Hey ICDEDPPL-
You need to grow up with your little shot game. If I care to tell someone to stop listening to all the bad advise that is being thrown around on this particular forum and talk to someone that has designed more engines than all the people participating here combined times 10, then that is what I'm going to do. I'm not even going to go into details because I'm sick of all the my dick is bigger bs that seems to be going on here. We all have opinions, but when it comes down to it, they are just that opinions. This has nothing to do with who has built the most engines but all the data that has been compiled by real professionals. So again if you don't like that I told someone to call Bob Madara then TOO BAD!

Ramos-
Here is a great article that will show you what the AFR 265 Oval is capable of,(the Brodix also isn't far off the pace). I've used this head before and it's very impressive and IMO you could pick nothing better for what you are looking to do. My build was almost a carbon copy of what was built in this article, other than I had a Madara cam that was very close to the second grind used in this comparison. Compression, carb, Stealth vs RPM intake, rods, all the same, it was a very impressive engine. When I replace the garbage factory heads on my 454/420's I'm replacing them with AFR 265's. If I ever want to stroke the 454's to 496's these heads will work just fine as they will out flow a dart 325 Pro 1 up to .65 and even then it's within a few CFM's. The engine doesn't know what size runners are bolted to it, it knows how much air its getting and how fast it's coming in and going out. You want the smallest runner that will deliver the desired CFM. If you do some searching you will find more than one test with this head on a 496 with equally impressive results. This is truly a very well engineered head as you will see from this article.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/artic...e201/A-P4.html

Any comparison articles on a 265 oval vs a 305 or 315 rect with a blower on top? Because Ramos was considering a blower

With a blower I would not use oval due to your reasoning- used oval blower parts are about impossible to find. However if he doesn't care about used then I would still use the 265's. Flow is flow and the 265's flow a lot of air. 600 hp out of a 454 with a mild cam is nothing to discredit, and I seriously doubt there is another head that will do better at the RPM range we run our engines. As I'm sure you will agree it's also more than just a MAX hp number. That means very little and this is where the AFR head shines as it has mid lift numbers that no other head under 325 can touch. I've owned these heads and I've never felt an N/A engine as responsive as the engine that I built with these heads. I see no reason why this head would do poorly with a blower, the only downside is available used parts.

I am not knocking the 265 or any of the aftermarket heads btw. I may be doing a mild 454 setup this winter for a buddy's 55 Chevy. It's gonna be a street cruiser, and think that the 265 small oval is perfect for that. Tony mamos will tell you the 265 was developed for street and towing originally. However , it's proven to be capable of more than just that.

Has anyone ever done a back to back say afr 265 oval vs a 305 rect afr on a 468/496/502? I've seen some of these 600hp 496ci builds , roller cammed, with the 265's. while the numbers were nice , especially for those doubting what the small head was capable of, they were in line with what I've seen 500" roller cammed aftermarket aluminum small rectangle ports do as far as output.

As for the blower with a 265 oval, I don't know. I have 308cc rect port dart aluminum race series on my 468's. they made a solid 730ish ft lbs well across the rpm band , and 800 Hp with 6-7psi. On paper the flow numbers might be close, but I'd have a hard time being convinced I could have made over 800hp using them on my combo. Maybe a little more tq down low, but on my particular setup, I want to gain power at 5500-6000, where I'm propped. Picking up 20-30ft lbs at 2500 doesn't help me much there.

I've got a old school test were they took off a set of gm oval port heads on a blown 454, and bolted on gm rect ports. The engine picked up about 40-50hp. Comparing any good aftermarket aluminum modern casting , to the gm rectangle port heads, is apples to oranges. They have big runners, poor flowing exhaust, and poor chambers.

A friend of mine has 496's, 10:1 compression, dart intakes, Dean Gellner Spec'd cam (not sure of the grind but its a big cam I want to say its around 260 duration and .67 lift), Dart Pro 1 heads lightly worked and he made 650 hp. That's 50 more hp for bigger heads that cost a lot more than the AFR's, 50 additional cubic inches and a much bigger cam. I'm sorry but I will have to disagree that a 496 with a smaller cam and rectangle port heads will produce the same power as the same engine with 265's and a bigger cam. Maybe I misunderstood your post but it sounds like that is what you are implying.

Now the one point I'm trying to make isn't what head makes the most HP at max RPM. All of the better heads are going to be within 10-15 hp. The difference is mid throttle response and this is where the new "ovals" are superior to the rectangle ports. There is no comparison with a N/A engine! Can you make a rectangle port flow like the new ovals, yes. But what do they do to make this happen? They reshape the port make it look like the new ovals, the dead spots in the port are filled in. Why spend all this money to make old technology perform like the new designs. Your going to need one he!! of an engine to need more than what the AFR 290 can do.

When I was buying my AFR's I stopped by and talked to Valako and at that time he was designing a new Marine head. It was a Dart 308 with the floor filled for better port velocity as well as a lot of porting for better mid flow numbers. However the cost was far more than the AFR's by $1000's, it didn't flow more and it was iron not aluminum. When the head was done it looks very similar to the modified oval of the AFR. Now that he is actually producing them I would be interested in what they are flowing and the final price.

Either way I have no experience with blowers, I'm strictly talking N/A. Chances are if someone is hesitating spending the money on good heads the chance they are going to spring for a blower down the road are slim. Plus you can always sell the AFR's and buy different heads if needed. They are about impossible to find used so your going to get top dollar for them from someone trying to save a few bucks. Everything is a compromise, what is ideal in one combo isn't in another.

This is how I think: ICDEDPPL conducts himself commenting on this forum, acting like a jealous, little baby.

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Update - I couldn't hook up with machine shop this weekend so both blocks are still in back of truck. They WILL be dropped off this week though.

Endeavour32 - Thanks for all the input. I'm pretty much set on going Brodix for both engines. I can get a good deal on their bare castings. I haven't ordered anything yet but I am consulting my engine builder and Madera on all combos.

MT - I would like to keep this build open for possible blowers in the future but I'm going to have a serious discussion about this with my builder. This past season I kept my boat in a slip and the lady is pushing for it again next season. I'm afraid the 91 gas at the dock might be ****. All the other boaters with blower engines I know trailer their boat so they know what gas goes in. I would hate to burn up my $$ due to inferior gas.

I may stay N/A for now. But even so, the Brodix BB2 305cc runner or BB2 Plus with 312cc runner will be a great improvement over the stockers. They might not be the MOST optimal setup as the AFR's but for my cost they will be a great improvement. If I decide to remain N/A indefinitely with this build then the race rites are in the running also. I just have to make up my mind.

Delete!

endeavour32; No not at all; just tired of some of crap, people come up with. They have no informative; information. But they have to make smart-ass comments towards someone, that helped many people here. That's correct; Bob, figures and grinds all my cams. Never disappointed in 6 yrs.