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-   -   Out of the box heads? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/331495-out-box-heads.html)

Full Force 10-15-2015 08:27 PM

My machinist has been in business 43 years... I TRUST him 120% .... I was told even with video proof of calibration and measuring that it was not a valid argument in my situation...


Originally Posted by sutphen 30 (Post 4366651)
I've been using one forever and a day.


14 apache 10-15-2015 11:03 PM


Originally Posted by horsepower1 (Post 4366203)
That would be a first for me. Very rarely do I see guide clearance on an AFR head much over .001". They used to be very consistent and straight, but something has changed lately and their guide work is not what it used to be. I think they changed guides, as well. Even with their tighter than ideal (for marine use) guides, I don't think you can get a better production head.

Have you used any brodix heads in the past on a high end build? Just wondering.

MER Performance 10-16-2015 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by Full Force (Post 4366569)
When mine were measured I was informed the sunnen was not good enough or accurate enough, now it's ok to use gimme a fukkin break.....

Tim, Is that response directed towards me ?Who said; it wasn't good enough or accurate enough and why ? Also what measuring instrument is recommended why and by who? If a company is measuring with a digital measuring device for production and QA, I hope that's not a expectation, expressed that every machine shop is supposed to have.
If Sunnen's bore gauges, guide measuring devices, rod measuring fixtures are not up to the job, I would like to know; what a majority of the machine shops are going to use.. I want to know; who told you that and why; real simple question..
I'm not here, to get in a pissing match with anyone..... I really don't care what heads you use, how you measure them, what problems you have, FACT; YOU OR YOUR ENGINE BUILDER IS THE FINAL SAY ON EVERY PART IN YOUR BUILD, RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!
If you didn't phrase that statement towards me : I apologise..... If you did; GIVE ME WHAT AND WHY ....

horsepower1 10-16-2015 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by 14 apache (Post 4366713)
Have you used any brodix heads in the past on a high end build? Just wondering.

I have two high-end builds going now with Brodix heads, but up till now I've never used a set. One is a 515ci EFI twin turbo BB Chev and the other is a 540ci Vortec supercharged BB Chev, MFI alky motor. The TT will be in the 1500-2K hp range and the Vortec motor will be in the 2500hp range, neither are marine engines. I've worked on plenty of sets of Brodix heads for customers. The heads on the 515 TT are 18* big Dukes and the heads on the 540 are a set of the BB3 CNC that I've put bigger valves in, 50* valve job and hand ported.

Full Force 10-16-2015 07:19 AM

Not directed at you at all Mark, when I had issues and talked guides some Oso members, afr, and bob told me that it was not being done right and the Cnc machine that did them were much more accurate and could not possibly be wrong... Kind of a sore spot to me that when clearly my guides were tight, others have seen similar readings but I am the idiot according to some here at Oso...oh well my engines are good now


Originally Posted by MER Performance (Post 4366764)
Tim, Is that response directed towards me ?Who said; it wasn't good enough or accurate enough and why ? Also what measuring instrument is recommended why and by who? If a company is measuring with a digital measuring device for production and QA, I hope that's not a expectation, expressed that every machine shop is supposed to have.
If Sunnen's bore gauges, guide measuring devices, rod measuring fixtures are not up to the job, I would like to know; what a majority of the machine shops are going to use.. I want to know; who told you that and why; real simple question..
I'm not here, to get in a pissing match with anyone..... I really don't care what heads you use, how you measure them, what problems you have, FACT; YOU OR YOUR ENGINE BUILDER IS THE FINAL SAY ON EVERY PART IN YOUR BUILD, RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!
If you didn't phrase that statement towards me : I apologise..... If you did; GIVE ME WHAT AND WHY ....


kvogt 10-16-2015 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by Full Force (Post 4366768)
Not directed at you at all Mark, when I had issues and talked guides some Oso members, afr, and bob told me that it was not being done right and the Cnc machine that did them were much more accurate and could not possibly be wrong... Kind of a sore spot to me that when clearly my guides were tight, others have seen similar readings but I am the idiot according to some here at Oso...oh well my engines are good now

Looks like the customer support from your vendor was lacking. You would hope your vendor would help you (first) get to an actual root cause then look at who is responsible.

Full Force 10-16-2015 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by kvogt (Post 4366772)
Looks like the customer support from your vendor was lacking. You would hope your vendor would help you (first) get to an actual root cause then look at who is responsible.

That's a whole different story that was explain throughout my engine thread

horsepower1 10-16-2015 07:31 AM

The Sunnen gauge is pretty much the standard of the industry. I know some machinists who use a small bore gauge and there are several really accurate ones available, but the problem is that, while they can give you a very accurate diametric measurement in one place, they tell you nothing about round or straight. The Sunnen has a small "shoe" on it that, I feel, will tell you more about the guide than any one point or ball type bore gauge.The truest test is a pin gauge but not everyone can afford to have a complete selection of high quality long pin gauges (preferably carbide) to the tenths, nor can just anyone learn to have the feel to effectively use them. In the end we just find the method that works best for each of us who do this stuff, and the results will tell us if it's right or wrong. I can say that by my measurements (Sunnen P310), I've never had a guide related issue. Getting the guides straight and true is as important as the clearance. If they're banana shaped, or hour glass shaped (or the opposite) then your clearances aren't what you think they are.

horsepower1 10-16-2015 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by Full Force (Post 4366768)
Not directed at you at all Mark, when I had issues and talked guides some Oso members, afr, and bob told me that it was not being done right and the Cnc machine that did them were much more accurate and could not possibly be wrong... Kind of a sore spot to me that when clearly my guides were tight, others have seen similar readings but I am the idiot according to some here at Oso...oh well my engines are good now

That would be utter nonsense.

Full Force 10-16-2015 07:51 AM

I also checked them myself with a pin gauge and came up with same readings, my buddy owns a machine shop and let me have his set to check for myself, but I am wrong having 2 devices saying the same thing....


Originally Posted by horsepower1 (Post 4366775)
The Sunnen gauge is pretty much the standard of the industry. I know some machinists who use a small bore gauge and there are several really accurate ones available, but the problem is that, while they can give you a very accurate diametric measurement in one place, they tell you nothing about round or straight. The Sunnen has a small "shoe" on it that, I feel, will tell you more about the guide than any one point or ball type bore gauge.The truest test is a pin gauge but not everyone can afford to have a complete selection of high quality long pin gauges (preferably carbide) to the tenths, nor can just anyone learn to have the feel to effectively use them. In the end we just find the method that works best for each of us who do this stuff, and the results will tell us if it's right or wrong. I can say that by my measurements (Sunnen P310), I've never had a guide related issue. Getting the guides straight and true is as important as the clearance. If they're banana shaped, or hour glass shaped (or the opposite) then your clearances aren't what you think they are.



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