#99
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" THE FIX !!!! "
But first, let me say "THANKS to Aeromotive tech, Brett.... The man is dedicated and was calling ME to help !! He was much more helpful & interested in solving the problem than Mercury Racing or Procharger.
Now, the END of the story....
Thru discussions with Aero-, I reveled I had ordered oil filled pressure gauges to control needle oscillation. Bret asked for details.....extreme & rapid needle bounce of at least 20-30# of the needle......this was happening on both engines & I assumed it was normal then....Brett said it indicates a problem of the system & wanted some more tests done. I took of Wednesday & went to the lake again!! I removed the fuel line to the fuel rail & installed a pressure gauge at that point.......the needle was ROCK STEADY !!! The regulator was now determined to be fine !! (again !)......Called Brett back & discussed lengths of fuel line & location & distances of the fuel line from regulator to pump.
Brett said to move regulator to the top of engine as close to the fuel rail as possible. (I will explain why soon!)....Pretty major job with twins....
Well, in short, turned on the pump and the needle "bounch" was now +/- 2# 1 mark +/- of set pressure. Started the engine !!!
As soon as it fired, the fuel pressure running was only 22#, not 40# as set before !!! The engine had been starving for fuel with the regulator mounted 4-5 feet away from fuel rail.
Mercruiser uses "batch or bulk" type injection. All injectors fire at the same time. This creates a "hammering" of fuel in the fuel line. Liquid does not compress, but fuel line will flex or expand. When the injectors would "squirt", the pressue would drop to well below 30# & when they closed the pressure would soar to over 40#. The Gaffrig gauge on the regulator was showing a steady 40#, we were seeing this fluctuation in pressure but thought it was normal for those gauges...... moved the reg to the engine & cured th problem...... now here are my complaints:
Procharger EXPRESSLY told me it was OK to mount to the bulkhead & not the engine.
Procharger initially sent me the new regulator and a rubber vacuum or boost reference line (I thought). This normal & as it was on my last engine......they also sent me two brass o-ringed plugs to plug the fuel rail.......no instructions, the next week I ordered a Install manual.....
again asked about the regulator & we discussed the problem.... PC told me the fuel pressure should be NO MORE than 28-20# max !! (per Merc it's 37# min). I also found out after recieving the manual the rubber hose was for the regulator air bleed, not the boost reference! They sent no "hard" hose or fittings for the boost reference hookup!!! (another week lost!!) I asked to be sure the parts would be here by WEDNESDAY!! Big family reunion this weekend, must have the boat.....!!! Today is Thursday & I have no parts from PC !!!
Due entirely to information and questions answered by Procharger technical "team" I have LOST 3 weeks of boating !!!
AEROMOTIVE saved the day, & it was Prochargers instructions & advise that were the problem all along!! I am sendina letter to Accessible Technologies about the degredation of their tech help. It used to be very good.....no more!! The engines now run, but I still cannot use the boat due to no boost refernce line or fittings!! This will be week FOUR...... it only took a week to rebuild & machine the engine !!!
But first, let me say "THANKS to Aeromotive tech, Brett.... The man is dedicated and was calling ME to help !! He was much more helpful & interested in solving the problem than Mercury Racing or Procharger.
Now, the END of the story....
Thru discussions with Aero-, I reveled I had ordered oil filled pressure gauges to control needle oscillation. Bret asked for details.....extreme & rapid needle bounce of at least 20-30# of the needle......this was happening on both engines & I assumed it was normal then....Brett said it indicates a problem of the system & wanted some more tests done. I took of Wednesday & went to the lake again!! I removed the fuel line to the fuel rail & installed a pressure gauge at that point.......the needle was ROCK STEADY !!! The regulator was now determined to be fine !! (again !)......Called Brett back & discussed lengths of fuel line & location & distances of the fuel line from regulator to pump.
Brett said to move regulator to the top of engine as close to the fuel rail as possible. (I will explain why soon!)....Pretty major job with twins....
Well, in short, turned on the pump and the needle "bounch" was now +/- 2# 1 mark +/- of set pressure. Started the engine !!!
As soon as it fired, the fuel pressure running was only 22#, not 40# as set before !!! The engine had been starving for fuel with the regulator mounted 4-5 feet away from fuel rail.
Mercruiser uses "batch or bulk" type injection. All injectors fire at the same time. This creates a "hammering" of fuel in the fuel line. Liquid does not compress, but fuel line will flex or expand. When the injectors would "squirt", the pressue would drop to well below 30# & when they closed the pressure would soar to over 40#. The Gaffrig gauge on the regulator was showing a steady 40#, we were seeing this fluctuation in pressure but thought it was normal for those gauges...... moved the reg to the engine & cured th problem...... now here are my complaints:
Procharger EXPRESSLY told me it was OK to mount to the bulkhead & not the engine.
Procharger initially sent me the new regulator and a rubber vacuum or boost reference line (I thought). This normal & as it was on my last engine......they also sent me two brass o-ringed plugs to plug the fuel rail.......no instructions, the next week I ordered a Install manual.....
again asked about the regulator & we discussed the problem.... PC told me the fuel pressure should be NO MORE than 28-20# max !! (per Merc it's 37# min). I also found out after recieving the manual the rubber hose was for the regulator air bleed, not the boost reference! They sent no "hard" hose or fittings for the boost reference hookup!!! (another week lost!!) I asked to be sure the parts would be here by WEDNESDAY!! Big family reunion this weekend, must have the boat.....!!! Today is Thursday & I have no parts from PC !!!
Due entirely to information and questions answered by Procharger technical "team" I have LOST 3 weeks of boating !!!
AEROMOTIVE saved the day, & it was Prochargers instructions & advise that were the problem all along!! I am sendina letter to Accessible Technologies about the degredation of their tech help. It used to be very good.....no more!!
The engines now run, but I still cannot use the boat due to no boost refernce line or fittings!! This will be week FOUR...... it only took a week to rebuild & machine the engine !!!
08-29-2002, 11:52 AM
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I agree with you on procharger tech support. I have emailed in past my displeasure. The problem is you are not talking to the correct person. Of course the person I talked to knew what he was talking about, but he is gone now. I think last person I talked to was Mike & he took care of problems right away. I would suggest either ask for mike, (I will verify that is guy I have been talking to) or first questions you should ask tech guy is to see if he knows about your type of setup. They all will tell you they know what they are talking about. In past after asking tech guy a few simple questions that I already knew answers to I knew to keep talking to him or someone else.
For you whipple guys that are going to try to hold this over prochargers head, is whipple has problems too. Before I procharged I taked to a whipple tech, this was before I got on OSO & found out about Dusty(? Dustin?) I did not believe info guy gave me was correct & found out latter he was not correct. I know of people that I have talked to that have issues with both.
For you whipple guys that are going to try to hold this over prochargers head, is whipple has problems too. Before I procharged I taked to a whipple tech, this was before I got on OSO & found out about Dusty(? Dustin?) I did not believe info guy gave me was correct & found out latter he was not correct. I know of people that I have talked to that have issues with both.
