Oil pump thread
 

Theres standard pressure
High pressure.
high volume,
high volume, high pressure

What would a fellow want that has spring oilers (16) .040 orifices stealing about 15 psi of pressure and volume?


decisions decisions

http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/H...inum-Oil-Pumps

10778 is what I've put in a few bigger power engines. Stay away from the anti cav, I took an engine apart that had one, kept having low oil pressure problems at idle. Bearings looked pretty good though.

10778 that,s what i run.

Mike you shimmed your pump or something right?

Along with spring ollers I also have piston oilers, so I run Titan pumps. They are adjustable to whatever pressure and volume you require.

yes,a thin shim behind the spring to increase the pressure a little.i have a oil pump dyno so i know what the pump is doing before it gets installed.

This is what we do to mine also, I have 75psi cold idle, 40 psi hot, I am a fan of good pressure and volume, one set of engines I did years ago I had standard volume and pressure, wiped mains in both in 3 hours.... after redoing with HV and shimmed pumps I never had an issue again.

How about the billet aluminum pumps? I really like them. I think I would want high volume with spring oilers.

depends on the oil pan...have to be careful on some high volume pumps as they can pump the smaller capacity pans dry...

Has anyone tried the CVR OPS45? I like the idea of the adjustable pressure, even though I'm not sure how your supposed to adjust it.. What kind of pressure are you seeing with the 10778 in a big block? I've got a 14qt pan so I'm not worried about sucking it dry. Ide like good pressure and volume though because I plan to run hard!

Oil pressure has always; seemed to be open for discussion. If testing a pump, with a gauge in a bath of oil gives you a reading of 65-70 psi, you have to remember that is at the pump. The reading say at the upper oil galley at top of block will be slightly lower. This is going to come from a decrease in volume, which results in lower pressure.
If you speak with a crankshaft manufacturer or one of the engineers, they will still go by the old school method of 10 psi for every 1000 rpm. When you look at the engineering aspect from the bearing manufacturer, the theory changes. The oil and bearing along with the location and design of the crankshafts oil galley, are going to determine the hydrodynamic wedge created between the crank journal and bearing surface. Oil temperature, bearing clearance, and the straightness of the bearing bore ( Main bore straightness in block ) are going to determine how straight the crank rides on bearing. The deflection and rpm of the engine are other factors to consider when setting up bearing clearances along with the viscosity of the oil you will be using.
I have run 54 psi oil pressure in BBC at 6000 rpm, using a Schumann oil pump and having the relief set at 75 psi at the pump incorporating a external .500 relief check ball. That is with 50 wt Redline Synthetic Racing oil, now keep in mind the mains are at .0032, rods at .0026. If I was to tighten the mains up about .0005, that would have a great affect on the oil pressure over all. The oil temp once above 140 will drastically change oil pressure only due to it's flow capabilities, oil must flow and flush the bearing in order to not overheat or scuff the bearing or crank.
Running a high oil pressure not only creates parasitic drag, it excessively loads the distributor gear, cam gear, and shaft housing and bearings in the distributor. High oil pressure also creates spark-scatter, in extreme cases also add the load on the timing chain.
I'm sure all of you know; the oil has to have ample pressure for supplying the mains, rods, cam and lifters, with it's final destination of lubricating the rocker arms and cooling the valve springs. Sucking the oil pan dry and filling the top end of the engine with oil would mean the oil isn't returning fast enough or the oil pan is way too small. Crankshaft windage and pan design are also going to greatly affect oil return and if it is aerated, causing failure of bearings with air pockets mixed in pressurized oil.
So don't be set on having high oil pressure as your safety factor in a build. You could have high pressure and still wipe your bearings out or you could have lower pressure and have like new bearings the next time you freshen up the engine.

What would have been the reason I was wiping mains at 55psi and .0030 clearances 1-4 and .0035 on rear main? lack of flow or pressure? this was YEARS ago.... the last build I went 75 psi with shimmed pump and new scat cranks, had GM forged cranks before but wanted new uncut cranks...same clearences, pans, fittings, coolers, and all and just adding pressure I never had an issue again... just curious on thoughts...guys said it was my filters, and the 90 degree stock merc fittings causing my issue, I argued it and proved that was not the issue after 5 years of no issues after changing pump setups.

Contamination from dirt, oil temp, or lack of proper flow. Line bore, straightness of mains is critical, without a visual inspection it's hard to say.

yea, thats the funny part all of that was addressed, cranks at the end were .020 under so I chitcanned them and got new and then the HV pumps and 75 psi, dunno guess it does not matter now lol was just curious thx bud

You guys were right on the money 10778 is what Melling recommended.
After some research and MERs post I`m not sure I really need new ones.. with the spring oilers the pressure is less but the volume may still be there. Seems some guys run fine at 6000 with 50psi for years (in a drag car).
The spring oilers are .040 x 16 = .64. That is over 1/2" of volume loss thou.



Any one recognize what the oil pumps are :


http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s8/...66528833-4.jpg




I have 10qt Canton oil pans so I don`t think Id run those dry.. Melling didn`t even ask about oil pans size when they made their recommendation.


http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s6/...39463520-3.jpg

you have mark IV blocks? I am looking for a oil pan that clears my engine mounts.... I have very little room between block and mount, the sump needs to start AFTER the mount... but mine are Gen6 ...what mounts do yours have? pic?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533117[/ATTACH]

50 PSI in a boat at 6000 rpm scares me, might be ok, might not.... I think it all depends on the setup, Cliffords 1075's would be 55PSI but also dry sump and all that fun stuff.

Iirc, Moroso put those gold tags on their modified melling pumps. I had a pair of the Moroso blueprinted and coated pumps. Didn't keep me from spinning bearings. Some builders just don't watch everything.
Disclaimer* I bought the engines complete with receipts. Line bore was off and clearances on the tight side.

i spin mine to 6000
+ rpms all the time and less then 50 psi of oil pressure..beeen doing it for over 15 yrs and no issues..a lot of oil pressure robs horse power and puts a major strain on the bronze dist gears.. thats just my o2 and what works for me..

what main clearence you running?

One of these will work[ATTACH=CONFIG]533137[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]533138[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]533139[/ATTACH]

I ran stock melling high volume oil pump with valve spring oilers with out a problem.
High volume oil pump at 70lbs will put the same amount of oil in the top end as a low volume oil pump at 70lbs.

16 - .040" holes is only .020 sq in. That's not much flow area. Like about a single 5/32" hole.

I ran no restrictors with the valve covers in the picture. Just had some big chief valve covers done with spring oilers by blp. If some one wants me to check the orifice on my new valve covers let me know.

tim i reallly dont remember ,,i built the engine way back in 1997 and havny touched it..it does have high dollar goodies in it..i spent 6500 just on the short block...0003 sounds rite..i like to run a little loose clearances,when the engine get hot you know how sh!t can expand..

I was curious... I had issues with .003 and 55 psi that's all other factors come in play just wondered

As Mark stated earlier, you likely had something else underlying, ie bad main alignment, dirt/contamination etc. without full examination, like he said, it's purely speculation. Sucks never the less, and does make ya wonder. Mark has had a very similar setup as mentioned clearance and pressure wise, and had superb results doing so. Granted it was with a Schumann pump(they don't relieve pressure backwards through the pickup like a regular BBC pump does, and have a different relief valve circuit).

After speaking with Mark(MER Performance) I decided to go with a custom Schumann pump. Vern who owns the company is the Bob Madera of oil pumps, very intelligent and a true gentleman. Many will argue that the BBC oiling system is robust, however examine it's design and function beyond that of a grocery getter, and you will soon come to the realization this is a complete farce.

So what is the main issue with running the Melling Anti-Cavitation pump that you have found? I installed a SP/HV version on my 540. Seems I have plenty of oil volume, but the pressure is a little low for my liking by the time it goes through the external system, so I was going to put the high pressure spring in. Electronic gauge says 45 PSI hot (20 idle) at filter boss port and cheapie mechanical gauge at front oil galley port says 50 psi hot. Oil pressure maxes out at 3000 rpm and does not climb as I increase rpm. I selected the anti cav pump because I will be turning a few more RPM than most (6300 peak/6500 limiter).

Not sure about you, but i don't warm the oil in boats with a heating element on the pan, fire it up let it idle, go out through the no wake zone , and then when the oil temp starts to come up, bring it up on plane and run it. Then come off plane and idle through the harbor to your destination. Way too much time to be staring at a gauge showing 10 lbs or less oil pressure for me.
I will say that engine had tight bearing clearances, and the bearings were in very good shape.

Same here. I go easy on it until the temps start to rise, otherwise I would be idling around all day until oil temps warm up. My oil temps are not an issue whatsoever. They are in a perfect range and the thermostat works just as it should. My engine has clearances right along the lines that have been mentioned in this thread, nothing exotic or experimental. I have the motor on the stand right now and I will pull a couple caps off to see how bearings are doing when I change my pump pressure spring. Heck, for all I know I could have a faulty gauge sender. I get max of 60 psi cold on that gauge.

Here is a link for Schumann oil pumps. They have quite a few features melling does not. The most important one being an external bypass vs reverting the bled off oil backwards down the pickup. Mark Rinda uses quite a few of these pumps. He recommended I give one a try, so I bought the 140HV series. Specifically states it can be used with external coolers and spring oilers. Ships with a rated pressure of 72psi, however you can increase pressure to suite your needs with a spring/shim kit that Vern sends with the pump. Also had a provision for my Dan Olson oil pickup, and a copper gasket for the sealing surface where the pump mates to the rear main cap.


http://www.schumannsdynamicperforman...-oil-pump.html

Mark, great info as usual. Question for you, or anyone with knowledge in this area, slightly off topic. But, what do you think of the components here in Icdedppl's shortblocks?

540ci
Mark IV bowtie block
Eagle H beams with 8740 bolts
Iron Main caps with standard bolts, non splayed
Eagle Crank 4.250
900HP 6000RPM roots blown engines.

My gut would want to go thru the bottom ends, and minimum go with better rod bolts, possibly main studs or billet caps. I personally more worried about that than the oil pressure. Is there a legit concern here?

Looks like a nice pump. Price is reasonable too.

Did you fire up that 496 yet? What did you end up going with as far as clearances on the mains/rods?

I would up the rod bolts to the ARP 2000's and stud the caps.of course this means the main line is gonna need honing,but then you could set the bearing clearance better.I'd personally check the crank,unless eagle got better,my journals were all over the place.pita to set up.but once done has been bullet proof for over 8yrs.

sure does,talked to them yesterday,said they could have 2 pumps ready to ship in a week.really like that they'll take some load off the distributor gear.mine is finally showing some wear.

Why those? Just curious, Joe.

And a bit off topic, but what is the value and application of using oil filters with a bypass valve in it?

Why the rods or the bolts ?

Sorry, the bolts. I figured those were in there when the rods were honed, but wondered if something else was the case.

those rods and the 8740 bolts were in the engines when he bought the boat.

Put the heads on last week and getting ready to let Madera know what length pushrods I will need. Everything else is on hand except the custom tails CMI is going to make for me. As for clearances, I went .003 on the mains( which are studded, honed with studs torqued) and .0025 on the rods (Callies 4340 H Beams w/ ARP L19). Using Clevite H-Series. My Schumann pump is set at 72psi, which even with my spring oilers and cooler circuit should be more than adequate. Went overkill on the oil pan(kicked out 14 quart Dan Olson) however I think it will provide much better oil control.

My time to work on this project is severely limited due to kids, work etc... Just re rigged the entire fuel system including adding a 6 port vs stock 3 port IMCO fuel valve, all -10 goodridge black fuel line with anodized black fittings for feed and -8 for returns on both tanks. Also coating all of the rear bilge decks with a product that looks like LineX. Had carpet in there from the factory.