I don't know the answer to that, but I have a hard time believing Cam Motion would use chitty cores, although anything is possible. It almost looks like there's some runout on the lobes in the videos posted my Tim, but its hard to tell with lighting and video quality. The first sets of cams I got from Bob were definitely cam motion lobes, or specs anyway, and they worked great and had zero issues. One set was basically a copy of the 731 cam, and the other was a decent sized tigh lash solid. He also gave me a great deal on cylinder heads, and I was very happy with the service and product. This was about 7 years ago, unfortunately he strayed from that business model and began getting more involved in spec'ing the cams based on things he'd read and heard in seminars at PRI, not through doing actual testing and development in the real world. Every single bad cam that I have removed has MK scribed on the end. At one point he told me he was writing his own lobes and the Kip at CM was using a smoothing program and cutting them on the cnc, later when this was brought up as being a possible issue he backtracked and said all the lobes were proven engineered lobes from CM. Who knows what the truth is. If he had been less defensive, and listened to what I and others were telling him years ago, and actually taken the time to figure out what the issues were, all this could have been avoided. It's simply not in his makeup to say he made a mistake. When MER yanked a goofy cam out that only had dyno time on it and was already starting to wear the lobes, Bob send just box it up and send it back I'll sell it to someone else its a perfectly good cam. I'd hate to be the guy that bought that one..

You must be talking about these. Besides the wear issues, they weren't making the power. Swapping them out with different cams, one from lunati, other ones were howards, the power went up, as you already know this story. I believe that was when bob starting telling everyone, MER doesn't know how to tune a holley EFI, MER 's dyno is way off, MER sucks, and so on.

I believe once you had issues, it went from Haxby is the best, the guy is so awesome, to , haxby is a liar, haxby is not running enough valve spring, haxby sucks.

We already know I'm a gravel hauling troublemaker, who googles stuff, never turned a wrench, and is a liar.

Dam he is good at damage control.

Alex did you ever get MK cams in Cam Motion boxes? Or were they all in the brown generic cardboard boxes?

nice business model and stellar customer service.

I wouldn't blame the issues on CM, they are doing what the customer wants ie BM . Comp and Dyno Cams ground us some crazy **** over the years and would always say ..... Your on Your Own with that design guys. They know what works . The Cams in MTs picture look to have lifter perpendicularity issue or the Grinding Wheel on the cam grinder was loaded up , or improperly dressed for squareness , It almost appears that it was ground tapered like a solid lifter cam to make the lifter rotate!

Wonder if that would put any stress on the lifter tie bars? know a few guys who broke some lifter tie bars with bobs cams. Never really thought about that.

Here's my issue. I have a brand new cam that was mocked up in a block and spun by hand with checker springs on the head and the roller left marks on the lobe. 0 rpm 0 spring pressure. Oh and now that I've looked a little closer it looked like the grinder wheel was extremely coarse. I could have done better with my bench grinder. So, who's rectum do I put this cam in.

Marine Kinetics Bobbby is an excellent snake oil salesman with a good amount of conman built in.
Great at never putting anything down in writing to bite him in the ass later.
Feel bad for Orlandi Performance, Brian was severely bamboozed to the point old Butt Hurt Bobby was pulling the strings behind the scenes and Brian was making phone calls to peoples work getting them in trouble, not to mention getting kicked out of here over it. ( mods should reconsider letting him back in imop)

I am however enjoying being able to speak out about BHB without having to wear 3 sets of flame suits around here finally.. he has cost many people a lot of $$ and pain and suffering.

I've been reading about this issue from Tim, and you over the past year. What really bothers me is Bob never chimed in once! A few years ago I was having Joe run some numbers for me. Then I get a phone call, saying I'm getting really bad advise followed by a dozen technical reason why the combo I was going to run would suck! I ended up getting into a year long chit storm of arguments with, Joe, Mike, Kevin and Dan. Never once did Bob jump in and say what I was saying was correct. Maybe because it wasn't correct. A little over a year ago I was buying some stuff from a guy with a Nor Tech up by Fox Lake. Guy said he installed a MK cam and lost 5 mph vs the 651 that was in prior. Like all of you are saying here, Bob had every excuse under the sun as to what he (boat owner) did wrong and that the cam was not the issue.

I've been a Bob cheerleader for a long time, but today that ends. If you make a mistake own up to it! With that said- I'll own up to my mistake of listening to Bob and not others on here trying to give advise. Then telling them they don't know what they are talking about, BUT being told by Bob to not repeat what I was told- or say it was he that told me. Whatever live and learn!

hey,I just called you the googler,,but at least you weren't called a janitor or best better yet,,doesn't even own a boat.Thats what was spread about me.:)
and I've always said buy off the shelfs cams,even if it is 20yr old tech.:)

What sucks is, you and I got pretty heated with each other, basically over Bob and the bs. We are local to each other, and generally , should have been on the same team. I too was bamboozled by bob's words, advice, and what not. If bob said it, it was gospel .

We should be helping each other out, to avoid issues here, and in person, as thats what boaters used to do. Bob did a good job of dividing everyone up. You were either with him, or you weren't. Either way, glad to see your post.

I think soon, the oso tech section, will be great again. :evilb:

that No-tech owner reground the MK cam and found all of his speed back plus a little. only changes were reground cams and spring changes.

I sure hope so. I'm tired of all the 600hp 540's around here...

The Cams in MTs picture look to have lifter perpendicularity issue or the Grinding Wheel on the cam grinder was loaded up , or improperly dressed for squareness , It almost appears that it was ground tapered like a solid lifter cam to make the lifter rotate!

Kinda looks that way, good eye!

For sure.

had some cams look like that,,sent them back and guess what they said,,yeah,nothing wrong.cams tried to walk out of he block.got new cams and no more problems.name company had the problem.

as for hardness,was told buy bullet if you start to get down to about .010" or less when grinding,,your gonna have problems.pretty sure thats what I remembered.

Some of us been here on oso quite some time. For me, 12 years now .

I cannot say, that I recall, ever seeing a picture posted, video posted, of Bob doing anything. Building an engine, tuning an engine on dyno, tearing down an engine, rigging a boat, or anything remotely related, to what his website leads you to believe he does. Has anyone else?

Disregard, tried to delete

I hate to say this but having been born a gear head and a lot of experience racing and wrenching on all sorts of racing stuff. I always kind of new Bob really didn't have any hands on experience. I could tell it was all text book talk which is ok but the text book only gets you so far and hands on real world experience is what really matters. I've been in and around some really bad azz stuff some was designed/ engineered buy guys that couldn't even read or write. So at the end of the day I really can't fault Bob cause he is what he is (textbook) and I had always really known.

same here and the same goes for 1 of the dildo duo.:Dhe's talked to enough shops now,,that he has all the secret cam combos and parts to tell you most of the time what could work.you know the saying,,throw enough darts,,once in awhile you'll hit the center.:D

Funny how we were all right huh? Imagine that

This stuff here is my satisfaction... If my issues cost me money, and frustration fine, but others learning and moving on from him, makes it worth it sadly I was out thousands but oh well....

Me too!!! Lol

I am away with family today, barely been on, Mild post pics I sent if you feel it helps, installed height and springs.. Or whatever Joe knows every last detail about what I find... Feel free

So, what are you guys thinking ?

Something like this ? NArrower centers ? Something larger ?

Brand:Crane Cams
Manufacturer's Part Number:168771
Part Type:Camshafts
Product Line:Crane Hydraulic Roller Camshafts
Summit Racing Part Number:CRN-168771

UPC: 021174045079
Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,600-6,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 248
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240 int./248 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 302
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 310
Advertised Duration: 302 int./310 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.621 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.632 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.621 int./0.632 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 114
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Grind Number: HR-240/365-2S-14 IG
Valve Springs Required: Yes
Quantity: Sold individually.
Notes: Camshaft incorporates an integral cast iron distributor drive gear. An aluminum-bronze distributor drive gear not required. 10.5 to 12.5 compression ratio advised. Also fits 502 c.i.d. engines.

Always wanted to try that cam but think it might be a tad small on 540 plus builds depending on what end result expectations are. I was going to use them in my 496's. What about the crane 791 cam other than compression requirements. Lift and duration looks good on a larger CI build.

I went 12° and more lift(.650's range) more on both in and ex w/ ls112 on a couple of 540's.both single screws.then ran up nice to 6000+,,idled really well too w/ doms.all off the shelf cam lobe designs.

MT listed a couple howards grinds about a dozen pages back that looked about the best I've seen for off the shelf. I noticed howards always list lift depending 1.60, 170, 1.80 rocker ratio. I realize many don't like to use 1.8's however is there anyone has had any real known issues with running them. I can see perhaps a little harder on valvetrain with geometry but... Again anyone here that's had real issues with them?

Yeh, 114 doesn't thrillme, but a call can have that changed.

What compression on those?

I'd have to look back somehow and find FF's compression...I think it's close to 9:1.

I have, but that was before the newer generation hr lifters that are out here now.. The 1.8's reduced top rpm by about 400rpm. So, that probably has changed.

10-1

crower stainless steels in my motors since 2005,,still perfect.

That cam is too small. Need mid 250's on intake high 250's exhaust 109 lsa cam needs to go in 10 degrees advanced. Something along those line in mid 5xx" motors with 320range heads will be in the 725-750hp range a tic over 6,000 rpm's with compression in 9.5:1 range. They really make a bunch more torque if you put a dome piston in them around 10.3:1

This type of cam will revert h2o

my cams on the hair edge,,just need to idle out at about 900 and your fine.

Oh hell yes it will break tie bars.

I can never understand how these guys can start a business, gain a big following , make money at it , and dont know anything pertaining to there business. Damn
baffles me every time. Then when the game is up they discredit actual knowledgeable people and businesses . But eventually the Bullchit is scooped out and the truth becomes clear.

My controlled induction 2016 cam software, suggests for Tim's engine, max rpm of 6000, A 252/260 108 LSA 654/680 lift cam.

My dyno simulator, with tims 241/246, 112 LSA cam, shows a peak HP of 658HP at, 5500 with his components( prob not far off if tim had dynoed with no accessories and dyno headers). Switching to the cam softwares 252/260, hp peak goes up to 699 at 6000RPM. Switching that 252/260, from a 108 LSA, to a 112 LSA with a 110ICL, the HP climbs again, to 711hp at 6000. Going to a 114, with a 110 ICL, drops it big time, to 683HP at 6000rpm.

So, back to the 252/260, 112 LSA setup. Sim say 711HP at 6000RPM. Thats with a CFM rating of 1000CFM. Bumping that, to a 1250 CFM, the engine is now making 728HP at 6000RPM. Peak torque, still in the 4500RPM range.

Now, granted thats just pplaying around with a software program, but that certainly seems fairly in line with this guys claims?

Here is a few that I have built for power boats. 540-548 bbc's, ported Iron eagle 308 heads, not radical porting, but detail work, chamber work, ex port work, the intake received attention thru the whole runner, about 320cc ish when done. 10:1, the Dart single plane that came on the boat originaly, on the mecruiser HP 500 502, Custom comp hydraulic roller, 252-260 at .050, .640 lift, 112 lobe sep. For numerous reasons. Did like 8-10 of those, either 540's or 548's out of the original 502 blocks. THey would make 715-730 hp, and about the same for tq, peaked about 5800 for hp, in the 4500ish for tq, depending on carbs used. And they rocked. Also built similar engines, but made them 509's, using the stock crank, they would make about 680hp and about 665 for tq, but, I would pull the duration back to 248-256,to keep the same rpm range.They would actualy go 6000-6200 for peak hp, same lobe family, so the lift was the same, and the same 112 lobe sep.

^^^^ this is the direction Im headed this winter.

Were these the cams u sent me cam card?