Solid roller adjustments or check intervals?
12-03-2016 | 07:26 PM
#141
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Posts: 11,332
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From: chicago
Tim, in reference to my post #131, I played around with some dyno sims over a cup of coffee. First picture here, is your actual dyno sheet. Second, is the dyno simulator, with your build specs. Third and fourth, are with off the shelf crane cams, no other changes to the combo. We know what your cam specs are, and what your engines actually made. I put the cam specs in fairly comparable to what these guys claiming over 700HP on the other site are doing. Wow, would you believe, the dyno simulator also agrees with their claims. You sure you still need "smaller cams" in a N/A 540 looking to turn 6000rpm on the water?
And for the "torque is what spins the prop" crew, take a look at the torque output at 5500RPM. Which one you think will spin the bigger wheel?
And for the "torque is what spins the prop" crew, take a look at the torque output at 5500RPM. Which one you think will spin the bigger wheel?
Last edited by MILD THUNDER; 12-03-2016 at 08:24 PM.
12-03-2016 | 07:28 PM
#142
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,332
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From: chicago
What happened to isky's. Seems like for the longest time they were the chit. This might have been covered covered earlier if so my bad. Just got in. Or did I read a post Johnson is making isky's now? If I did choose to go hyd roller I'd want the very best without question.
Years ago I recall talking to a speed shop downstate and they said there is litterally very few companies that actually build lifters and just build to spec for all the companies. I know this holds true to a certain extent but can't verify what I was told but it makes sense.
Anyway did isky's go down hill? Just curious not making a claim.
Years ago I recall talking to a speed shop downstate and they said there is litterally very few companies that actually build lifters and just build to spec for all the companies. I know this holds true to a certain extent but can't verify what I was told but it makes sense.
Anyway did isky's go down hill? Just curious not making a claim.
12-03-2016 | 07:49 PM
#143
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,688
Likes: 216
From: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
Pretty sure my cams will be closer to them type of specs coming soon lol
Tim, here's some of the responses about your combo from guys on speedtalk. Those 540 combos, making 700 plus HP on pump gas, are not running anything remotely close, to a 241/246 camshaft.
Have a number of similar units out and running for some time now.
Dart S/D, 540", RHS 320's, Comp retro-hyd-roller, 9.75:1 C.R., 2527 Edel, and a 4500 Holley. Bolt-together build, absolutely no HP chasing at all!
All off the dyno at/above 730 HP @ 6200 and 700 Torque @ 4500. Have many of these still in service after 15 years or more, not a single problem to date an any!
These are tested without any accessories however.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. With a change to a solid-roller, some very minor head work, and 10.5/10.75:1 C.R., we see above 775 HP/725 Torque, very similar RPM band. The RHS heads flow 375/275 @ .700" from the boxes. Just tested some recent "brand-X" heads we took on for a line, and still see just above 700. The cost on these heads is about 1/2 price!
Here is a few that I have built for power boats. 540-548 bbc's, ported Iron eagle 308 heads, not radical porting, but detail work, chamber work, ex port work, the intake received attention thru the whole runner, about 320cc ish when done. 10:1, the Dart single plane that came on the boat originaly, on the mecruiser HP 500 502, Custom comp hydraulic roller, 252-260 at .050, .640 lift, 112 lobe sep. For numerous reasons. Did like 8-10 of those, either 540's or 548's out of the original 502 blocks. THey would make 715-730 hp, and about the same for tq, peaked about 5800 for hp, in the 4500ish for tq, depending on carbs used. And they rocked. Also built similar engines, but made them 509's, using the stock crank, they would make about 680hp and about 665 for tq, but, I would pull the duration back to 248-256,to keep the same rpm range.They would actualy go 6000-6200 for peak hp, same lobe family, so the lift was the same, and the same 112 lobe sep.
The interesting part, I did a pair of 540's, with basically all the same parts, except, used a set of iron Eagle 345's, instead. The idea was to eliminate any porting. Just blended the valve job top cut into the chamber, and blended the short turns. Those were down a solid 50hp and 50 ft/lbs over the ported 308 heads. Not suprising really, more air flow thru a smaller cross section, just works better in that rpm range. The 345's moved more above .700, but less below. The 345 iron eagle 540's made about the same power as the ported 308 iron eagle 509's. The 540/345 heads still made more tq, but not much.
The motor is crying for more duration and seeing as you already have 1.7 rockers Comp cams HUC lobes intake lobe 13064 and 13066 is what I would use with a 3 piece core ground on a 110lobe sep. The specs are 255 263 680 lift. Another cam I use cause its cheap like $240 from your local gm dealer and you can run melonited distributor gear is gm 572 cam . specs are 0.632-inch lift and 254/264 degrees of duration at 0.050, 112. On the gm cam use PAC-1371 spring it is a lightweight 1.374 dia 172 @ 1.900, 455 @ 1.250 cb is 1.2
In general on hyd rollers to remove weight at the valve I tend to use tool steel retainers and lightweight low mass small diameter springs like PSI CT1225 Dual 1.445 [email protected]" [email protected] 1.1cb or PSI CT1226 Dual 1.460" [email protected]" [email protected]" 1.15cb and above mentioned Pac. I always set .050-.100 from cb. Did the engine builder use a valve spring retainer mounted dial guage to minimize rocker sweep and optimize valve motion and pushrod length?
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47746
Have a number of similar units out and running for some time now.
Dart S/D, 540", RHS 320's, Comp retro-hyd-roller, 9.75:1 C.R., 2527 Edel, and a 4500 Holley. Bolt-together build, absolutely no HP chasing at all!
All off the dyno at/above 730 HP @ 6200 and 700 Torque @ 4500. Have many of these still in service after 15 years or more, not a single problem to date an any!
These are tested without any accessories however.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. With a change to a solid-roller, some very minor head work, and 10.5/10.75:1 C.R., we see above 775 HP/725 Torque, very similar RPM band. The RHS heads flow 375/275 @ .700" from the boxes. Just tested some recent "brand-X" heads we took on for a line, and still see just above 700. The cost on these heads is about 1/2 price!
Here is a few that I have built for power boats. 540-548 bbc's, ported Iron eagle 308 heads, not radical porting, but detail work, chamber work, ex port work, the intake received attention thru the whole runner, about 320cc ish when done. 10:1, the Dart single plane that came on the boat originaly, on the mecruiser HP 500 502, Custom comp hydraulic roller, 252-260 at .050, .640 lift, 112 lobe sep. For numerous reasons. Did like 8-10 of those, either 540's or 548's out of the original 502 blocks. THey would make 715-730 hp, and about the same for tq, peaked about 5800 for hp, in the 4500ish for tq, depending on carbs used. And they rocked. Also built similar engines, but made them 509's, using the stock crank, they would make about 680hp and about 665 for tq, but, I would pull the duration back to 248-256,to keep the same rpm range.They would actualy go 6000-6200 for peak hp, same lobe family, so the lift was the same, and the same 112 lobe sep.
The interesting part, I did a pair of 540's, with basically all the same parts, except, used a set of iron Eagle 345's, instead. The idea was to eliminate any porting. Just blended the valve job top cut into the chamber, and blended the short turns. Those were down a solid 50hp and 50 ft/lbs over the ported 308 heads. Not suprising really, more air flow thru a smaller cross section, just works better in that rpm range. The 345's moved more above .700, but less below. The 345 iron eagle 540's made about the same power as the ported 308 iron eagle 509's. The 540/345 heads still made more tq, but not much.
The motor is crying for more duration and seeing as you already have 1.7 rockers Comp cams HUC lobes intake lobe 13064 and 13066 is what I would use with a 3 piece core ground on a 110lobe sep. The specs are 255 263 680 lift. Another cam I use cause its cheap like $240 from your local gm dealer and you can run melonited distributor gear is gm 572 cam . specs are 0.632-inch lift and 254/264 degrees of duration at 0.050, 112. On the gm cam use PAC-1371 spring it is a lightweight 1.374 dia 172 @ 1.900, 455 @ 1.250 cb is 1.2
In general on hyd rollers to remove weight at the valve I tend to use tool steel retainers and lightweight low mass small diameter springs like PSI CT1225 Dual 1.445 [email protected]" [email protected] 1.1cb or PSI CT1226 Dual 1.460" [email protected]" [email protected]" 1.15cb and above mentioned Pac. I always set .050-.100 from cb. Did the engine builder use a valve spring retainer mounted dial guage to minimize rocker sweep and optimize valve motion and pushrod length?
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47746
12-03-2016 | 09:15 PM
#146
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,332
Likes: 73
From: chicago
I have ran with offshorexcursion a couple times. Once when i went up to visit Traverse city for labor day weekend trip, when he had just got unleashed in the water, and prior to that, on one of his fun runs. The weekend where he had unleashed out, first run of the day I was on board, we did some test running. 100 plus across the bay several times. The next day, we ran up the bay , and he was running pretty hard. Later that day we ran back, again he was gone, no way I was keeping up. We then ran side by side later that early evening, and again stayed along side me at 90ish, and walked away . First weekend out with the new engines installed.
At his fun run, when he had his procharged engines in his 33 baja, it was a 60 mile run. He started in the back of the pack, letting everyone go ahead. Its not easy to catch up to a bunch of boats running 75-80mph . He managed to keep that 33 baja running 90 plus for the majority of the 60 mile run.
I don't know if he runs his boat harder than everyone here, but I do know he doesn't baby them.
Icdedppl, I've boated with him alot. He's an animal. He's got a heavy old slug, and hes always firewalled, or dam close to it. His addiction to data, is hard on his engines and drives. He's always firewalled monitioring EGT's, AFR's, data logging, etc etc. Rough water? Yea, he's not slowing down for much. He was out every weekend from July 4, to october this summer. I don't think a weekend went by, where the tachs weren't at 6 grand. For a HVAC guy, who does all his own boat work, i'd say thats pretty decent. Some of the pro built boats with 900's , have a hard time making it thru a single event without an issue.
I think what offshorexcursion was trying to say, is the morel lifters can go the distance, and that theres alot of guys on oso, who make big claims , or talk about this and that, and have boats that don't run, engines that dont last more than a weekend, engines that have dyno time only, and so on. I have some friends with stock 500 mercs, and stuff like that, who like throwing out the amount of hours they boat in a season, compared to guys like icdedppl and i. Personally, for me, if i wanted to log tons of hours on the water, I'd buy a cruiser. I'm not about that. I put a bunch of miles on the car I drive to work everyday. Does that mean that if I had a 9 second camaro sitting in the garage, and only take it out once and a while, that I'm less of an enthusiast? What I do want, is when I do take my chit to the lake, is that I can run the engines/boat to the limit every time I'm out, and put it away without breaking something. Logging hours by cruising around at 3k rpm, and taking long idle trips down the river isn't my kind of boating.
At his fun run, when he had his procharged engines in his 33 baja, it was a 60 mile run. He started in the back of the pack, letting everyone go ahead. Its not easy to catch up to a bunch of boats running 75-80mph . He managed to keep that 33 baja running 90 plus for the majority of the 60 mile run.
I don't know if he runs his boat harder than everyone here, but I do know he doesn't baby them.
Icdedppl, I've boated with him alot. He's an animal. He's got a heavy old slug, and hes always firewalled, or dam close to it. His addiction to data, is hard on his engines and drives. He's always firewalled monitioring EGT's, AFR's, data logging, etc etc. Rough water? Yea, he's not slowing down for much. He was out every weekend from July 4, to october this summer. I don't think a weekend went by, where the tachs weren't at 6 grand. For a HVAC guy, who does all his own boat work, i'd say thats pretty decent. Some of the pro built boats with 900's , have a hard time making it thru a single event without an issue.
I think what offshorexcursion was trying to say, is the morel lifters can go the distance, and that theres alot of guys on oso, who make big claims , or talk about this and that, and have boats that don't run, engines that dont last more than a weekend, engines that have dyno time only, and so on. I have some friends with stock 500 mercs, and stuff like that, who like throwing out the amount of hours they boat in a season, compared to guys like icdedppl and i. Personally, for me, if i wanted to log tons of hours on the water, I'd buy a cruiser. I'm not about that. I put a bunch of miles on the car I drive to work everyday. Does that mean that if I had a 9 second camaro sitting in the garage, and only take it out once and a while, that I'm less of an enthusiast? What I do want, is when I do take my chit to the lake, is that I can run the engines/boat to the limit every time I'm out, and put it away without breaking something. Logging hours by cruising around at 3k rpm, and taking long idle trips down the river isn't my kind of boating.
12-03-2016 | 11:01 PM
#149
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,998
Likes: 127
From: Lees Summit ~ LOTO 10MM
I've logged plenty of hours at the bars at LOTO this year and I'm sure I run my bar tabs up harder than most...
Don't even get me started on the hours of unrelenting endurance my generator sees...
Don't even get me started on the hours of unrelenting endurance my generator sees...
12-04-2016 | 12:31 AM
#150
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,613
Likes: 375
From: Traverse City MI
WOW my bad guess my wording wasn't the best, no hard feelings intended sometimes I rush my posts, just passionate about this hobby :-) 
Only raced once in calm water and the LOTO shootout weekend was a BLAST. The entire atmosphere of the weekend, running 85-100+mph for over 140miles during the friday poker run, and even setting a new class record in the shootout, what a weekend! Never would have thought running down that calm course could be just as much fun as running hard through the LOTO slop. Not as big of water as we run in on the Great Lakes, but more "annoying" water, but that's another can of worms.....Love it all though as long as we're hammered down!
Were you at Boyne Thunder? It's one of our favorite poker runs, been attending for 9 yrs! The last two runs we took turns driving our friends 41 Velocity while Unleashed engines and paint were getting finished. So this year we invited his wife and him to ride with us. I always start in the back and work my way through the pack because we enjoy the challenge of running through the slop. Leaving the channel with our friend Bills 43 Punisher everyone had already turned around. Then we passed kemosabee 47' Apache who turned around before reaching the first card stop(I have it on Go Pro), at that point Bill turned around. We played a little while waiting for the channel to clear and saw no one run (heard about my friends running later during lunch). I personally don't enjoy playing with myself though;-) and we MOST DEFINITELY respect our passengers when they ask to turn around. Do you respect your passengers and keep them comfortable, and happy? Can you guess how many passengers we have invited for next years Poker Runs
Yeah and I had already nicely explained that your engines need more then just solid rollers to gain reliability, Here you go again being unappreciative of all the support OSO has given you.
Yes its a huge claim, trailer up and come run with us anytime bud.
Yeah I deserve that a little
again didn't mean it like that. Kristy and I are just super passionate about boating, and going fast. We have a cruiser for anchoring and going slow, so when running unleashed its 4500-6000rpm 85-110+ for 50-150 miles everytime out. We just enjoy running hard all day long!
LOL! I was 12 and just got my boater safety license. Mostly pulled my Dad skiing behind his 20' Checkmate (351 Ford) but always had to drop Mom and sis off at the end of the day for a 60mph speed run.
We have some cool videos of Mild Thunder running hard with us, and have enjoyed watching both ICDEDPPL and Full Force's videos. I'm sure there are some in this section that run hard, but there also are a lot of jokers that talk big with nothing to back it up. We not only run hard but we go long distance's, participate in poker runs, fun runs, and races, always starting from the back and running through the pack. Kristy's working hard on editing some more badazz videos with our tractor pipes screaming!
Tim stay hydraulic and focus on reliability, the 1mph your looking for will easily come from induction and exhaust upgrades without sacrificing valve train instability
Unleashed is run harder and longer then any boat participating in this tech section (with videos to prove), and my morel lifters have been flawless :-)
Unleashed is run harder and longer then any boat participating in this tech section (with videos to prove), and my morel lifters have been flawless :-)
Were you at Boyne Thunder? It's one of our favorite poker runs, been attending for 9 yrs! The last two runs we took turns driving our friends 41 Velocity while Unleashed engines and paint were getting finished. So this year we invited his wife and him to ride with us. I always start in the back and work my way through the pack because we enjoy the challenge of running through the slop. Leaving the channel with our friend Bills 43 Punisher everyone had already turned around. Then we passed kemosabee 47' Apache who turned around before reaching the first card stop(I have it on Go Pro), at that point Bill turned around. We played a little while waiting for the channel to clear and saw no one run (heard about my friends running later during lunch). I personally don't enjoy playing with myself though;-)
and we MOST DEFINITELY respect our passengers when they ask to turn around. Do you respect your passengers and keep them comfortable, and happy? Can you guess how many passengers we have invited for next years Poker Runs Yes its a huge claim, trailer up and come run with us anytime bud.
Yeah I deserve that a little
: again didn't mean it like that. Kristy and I are just super passionate about boating, and going fast. We have a cruiser for anchoring and going slow, so when running unleashed its 4500-6000rpm 85-110+ for 50-150 miles everytime out. We just enjoy running hard all day long!We have some cool videos of Mild Thunder running hard with us, and have enjoyed watching both ICDEDPPL and Full Force's videos. I'm sure there are some in this section that run hard, but there also are a lot of jokers that talk big with nothing to back it up. We not only run hard but we go long distance's, participate in poker runs, fun runs, and races, always starting from the back and running through the pack. Kristy's working hard on editing some more badazz videos with our tractor pipes screaming!
