Solid roller adjustments or check intervals?
12-02-2016 | 08:44 AM
#91
Frank's Marine Service
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Elkton, MD
That's basically what we do. The only problem with this is because the lifter must be honed to get the tolerances tight a lot of times there is taper. Once you run the cup down the taper in the lifter grabs the cup and your screwed the lifter will never come back up. Sometimes you can bang it on a block of wood and it will release but usually not. If the lifter had a hole all the way through the bottom the taper would be a problem cause you could run the hone all the way through but it's not so sometimes you get a good set sometimes you don't.
Interesting, I googled what had been shared with me a few years ago and found an old article for reference; http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-...-roller-power/
12-02-2016 | 08:56 AM
#92
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From: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
I really think solid vs hydraulic, is like ford vs chevy. Some guys swear by them, some guys hate them. Historically, when someone thinks "solid roller" , they think of a cam that slams the valves open, and slams them shut. When they think of hydraulic, they think of a cam that opens the valves nice and easy, and sets them down nice and easy. Both appllications can be made, to open the valves in a similar manner. Hydraulics can slam stuff around too.
Theoretically, a hydraulic lifter plunger, should , when filled with oil, have no give. If they did, and you tried opening an exhaust valve against over 1000psi of cylinder pressure, plus seat pressure, the valvetrain would look like a kid jumping on a pogo stick. Instability is what breaks lifter axles, pounds out valve seats, busts rockers, etc.
I think the #1 reason, hydraulic lifters have been in play in most oem applications, is simply the self adjusting feature , and noise . Nobody wants a new grocery getter than has a noisy valvetrain at startup, or wants to have to adjust valves on their minivan. For decades, any serious performance engine, had to run solids, because the hydraulic tappets just couldn't keep up with higher engine speeds and power outputs. The lifters have come a long way, and nowdays , guys are turning some serious RPM with a hydraulic. Hyd cams, are also getting more and more aggressive as well, to compliment the lifters. A racy hydraulic stick, isn't going to be more reliable than a similar racy solid stick. And an easy hydraulic, isn't going to be more reliable than an easy solid. All things being equal.
For Tim's engine, I don't think I would move to a solid. Any solid that is going to give a noticeable performance increase, is also going to probably be a hard lobe . If I was Tim, I would be looking for a cam that is easy on parts, this isn't a competition engine build. A well designed, and well spec'd hydraulic roller, coupled to good lifters, proper spring setup, geometry, etc, should have no reason going the distance. Stay away from the unorthodox cam lobe designs. Focus on duration that suits the combo, a triple check your assembly and machine work, and go boating. jmo.
Theoretically, a hydraulic lifter plunger, should , when filled with oil, have no give. If they did, and you tried opening an exhaust valve against over 1000psi of cylinder pressure, plus seat pressure, the valvetrain would look like a kid jumping on a pogo stick. Instability is what breaks lifter axles, pounds out valve seats, busts rockers, etc.
I think the #1 reason, hydraulic lifters have been in play in most oem applications, is simply the self adjusting feature , and noise . Nobody wants a new grocery getter than has a noisy valvetrain at startup, or wants to have to adjust valves on their minivan. For decades, any serious performance engine, had to run solids, because the hydraulic tappets just couldn't keep up with higher engine speeds and power outputs. The lifters have come a long way, and nowdays , guys are turning some serious RPM with a hydraulic. Hyd cams, are also getting more and more aggressive as well, to compliment the lifters. A racy hydraulic stick, isn't going to be more reliable than a similar racy solid stick. And an easy hydraulic, isn't going to be more reliable than an easy solid. All things being equal.
For Tim's engine, I don't think I would move to a solid. Any solid that is going to give a noticeable performance increase, is also going to probably be a hard lobe . If I was Tim, I would be looking for a cam that is easy on parts, this isn't a competition engine build. A well designed, and well spec'd hydraulic roller, coupled to good lifters, proper spring setup, geometry, etc, should have no reason going the distance. Stay away from the unorthodox cam lobe designs. Focus on duration that suits the combo, a triple check your assembly and machine work, and go boating. jmo.
12-02-2016 | 09:03 AM
#93
Frank's Marine Service
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Elkton, MD
Good idea because next you're going to run into the limitations of the setup. Whether it be the TRS breaking, X Dimension too low etc. You're likely to hit a brick wall with speed and then have to make other changes. Been there and done that many times. I got a few t-shirts!
12-02-2016 | 09:05 AM
#94
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From: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
Randy opened up oiling to my current lifters for this reason, I wanted to make sure I had no issues with using a heavy oil, I run 20/50 at this point be used I have loose clearances
12-02-2016 | 09:26 AM
#95
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From: bel air, md
Right and loose clearances and trying to make a hydraulic lifter perform to its highest potential just don't work together. The GPM loss with loose clearances is astounding and doesn't help. Another + for a solid lifter. If you want the hydraulic to perform at its highest potential you have to run the motor tight use water for engine oil and keep the oil cool in the process. It can and is done at the highest levels of endurance racing but the machining of everything has to be absolutely perfect. Then we open a whole new can of worms and the price of the parts triplesand the labor involved to put the motor together is just ridiculous.
12-02-2016 | 09:31 AM
#96
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From: bel air, md
If you run a hydraulic on a mild cam profile it really doesn't matter but if you want to get serious with it and make power with an aggressive lobe. Heavy weight oil and a loose motor just isn't going to work and I'm sure Randy if honest will agree.
12-02-2016 | 09:33 AM
#97
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From: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
I have 25-40 psi pressure at isle and 25 being lowest ever after the longest hard run ever, under way I have 70-80 at all times... I get what your saying and yes I run the boat hard but I don't think I am having issues there, I could be wrong but don't see issues. Never did in past with any HR lifter before and I lost 1-2 lbs after changing lifters
12-02-2016 | 09:36 AM
#98
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I didn't open up the internal "clearance" of the piston to bore fit. I have a higher flowing pushrod seat. Two completely different animals. The leakdown rates are still the same.
ETA: Tim had mentioned he was worried about the rockers not getting enough oil. This is designed to allow more oil upstairs when using thicker oils.
ETA: Tim had mentioned he was worried about the rockers not getting enough oil. This is designed to allow more oil upstairs when using thicker oils.
Last edited by Havoc40; 12-02-2016 at 09:52 AM.
12-02-2016 | 09:50 AM
#99
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From: bel air, md
I have 25-40 psi pressure at isle and 25 being lowest ever after the longest hard run ever, under way I have 70-80 at all times... I get what your saying and yes I run the boat hard but I don't think I am having issues there, I could be wrong but don't see issues. Never did in past with any HR lifter before and I lost 1-2 lbs after changing lifters
I think the best thing for your application Tim is go with what Joe said. Pick a nice mild shelf cam maybe a Lunati Voodoo or something like that. Stick it in the motor and go boating.
I really don't mind the threads you start and actually look forward to them. So, even if you do decide to go mild keep the threads up. After all winter is here and I don't have sh!t to do.
12-02-2016 | 09:53 AM
#100
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From: Northport N.Y.
One thing I do when I get new lifters or rockers I take a pot fill it with oil and lifters or rockers and put it on a hot plate and heat it to 220* and let cool. Will suck all the oil into all the voids. Watch all the air come out as they get hot.
