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https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...d9d9b5c4d.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...592d842a5.jpeg Crude intentions 502. He asked me to post his sheet, his wifi is slow out at sea |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685271)
I dont think anyones against him. But if we're talkin shop, lets talk shop. He's made about two dozen claims in this thread, that are simply untrue. Things like his engines are going to run circles around a 525 merc, use way less fuel, his single pattern cam will make more torque than a dual pattern, and so on. Why not just start a thread, list the parts combo, and post the results. No need to speculate, bash big blocks, and make false statements...I mean, he claims his engines are so super efficient, yet no fuel flow data posted nor gathered on the dyno runs, and the BSFC numbers were nothing a decently built big block cant achieve
The LS engines been out for OVER TWENTY YEARS!! Its time guys stop acting like they defy the laws of physics. Sure they are a nice platform, but good lord, they arent magic. They are a friggen pushrod two valve V8. lol |
fwiw, crude intentions engine was dynoed in full marine trim, wet exhaust, all accessories, sea pump, etc. Not stripped down with race car headers , etc. Theres some parasitic loss there, which also affects bsfc numbers. A fully dressed marine engine, like how mercury dynoes them, will never see the fantasy brake specifics, esp the forced induction engines.
You didnt dyno with marine wet exhaust, sea pump, circulating pump , etc, MGG? I dont recall |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685273)
What do you think it cost two build two NEW big block marine engines? He has brand new blocks, cranks, rods, heads, cams, carbs, the whole shot, for around 10k per engine. What do you think, you can do it for 3500 per engine?
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Originally Posted by mggdoors
(Post 4685277)
You know what is really boils down to I built it. I stated it. I missed my mark. I still posted it knowing I would get ****. Ran it again made some gains. Missed. Still posted. The point is I had the balls to do it. I gave it a shot. I showed the public exact results with stock ls3 heads. Ive never been anti big block I had them. Been there. Done that. No hatred. Just trying something different. We are all boaters here. What or who am I hurting by posting some data. Im not the guy who beats up or bad mouths people on here. I try to inspire them. I owned up to my end. I always will. Btw I really would call my engines built but you choose what they are. |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685278)
fwiw, crude intentions engine was dynoed in full marine trim, wet exhaust, all accessories, sea pump, etc. Not stripped down with race car headers , etc. Theres some parasitic loss there, which also affects bsfc numbers. A fully dressed marine engine, like how mercury dynoes them, will never see the fantasy brake specifics, esp the forced induction engines.
You didnt dyno with marine wet exhaust, sea pump, circulating pump , etc, MGG? I dont recall |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685280)
Im glad you shared your results. Especially the cam comparison. Aside from all the nonsense and bickering, theres something to be learned there.
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Originally Posted by mggdoors
(Post 4685281)
dyno with everything but wet exhaust. Blew up crank water pump on the dyno as a matter of fact. Figured it was more important to me to get egt data for tuning |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685283)
Sea pump? I have no data on this, but I think out of all the accessories, (steering, alternator, circulating pump), the sea pump robs the most power. I thought I remember reading here something like 15-20hp just to turn the sea pump, idk .
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Originally Posted by mggdoors
(Post 4685279)
Just sayin. He made it sound like a pretty much stock motor with ported heads. This is exactly why I prefer conversation face to face. Too much misinterpretation for the record I’m a fan of the LS platform and think you made great power for what an LS is. I only take issue with the claim it would make a 525 look like a fool through the whole powerband and I don’t see where you beat the 525 at all. You make peak power a little higher but a fraction of the torque. This is no ball busting on the LS or what power it made just against the claims made. You also mention there aren’t many LS powered stern drive boats yet claim they’re cheaper and better. If that were the case don’t you think there would be more than 20 of them? |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685283)
Sea pump? I have no data on this, but I think out of all the accessories, (steering, alternator, circulating pump), the sea pump robs the most power. I thought I remember reading here something like 15-20hp just to turn the sea pump, idk .
P = Q x H x g x 0,4 (Kw) p.s Under name Volvo Penta it is a lot of LS3 marine engines. Not wery sttrong, but @ 430 hp made more prop torque like BBC HO. |
Originally Posted by Crude Intentions
(Post 4685291)
sorry for the delay. Offshore internet is being extra ****ty. These are stock GM 502s. They have cams and box stock EQ iron heads. 8.7:1 compression which also contributes to the bsfcs being higher than normal. The plan is for blowers but still scared to pop the bravos. That dyno number is with wet exhaust and not even a set of long tubes like the 525. These cams desperately want longer runners. I’m too poor for that. Lol for the record I’m a fan of the LS platform and think you made great power for what an LS is. I only take issue with the claim it would make a 525 look like a fool through the whole powerband and I don’t see where you beat the 525 at all. You make peak power a little higher but a fraction of the torque. This is no ball busting on the LS or what power it made just against the claims made. You also mention there aren’t many LS powered stern drive boats yet claim they’re cheaper and better. If that were the case don’t you think there would be more than 20 of them? Are you running the eq 320? Thats what I ran on the blower motors. Good heads but heaaaavvvvyyy |
Originally Posted by plavutka
(Post 4685293)
Hard to belive. Perhaps 2 hp or less.
P = Q x H x g x 0,4 (Kw) p.s Under name Volvo Penta it is a lot of LS3 marine engines. Not wery sttrong, but @ 430 hp made more prop torque like BBC HO. |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685271)
I dont think anyones against him. But if we're talkin shop, lets talk shop. He's made about two dozen claims in this thread, that are simply untrue. Things like his engines are going to run circles around a 525 merc, use way less fuel, his single pattern cam will make more torque than a dual pattern, and so on
|
Yes EQ 320s. Trust me I want nothing to do with XRs. So far my combo has lived for 70hours. I do engines and drives every 25 hrs. |
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
(Post 4685239)
Im surprised the twin LS package would be 1,000 lbs less than a 525efi engine. The ls engine is 500lbs lighter than the 525efi?
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Originally Posted by Hot Rod 29
(Post 4685337)
i weighed my mpi gen+ 350’s vs my new LS3’s and I’m saving nearly 400 lb each. That’s SBC vs LS. |
DynoTorque Compares
Here's a torque comparison of the 4 dyno sheets in this thread.....
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9c4e62ac2.jpeg |
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...de7f1b6768.jpg
Here is a 454..basic 525 sc clone, 8.5:1, AK alum heads, 731 cam... Without doing a lot of number crunching, it was a pretty budget friendly build |
Originally Posted by 242LS
(Post 4685385)
Here's a torque comparison of the 4 dyno sheets in this thread.....
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9c4e62ac2.jpeg |
Originally Posted by bck
(Post 4685388)
What magic is this? I'd like to do this.
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These are starting to show up more in some I/O apps but are expensive. Drop in ready price shipped to your door with CMI e-top type headers are 24k. The nice thing about them is the service life. The Air boat guys have been using them and beating the **** out of them. Seems the top ends last about 1300-1500 hours and then close to 2800-3000 is rebuild time. LSA 6.2L 556HP V8 Marine Power USA https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...353be6e715.png |
Nice! I was hoping someone would pick up that line of LS marine engines. Indmar was marketing them six or seen years ago but when i talked to them about re powering the Batboat race fleet they were in the beginning process of switching their line over to Fords Coyote platform. Wonder how their pricing is, when i talked to them a drop in ready version of the CTS-V engine was in the high teens with rshaust . . . and a warranty in the race boats . . . thought that was pretty good :cool:
Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 4685412)
These are starting to show up more in some I/O apps but are expensive. Drop in ready price shipped to your door with CMI e-top type headers are 24k. The nice thing about them is the service life. The Air boat guys have been using them and beating the **** out of them. Seems the top ends last about 1300-1500 hours and then close to 2800-3000 is rebuild time. LSA 6.2L 556HP V8 Marine Power USA https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...353be6e715.png |
I wonder if that's a standard automotive crate motor with marine accessories bolted on ? Looks like the crate motor sells for a little over 12k without electronics.
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GM powertrain has been offering that motor for marine use for years...
https://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines...et.pdf?v=2&v=2 |
Originally Posted by phragle
(Post 4685434)
GM powertrain has been offering that motor for marine use for years...
https://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines...et.pdf?v=2&v=2 I was told marine power will be coming out with the LT4 SC direct injected version soon. The guy I talked with said GM is doing the cert testing for them this summer. Should be around 650ish HP but they want $24,000 for the 550, hate to see how much the LT4 would be. Another question is what kind of buss system to they have. |
Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 4685440)
but they want $24,000 for the 550, hate to see how much the LT4 would be.. And how much is a 550 hp motor from merc ???? lol |
Originally Posted by phragle
(Post 4685445)
And how much is a 550 hp motor from merc ???? lol
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6 inches is a LOT of room............ May not sound like it, but it is....
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Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 4685440)
correct but they have a marine version and a car version. I haven’t been able to find out the difference other then valves. The one thing I haven’t checked is if you can purchase the marine version from a GM performance dealer. I was told marine power will be coming out with the LT4 SC direct injected version soon. The guy I talked with said GM is doing the cert testing for them this summer. Should be around 650ish HP but they want $24,000 for the 550, hate to see how much the LT4 would be. Another question is what kind of buss system to they have. https://www.schwartzperformance.com/...en-5-19368622/ |
The big advantage is truly the new ls engines lt series gen 5 (newer than mine) with the direct injection and variable cam timing. Would need to upgrade fuel system and use a standalone but more torque and hp everywhere than mine. No carb option though. One of you asked about the internals on the crate engines. I actually spoke to marine power about there line of engine when ordering exhaust and they are stock crate engines with inconel exhaust. Plus all the fancy brackets and so on. Nothing special. Keep an eye out on the new l8t 6.6l coming out in the new silverados. That will be my next project build when I get hand on a couple but need to wait for them to come out and get totalled first. The heads on the new gen engines are amazing. I urge you to look at the l96 vs the l8t comparison for tq vs hp. The vvt definitley makes a nice difference with a much smaller cam needed. |
Originally Posted by bck
(Post 4685388)
What magic is this? I'd like to do this.
|
Originally Posted by phragle
(Post 4685387)
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...de7f1b6768.jpg
Here is a 454..basic 525 sc clone, 8.5:1, AK alum heads, 731 cam... Without doing a lot of number crunching, it was a pretty budget friendly build |
Originally Posted by mggdoors
(Post 4685543)
And this is why I questioned dyno accuracy when comparing my run to the 525sc that was run. The 525sc sheet I posted was well below those numbers with the same cam. But to be fair I have no clue to what heads where on it |
Originally Posted by 242LS
(Post 4685385)
Here's a torque comparison of the 4 dyno sheets in this thread.....
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9c4e62ac2.jpeg |
Originally Posted by phragle
(Post 4685549)
I stated what heads...AK Racing....
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Originally Posted by sutphen 30
(Post 4685487)
here you go,,time to order up 2.:D have to add about 2200 for the electronics.
https://www.schwartzperformance.com/...en-5-19368622/ |
Originally Posted by bck
(Post 4685388)
What magic is this? I'd like to do this.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...2e31cb04d6.png |
That looks like connect the dots lol. |
Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 4685593)
"Not intended for marine applications". I wonder is the exhaust valves the only thing they change when they make it "Marine" .
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