Solid roller adjustments or check intervals?
12-01-2016, 04:29 PM
#31
Registered
Ice been following all of threads related to F.F. engines to both learn and occasionally laugh.
Last night I dreamed I found an axle from a lifter roller buried in my oil pan sludge !!!
We're headed to Mexico for a couple weeks, I need a break.
Last night I dreamed I found an axle from a lifter roller buried in my oil pan sludge !!!
We're headed to Mexico for a couple weeks, I need a break.
12-01-2016, 04:43 PM
#32
Registered
iTrader: (7)
personally feel once a year is plenty especially with the amount of hours your talking. My current marine builds are solid rollers on billet hyd roller with a tight lash. Those engines haven't seen any run time however ran same set up on other engines in the past with zero issues and only annual lash cks.
That's running hard 100 hrs + - . Not like the old days. Current solid roller in my 73 z sbc 434 has been through 3 transmissions since lash ck. I know Tim your most sane solution would be hydraulic however I've just had bad luck with chasing valvetrain issues that turned out to be hyd lifters. Cams I run don't like them or just bad luck. Not sure either way I never want to doubt what's going on under the valve covers.
Hardin marines won't slip under your exhaust with just sliding them back a little? Hp boat engines are maintenance plain and simple. I like to ride hard and have fun but I must admit I also have no problem wrenching a little or a lot. Basically whatever it takes to have a little edge and go fast.
That's running hard 100 hrs + - . Not like the old days. Current solid roller in my 73 z sbc 434 has been through 3 transmissions since lash ck. I know Tim your most sane solution would be hydraulic however I've just had bad luck with chasing valvetrain issues that turned out to be hyd lifters. Cams I run don't like them or just bad luck. Not sure either way I never want to doubt what's going on under the valve covers.
Hardin marines won't slip under your exhaust with just sliding them back a little? Hp boat engines are maintenance plain and simple. I like to ride hard and have fun but I must admit I also have no problem wrenching a little or a lot. Basically whatever it takes to have a little edge and go fast.
12-01-2016, 05:12 PM
#34
Registered
iTrader: (3)
Engine oil can be closely approximated as an uncompressible hydraulic fluid under laboratory conditions. However, in running engine conditions, oil aeration always occurs. On the high-pressure side of any self-adjusting hydraulic lifter system, the tiny air bubbles suspended in the oil can, and will, compress, resulting in effectively looser lash at high engine speed,” says Goodwin.
On roller lifters, the larger body diameter does not change the cam design limits, however, it can allow room for both a larger wheel diameter and then a larger bearing package or thicker wheel cross section. The larger wheel can allow for higher tappet acceleration. You may note in some of the most extreme NHRA Super Stock applications, a few of our designs can only be made to work with a 0.850-inch or larger follower wheel. While the differences are normally not as direct or easy to quantify on the roller side as it is with a flat, allowing a larger wheel diameter is a definite benefit in harshly-loaded racing applications
Adding more options to that product line, Comp is introducing Short Travel XD hydraulic roller lifters this year with an upgraded tool steel pushrod seat to withstand the harsh demands of even the most severe applications, including 24-hour endurance road racing and offshore marine competition applications.
Another piece of the lifter science that can’t be overlooked is the increase in lifter diameter. Larger lifter body diameters are required to accommodate larger roller diameters. A larger roller slows the speed of the roller and needles down and will increase the wall thickness between ID and OD, and will also reduce the pressure angle that the lifter will see.
“On flat tappet systems — both hydraulic and solid — the maximum allowable tappet velocity corresponds directly to the maximum tappet diameter,” says Goodwin. “For example, a 0.842-inch tappet will run off the edge when the velocity goes past 0.007-inch tappet lift per degree, perhaps a bit more depending on face chamfer and lifter bore alignment. For a 0.875-inch tappet you can get about 5 percent higher maximum tappet velocity, and a 0.900-inch lifter will allow about 8 percent more velocity higher than a 0.842-inch tappet. If you think about a speed limit on an expressway, that is somewhat how maximum velocity works in cam design. If the maximum velocity can be higher, then we can both achieve higher lift and/or more area under the curve.”
Good read
http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-st...rs-technology/
On roller lifters, the larger body diameter does not change the cam design limits, however, it can allow room for both a larger wheel diameter and then a larger bearing package or thicker wheel cross section. The larger wheel can allow for higher tappet acceleration. You may note in some of the most extreme NHRA Super Stock applications, a few of our designs can only be made to work with a 0.850-inch or larger follower wheel. While the differences are normally not as direct or easy to quantify on the roller side as it is with a flat, allowing a larger wheel diameter is a definite benefit in harshly-loaded racing applications
Adding more options to that product line, Comp is introducing Short Travel XD hydraulic roller lifters this year with an upgraded tool steel pushrod seat to withstand the harsh demands of even the most severe applications, including 24-hour endurance road racing and offshore marine competition applications.
Another piece of the lifter science that can’t be overlooked is the increase in lifter diameter. Larger lifter body diameters are required to accommodate larger roller diameters. A larger roller slows the speed of the roller and needles down and will increase the wall thickness between ID and OD, and will also reduce the pressure angle that the lifter will see.
“On flat tappet systems — both hydraulic and solid — the maximum allowable tappet velocity corresponds directly to the maximum tappet diameter,” says Goodwin. “For example, a 0.842-inch tappet will run off the edge when the velocity goes past 0.007-inch tappet lift per degree, perhaps a bit more depending on face chamfer and lifter bore alignment. For a 0.875-inch tappet you can get about 5 percent higher maximum tappet velocity, and a 0.900-inch lifter will allow about 8 percent more velocity higher than a 0.842-inch tappet. If you think about a speed limit on an expressway, that is somewhat how maximum velocity works in cam design. If the maximum velocity can be higher, then we can both achieve higher lift and/or more area under the curve.”
Good read
http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-st...rs-technology/
12-01-2016, 05:13 PM
#35
Registered
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12-01-2016, 05:52 PM
#38
Registered
iTrader: (3)
I agree with Mike Tkach Tim, as far as going with your guys suggestion. I will also add, alot of guys think .050 numbers, lsa, and lift, are the only things to consider when picking a cam out.
Lets just say, you're a guy, who wants a 260* duration lobe for your engine. Solid roller. Well, here's what you can pick from , just from ONE company's profiles. Now, thats ONE company. Throw in a few more companys, and your head will spin, as far as what is available. Just because a buddy ran a solid years back, and it was great, or horrible, doesn't apply to every solid roller. Hydraulics, are usually quite a bit less variances in design, although, lately, there have been quite a few lobe options for them as well. And same goes for them, not all are created equal. What works in one application, may destroy parts in another.
RX DRAG RACE INTAKE ROLLERS
The RX Drag Race Rollers are similar to the REV designs, except they have more lift and use sections of our
popular RX ramp. These designs have proven to provide an outstanding combination of high rpm power and
stability while not sacrificing torque. Excellent in applications from high end bracket engines to Comp Eliminator
and Pro Stock
HXL SERIES ROLLERS
The HXL Series rollers are intended for high lift applications that require maximum torque and extended rpm. These
fall somewhere in between the RX and TK Series in terms of aggressiveness but provide more lobe lift. They are
closest to the High Torque .440" lobes but have incorporated our latest profile advancements that should allow
higher engine speeds and improved dynamics.
HI-TORQUE .440" ROLLERS
These designs are very aggressive and can be used with a variety of rocker ratios. Smaller designs work well in oval
track motors and larger designs work in drag racing applications. The Hi-Torque .440” designs are stable to
8200+ rpm.
HI-TECH™ .440" INTAKE ROLLERS
These lobes are to be used in medium to large cubic inch engines. The Hi-Tech™.440” are designed with portedcylinder heads in mind and are easy on springs. These designs are very stable at high engine speeds.
TK LIFT RULE ROLLERS
These low lift designs are based on the TK Series rollers and are specifically designed for lift rule applications, such
as Hooters Cup. Typically they will be used with 1.8:1 ratios
TK SERIES ROLLERS
The TK Series is our most aggressive standard rocker ratio series to date. These designs get from .020" to .050"
tappet lift and back from .050" to .020" tappet lift in only 28 ̊. That quickness makes this series the most intense
roller profiles COMP has ever released, providing more duration at .200" and more area than comparable profiles.
Excellent for all out Sprint Car and Late Model applications.
RC SERIES ROLLERS
The RC Rollers are designed to be faster off the seat than the RT profiles with more area than the Hi-Torque
.440" profiles. These are slightly less aggressive than the TK profiles. Very good for Sprint Car and Late Model
applications
SP SERIES ROLLERS
The SP Rollers are a high ratio roller series for restricted applications limited to below 8200 rpm. These lobes are
more aggressive than the RP Series and can be used successfully with lower rocker ratios. For use with 1.7 to
1.9:1 rocker ratios. Also used in some hydraulic roller applications
HIGH RATIO RESTRICTED ROLLERS
The HRR designs, when coupled with high rocker ratios, result in extremely quick valve action. 8100 rpm maximum
with light valve train. Very good in restricted applications.
D, TJ & TJS SERIES ROLLERS
The TD designs are excellent for high ratio, four barrel 390 carb rules such as NASCAR Busch and Craftsman Truck
Series applications. The TJ's have slightly more lift but are a little smoother. The TJS's are basically the same as
the TJ's except for a slightly softer closing ramp.
ZS SERIES ROLLERS
The ZS Rollers are a high ratio roller series for restricted applications limited to below 8400 rpm. These are very
good for applications that benefit from higher lift than the HRR series. These profiles work well with the new
generation valve springs such as COMP's #26099 and #26091. The ZS Series II are the same as the .413" lobe
lift versions except these have increasing lobe lift as the duration increases
ZT SERIES ROLLERS
The ZT rollers are a new high rocker ratio, high rpm Series designed to take advantage of new valve spring develop-
ments that allow valve lifts up to and above .750" in endurance applications. These are designed for NASCAR Busch,
Craftsman Truck, ARCA and other endurance applications that have similar rpm and lift requirements.
Recommended for use with either COMP's #26099 or #26091 springs.
CR LIFT RULE ROLLERS
These low lift designs are based on the CR Series rollers and are specifically designed for lift rule application, such
as Hooters Cup. Typically they will be used with either 1.65:1 or 1.7:1 rocker ratios but would be stable with up
to 1.8:1 ratios.
CR SERIES ROLLERS
The CR Series profiles are excellent for high rpm, high rocker ratio applications where good valve train components
can be used. The smaller profiles work well in restricted applications where extended life is required and the
larger profiles are excellent in high rpm open applications.
RX SERIES ROLLERS
These are similar to our RT Series but are designed for a higher rpm operating range. These were developed to
allow the performance of RT designs in applications that operate well over 8400 rpm, such as the NASCAR Busch,
Craftsman Truck Series and ARCA engines. RX profiles were developed using dynamic testing to ensure stability
over 9000 rpm, even when coupled with a 1.7:1 rocker arm.
RZ LOW LIFT ROLLERS
These lower lift versions of the RZ family work very well in high endurance applications where maximum valve lift
needs to be limited to ensure maximum valve spring life
RZ SERIES ROLLERS
The RZ Rollers are designed for high rpm circle track, drag race and endurance applications that benefit from
higher lift while requiring stability and reliability. Designed for 1.6:1 to 1.8:1 rockers, these profiles incorporate the
latest developments in high rpm and high rocker ratio developments
NC SERIES ROLLERS
Designed with aggressive opening side of the RT Series lobe and the easier closing rate of the ever popular Hi-Tech™-5 Series, the NC Series allows good engine speed, stability and durability. This fast open, slower closing designworks very well on the exhaust side of many applications
RT SERIES ROLLERS
The RT Series provides shorter seat timing and more area than our Hi-Tech™.420" Series. This results in great torque and power potential. Available in Ford Small Block and Chevy Big Block or 50mm sizes to prevent “camgrowth” in the grinding process,allowing theengine builder to have more control over the tuning process of the cam
HI-TECH™ .420" ROLLERS
The Hi-Tech™.420” is primarily used in oval track racing with good cylinder heads. The ramp designs are easy on
valve springs yet produce good power. They are great for long rod motors. They are also popular in bracket and
marine applications where power with durability is a must. Also available in Ford Small Block and Chevy Big Block
or 50mm sizes to prevent “cam growth” in the grinding process, allowing the engine builder to have more control
over the tuning process.
HI-TECH™ .420" EXHAUST ROLLERS
These designs are used primarily on the exhaust side of the motor. The Hi-Tech™420“ offers controlled valveopening, which promotes torque over broad ranges. These lobes are great for oval track cams
HI-TORQUE .406" ROLLERS
The Hi-Torque .406” , when coupled with higher rocker ratios (1.7 and up), results in very aggressive valve motion.
These provide excellent torque curves and great responsiveness. The smaller lobes are great for restricted
applications, and the larger lobes provide stronger alternatives to the Hi-Torque .440" profiles when coupled with
higher rocker ratios to achieve equivalent valve lift.
HI-TECH™ ROLLERS
These designs are typically used with high rocker ratios (1.65-1.75) and efficient cylinder heads. The Hi-Tech
™.400”is great for Big Block Chevrolets, Big Block Fords and Clevelands. Due to their lower acceleration rates, these lobe
designs are also very well suited for small block high endurance applications
BASE DESIGN ROLLERS
The culmination of extensive design and research, these lobes range from extra gentle to very aggressive. Included
in this group are the High Torque Roller and High Torque Oval Roller Series used in the early 80’s.
HIGH ENERGY™ STREET ROLLER
Designed specifically for street use, these street rollers offer unique approach ramps, allowing the use of lower seat
pressure to assure long life. These lobes are very "throaty" because of the opening and closing ramp
designs
Lets just say, you're a guy, who wants a 260* duration lobe for your engine. Solid roller. Well, here's what you can pick from , just from ONE company's profiles. Now, thats ONE company. Throw in a few more companys, and your head will spin, as far as what is available. Just because a buddy ran a solid years back, and it was great, or horrible, doesn't apply to every solid roller. Hydraulics, are usually quite a bit less variances in design, although, lately, there have been quite a few lobe options for them as well. And same goes for them, not all are created equal. What works in one application, may destroy parts in another.
RX DRAG RACE INTAKE ROLLERS
The RX Drag Race Rollers are similar to the REV designs, except they have more lift and use sections of our
popular RX ramp. These designs have proven to provide an outstanding combination of high rpm power and
stability while not sacrificing torque. Excellent in applications from high end bracket engines to Comp Eliminator
and Pro Stock
HXL SERIES ROLLERS
The HXL Series rollers are intended for high lift applications that require maximum torque and extended rpm. These
fall somewhere in between the RX and TK Series in terms of aggressiveness but provide more lobe lift. They are
closest to the High Torque .440" lobes but have incorporated our latest profile advancements that should allow
higher engine speeds and improved dynamics.
HI-TORQUE .440" ROLLERS
These designs are very aggressive and can be used with a variety of rocker ratios. Smaller designs work well in oval
track motors and larger designs work in drag racing applications. The Hi-Torque .440” designs are stable to
8200+ rpm.
HI-TECH™ .440" INTAKE ROLLERS
These lobes are to be used in medium to large cubic inch engines. The Hi-Tech™.440” are designed with portedcylinder heads in mind and are easy on springs. These designs are very stable at high engine speeds.
TK LIFT RULE ROLLERS
These low lift designs are based on the TK Series rollers and are specifically designed for lift rule applications, such
as Hooters Cup. Typically they will be used with 1.8:1 ratios
TK SERIES ROLLERS
The TK Series is our most aggressive standard rocker ratio series to date. These designs get from .020" to .050"
tappet lift and back from .050" to .020" tappet lift in only 28 ̊. That quickness makes this series the most intense
roller profiles COMP has ever released, providing more duration at .200" and more area than comparable profiles.
Excellent for all out Sprint Car and Late Model applications.
RC SERIES ROLLERS
The RC Rollers are designed to be faster off the seat than the RT profiles with more area than the Hi-Torque
.440" profiles. These are slightly less aggressive than the TK profiles. Very good for Sprint Car and Late Model
applications
SP SERIES ROLLERS
The SP Rollers are a high ratio roller series for restricted applications limited to below 8200 rpm. These lobes are
more aggressive than the RP Series and can be used successfully with lower rocker ratios. For use with 1.7 to
1.9:1 rocker ratios. Also used in some hydraulic roller applications
HIGH RATIO RESTRICTED ROLLERS
The HRR designs, when coupled with high rocker ratios, result in extremely quick valve action. 8100 rpm maximum
with light valve train. Very good in restricted applications.
D, TJ & TJS SERIES ROLLERS
The TD designs are excellent for high ratio, four barrel 390 carb rules such as NASCAR Busch and Craftsman Truck
Series applications. The TJ's have slightly more lift but are a little smoother. The TJS's are basically the same as
the TJ's except for a slightly softer closing ramp.
ZS SERIES ROLLERS
The ZS Rollers are a high ratio roller series for restricted applications limited to below 8400 rpm. These are very
good for applications that benefit from higher lift than the HRR series. These profiles work well with the new
generation valve springs such as COMP's #26099 and #26091. The ZS Series II are the same as the .413" lobe
lift versions except these have increasing lobe lift as the duration increases
ZT SERIES ROLLERS
The ZT rollers are a new high rocker ratio, high rpm Series designed to take advantage of new valve spring develop-
ments that allow valve lifts up to and above .750" in endurance applications. These are designed for NASCAR Busch,
Craftsman Truck, ARCA and other endurance applications that have similar rpm and lift requirements.
Recommended for use with either COMP's #26099 or #26091 springs.
CR LIFT RULE ROLLERS
These low lift designs are based on the CR Series rollers and are specifically designed for lift rule application, such
as Hooters Cup. Typically they will be used with either 1.65:1 or 1.7:1 rocker ratios but would be stable with up
to 1.8:1 ratios.
CR SERIES ROLLERS
The CR Series profiles are excellent for high rpm, high rocker ratio applications where good valve train components
can be used. The smaller profiles work well in restricted applications where extended life is required and the
larger profiles are excellent in high rpm open applications.
RX SERIES ROLLERS
These are similar to our RT Series but are designed for a higher rpm operating range. These were developed to
allow the performance of RT designs in applications that operate well over 8400 rpm, such as the NASCAR Busch,
Craftsman Truck Series and ARCA engines. RX profiles were developed using dynamic testing to ensure stability
over 9000 rpm, even when coupled with a 1.7:1 rocker arm.
RZ LOW LIFT ROLLERS
These lower lift versions of the RZ family work very well in high endurance applications where maximum valve lift
needs to be limited to ensure maximum valve spring life
RZ SERIES ROLLERS
The RZ Rollers are designed for high rpm circle track, drag race and endurance applications that benefit from
higher lift while requiring stability and reliability. Designed for 1.6:1 to 1.8:1 rockers, these profiles incorporate the
latest developments in high rpm and high rocker ratio developments
NC SERIES ROLLERS
Designed with aggressive opening side of the RT Series lobe and the easier closing rate of the ever popular Hi-Tech™-5 Series, the NC Series allows good engine speed, stability and durability. This fast open, slower closing designworks very well on the exhaust side of many applications
RT SERIES ROLLERS
The RT Series provides shorter seat timing and more area than our Hi-Tech™.420" Series. This results in great torque and power potential. Available in Ford Small Block and Chevy Big Block or 50mm sizes to prevent “camgrowth” in the grinding process,allowing theengine builder to have more control over the tuning process of the cam
HI-TECH™ .420" ROLLERS
The Hi-Tech™.420” is primarily used in oval track racing with good cylinder heads. The ramp designs are easy on
valve springs yet produce good power. They are great for long rod motors. They are also popular in bracket and
marine applications where power with durability is a must. Also available in Ford Small Block and Chevy Big Block
or 50mm sizes to prevent “cam growth” in the grinding process, allowing the engine builder to have more control
over the tuning process.
HI-TECH™ .420" EXHAUST ROLLERS
These designs are used primarily on the exhaust side of the motor. The Hi-Tech™420“ offers controlled valveopening, which promotes torque over broad ranges. These lobes are great for oval track cams
HI-TORQUE .406" ROLLERS
The Hi-Torque .406” , when coupled with higher rocker ratios (1.7 and up), results in very aggressive valve motion.
These provide excellent torque curves and great responsiveness. The smaller lobes are great for restricted
applications, and the larger lobes provide stronger alternatives to the Hi-Torque .440" profiles when coupled with
higher rocker ratios to achieve equivalent valve lift.
HI-TECH™ ROLLERS
These designs are typically used with high rocker ratios (1.65-1.75) and efficient cylinder heads. The Hi-Tech
™.400”is great for Big Block Chevrolets, Big Block Fords and Clevelands. Due to their lower acceleration rates, these lobe
designs are also very well suited for small block high endurance applications
BASE DESIGN ROLLERS
The culmination of extensive design and research, these lobes range from extra gentle to very aggressive. Included
in this group are the High Torque Roller and High Torque Oval Roller Series used in the early 80’s.
HIGH ENERGY™ STREET ROLLER
Designed specifically for street use, these street rollers offer unique approach ramps, allowing the use of lower seat
pressure to assure long life. These lobes are very "throaty" because of the opening and closing ramp
designs
12-01-2016, 06:04 PM
#39
Registered
iTrader: (3)
One company, offering two dozen lobe designs, even though they all share the same .050 duration for the most part. And you can get them ground, on whatever LSA, ICL, and lifter wheel diameter, etc, that you choose. Out of those two dozen lobe families, which one will be the best for a Big Block Chevy, in a marine, pleasure , endurance engine. Once you decide on a lobe design, now you need to figure out what intake duration, what exhaust duration, what LSA, what lifter wheel you are using, and what ICL you want.
The hardest part of all of this "custom" engine stuff, is finding out what "custom" parts, have actually worked. Unless you copy an exact engine package from an engine you have known to work and go the distance, to a T, then the rest is an educated guess. How far are you willing to educate yourself, to make that guess, is the question. once you start playing with custom, and various sources and suppliers, at the end of the day, we are nothing but guinea pigs for their products and ideas.
The hardest part of all of this "custom" engine stuff, is finding out what "custom" parts, have actually worked. Unless you copy an exact engine package from an engine you have known to work and go the distance, to a T, then the rest is an educated guess. How far are you willing to educate yourself, to make that guess, is the question. once you start playing with custom, and various sources and suppliers, at the end of the day, we are nothing but guinea pigs for their products and ideas.
