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ezstriper 06-05-2019 06:20 AM

good luck on your water test ! been messing with LS stuff for long time, currant build twin turbo 6.0 in 19 eliminator Daytona jet. I have talked with others doing LS swaps and many have had revision issues, some engines with very little cam seem to, I think you may be into issues with those exhaust(hope I'm wrong) but running dry to the tips may be only way on many of these engines...

mggdoors 06-05-2019 10:56 AM


Originally Posted by ezstriper (Post 4690139)
good luck on your water test ! been messing with LS stuff for long time, currant build twin turbo 6.0 in 19 eliminator Daytona jet. I have talked with others doing LS swaps and many have had revision issues, some engines with very little cam seem to, I think you may be into issues with those exhaust(hope I'm wrong) but running dry to the tips may be only way on many of these engines...

When we initially built these and checked them I pulled all 4 risers and seen puddles of water in the manifolds on 3rd cylinder back on both banks. Now I see no water puddles, dampness, but do see droplets in the risers. Im sure some is sneaking by. I believe the reversion has to do with the firing order being that the 2-3 and 4-7 are swapped. Almost makes me want to order a custom ground cam in standard chevy firing order and just swap wires to correct coils and give it a test. Still possible being carbed.

SB 06-05-2019 11:20 AM

Y pipe it and introduce the water right after the y. double your exhaust pulses, :)

mggdoors 06-05-2019 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by SB (Post 4690215)
Y pipe it and introduce the water right after the y. double your exhaust pulses, :)

Like a 2-1?

mggdoors 06-06-2019 02:57 AM

Look what I found. Harris Marine - new zealand. Full aluminum jacketed headers for 1600 usd. Hmmmmhttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b7819c0d1.jpeg

mggdoors 06-06-2019 02:59 AM


corey331 06-06-2019 06:12 AM

Bad thing about those is, I don't see how you would be able to make them dry. Like ezstriper said, almost every successful LS swap I have come across that has any kind of cam at all has dry exhaust.

SB, I really like your idea of 2-into-1 exhaust, if for no other reason than it would sound nasty!!!!

Wildman_grafix 06-06-2019 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by mggdoors (Post 4690360)
Look what I found. Harris Marine - new zealand. Full aluminum jacketed headers for 1600 usd. Hmmmmhttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b7819c0d1.jpeg

Those are interesting, they make anything for BBC?

Wasted Income 06-06-2019 02:40 PM

I have two things to add to this thread
1:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...02e8a5e02e.jpg

2: LS vs BBC weights

A couple years ago a buddy weighed several shortblocks for fun.
Same day, same scale

LS1 = 180 lbs
LC9 = 200 lbs
LY6 = 310 lbs
393 stroker LS = 310 lbs
540 BBC dart iron block = 360 lbs

mggdoors 06-06-2019 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by Wasted Income (Post 4690473)
I have two things to add to this thread
1:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...02e8a5e02e.jpg

2: LS vs BBC weights

A couple years ago a buddy weighed several shortblocks for fun.
Same day, same scale

LS1 = 180 lbs
LC9 = 200 lbs
LY6 = 310 lbs
393 stroker LS = 310 lbs
540 BBC dart iron block = 360 lbs

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b5c595f2b.jpeg

corey331 06-07-2019 06:19 AM


Originally Posted by Wasted Income (Post 4690473)
I have two things to add to this thread
1:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...02e8a5e02e.jpg

2: LS vs BBC weights

A couple years ago a buddy weighed several shortblocks for fun.
Same day, same scale

LS1 = 180 lbs
LC9 = 200 lbs
LY6 = 310 lbs
393 stroker LS = 310 lbs
540 BBC dart iron block = 360 lbs



Well, I also pulled the BBC out of my boat on a farm scale and it weighed in a little over 1180 lbs fully dressed. I then dropped my 408ci LS back into the same boat, on the same scale, and it weighed in at 540 lbs fully dressed. I then changed to an iron block, which added 96 lbs to the engine Bringing it in at roughly 640 lbs fully dressed. That's a weight savings of roughly 540 lbs over the big block. Anybody that tries to say that there isn't a significant weight savings going LS is very misinformed.

Wildman_grafix 06-07-2019 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by corey331 (Post 4690581)
Well, I also pulled the BBC out of my boat on a farm scale and it weighed in a little over 1180 lbs fully dressed. I then dropped my 408ci LS back into the same boat, on the same scale, and it weighed in at 540 lbs fully dressed. I then changed to an iron block, which added 96 lbs to the engine Bringing it in at roughly 640 lbs fully dressed. That's a weight savings of roughly 540 lbs over the big block. Anybody that tries to say that there isn't a significant weight savings going LS is very misinformed.

That is huge, how much better did the boat perform and ride? Where do you boat?

corey331 06-07-2019 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4690582)
That is huge, how much better did the boat perform and ride? Where do you boat?

I was actually surprised at how much better the boat handled, especially in rougher waters. With the aluminum block, the boat was a little out of balance, but the extra 96 lbs of the iron block made it just right. I boat at Lake Cumberland in Kentucky. I know that doesn't get as rough as most places, but on a busy weekend in front of State Dock/Jamestown it turns into a washing machine that can beat you up pretty bad. With the LS I can set it at 45-50mph and it just bounces easily from wave to wave. It stays up on top of the waves with the light weight motor, where it would want to go down and plow through them with the BBC. As far as performance goes, I have seen a best of 77mph GPS, that was with not a lot in the boat and not much fuel. In everyday trim it will run 74-75mph GPS with a 24p Bravo. I still need to do some playing with props as I'm seeing those speeds at 5500-5700 rpms. I want to get it up to 6000-6100 where the engine makes peak power. Then engine made 577hp 530ftlbs and is in a 253 Checkmate Convincor. For what is a non-radical N/A small block in that size boat, I'm really happy. And even though it's carb'd, it sips fuel, and the sound it makes is amazing!!!!!

Wildman_grafix 06-07-2019 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by corey331 (Post 4690623)
I was actually surprised at how much better the boat handled, especially in rougher waters. With the aluminum block, the boat was a little out of balance, but the extra 96 lbs of the iron block made it just right. I boat at Lake Cumberland in Kentucky. I know that doesn't get as rough as most places, but on a busy weekend in front of State Dock/Jamestown it turns into a washing machine that can beat you up pretty bad. With the LS I can set it at 45-50mph and it just bounces easily from wave to wave. It stays up on top of the waves with the light weight motor, where it would want to go down and plow through them with the BBC. As far as performance goes, I have seen a best of 77mph GPS, that was with not a lot in the boat and not much fuel. In everyday trim it will run 74-75mph GPS with a 24p Bravo. I still need to do some playing with props as I'm seeing those speeds at 5500-5700 rpms. I want to get it up to 6000-6100 where the engine makes peak power. Then engine made 577hp 530ftlbs and is in a 253 Checkmate Convincor. For what is a non-radical N/A small block in that size boat, I'm really happy. And even though it's carb'd, it sips fuel, and the sound it makes is amazing!!!!!

I have boated on Cumberland a few times, used to live in Indianapolis. The BBC you had, what was it and what did you run? I assume something like a 454 mag or maybe 502 Mag?

Do you have the dyno numbers on the LS and any reversion issues?

Baja Rooster 06-07-2019 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4690582)
That is huge, how much better did the boat perform and ride? Where do you boat?

I was curious as well, so good to get an explanation.

My 272 Islander is really bow heavy with the helm probably a good 8” forward over the performance model. The ci manifolds and heads have been replaced with aluminum and it takes a LOT of power and prop to get the bow unstuck from the water. I never ran it with the stock ci stuff but the balance is definitely light in the stern.

corey331 06-07-2019 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4690654)
I have boated on Cumberland a few times, used to live in Indianapolis. The BBC you had, what was it and what did you run? I assume something like a 454 mag or maybe 502 Mag?

Do you have the dyno numbers on the LS and any reversion issues?

The BBC was just a 7.4L 310 hp carb motor. The boat was pretty uneventful with that engine. I saw 60-61mph with it on occasion, but mostly ran in the upper 50's with all of our stuff in it and a full tank. I do have the dyno sheets on the LS, but not with me at work. I know it made 577hp at 6100 rpms and 530-540 ftlbs. I can't remember the exact torque number and what rpm it made peak. What I do remember is that it started making 500 ftlbs at 3200 rpm and didn't stop making 500 ftlbs until 5900 or so. That's what impressed me the most about it being a small motor. I think having the extra cubic inches helped that (408ci). But really, its a mild motor. Stock Gen4 6.0 iron block, Callies crank, Callies Compstar rods and Wiseco -8cc pistons. With the CNC ported 317 heads it's right at 10.2:1 Compression. I run it on 93 octane. Victor Jr. intake, AED Holley hp750 carb and Daytona Ignition Smart Spark LS controlling it. The cam is a custom grind and is 243/250, .620/.613, 112LSA and it reverted like a MOFO!!! I had to make the exhaust totally dry. Even dry to the tip sucked a ton of water in. I have some pretty cool slo-mo video that shows it.

Wildman_grafix 06-07-2019 12:49 PM

Not bad Corey, the 93 octane would make it unusable here. To hard to find on the water, and a lot of times we do more then 100 miles round trip or like on a Keys trip they never come out of the water for days.

That has been the biggest issue as I look at different motors etc, they have to be able to run on 90. 90 Non ethanol is what most marinas have down here.

mggdoors 06-07-2019 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4690662)
Not bad Corey, the 93 octane would make it unusable here. To hard to find on the water, and a lot of times we do more then 100 miles round trip or like on a Keys trip they never come out of the water for days.

That has been the biggest issue as I look at different motors etc, they have to be able to run on 90. 90 Non ethanol is what most marinas have down here.

The parameters corey is using us not requiring 93. It can easily be ran on 91. Just would need to be tuned to do so. Mine are 11:1 and running 91. 93 is kust used to maximize power. If you have why not use it

corey331 06-07-2019 01:31 PM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4690662)
Not bad Corey, the 93 octane would make it unusable here. To hard to find on the water, and a lot of times we do more then 100 miles round trip or like on a Keys trip they never come out of the water for days.

That has been the biggest issue as I look at different motors etc, they have to be able to run on 90. 90 Non ethanol is what most marinas have down here.

Like mggdoors said, this could easily be run on 89 octane if you wanted. My timing curve is really not that super aggressive. I think I idle at 7-10 degrees and only advance up to 27 degrees total at full throttle. Good thing is I have tons of access to 93 Octane both on and off the water. State Dock Marina even has 110 Octane available on the docks. I have a 75 gallon tank and I have gone 120+ miles on it and it still has over 1/4 tank left. I would really like to see e85 come available on the water, I'll run that when I add boost this next year.

mggdoors 06-09-2019 09:50 PM

Tested boat today. Runs great. Slight problem. Lack of weight in rear will require reprop. Gets on plane very easy now. Once on plane you can be going straight and it will go whichever way it feels is the best way to crash. Did many drifts today. Ass end every time. Even was going straight at one point the it darted right so I corrected left and it decided to go right even more. Scariest ****ing boat ride ive ever had the pleasure of going on. Main areas its worst is 4k and below. Still starts to drift around 80. Have not pushed them yet as it is unsafe. Will be testing 4 blades next or props turning out. Highest rpm thus far is 5100 and climbing fast. Not the blower motors I had but fast none the less.

hogie roll 06-09-2019 10:17 PM

Sounds like you need to lower the X and shift the CG rear ward somehow. Is there anything up front you can take out? You’re now riding on a CG that’s moved so far forward it may be on the wrong side of your center or pressure on the hull. Combined with the stern being so much higher in the water now, you don’t have any drive or skeg in the water.

mggdoors 06-09-2019 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by hogie roll (Post 4691026)
Sounds like you need to lower the X and shift the CG rear ward somehow. Is there anything up front you can take out? You’re now riding on a CG that’s moved so far forward it may be on the wrong side of your center or pressure on the hull. Combined with the stern being so much higher in the water now, you don’t have any drive or skeg in the water.

keep in mind that this boat also came from the factory as a single. Drives currently have a 1” spacer .5” above prop centerline. I had to have cutting edge add alot of cup last year to get 5 blades to grab for planing. Was slightly squirelly. With 4 blades was harder than hell to get on plane but hadled very well. No sliding. Minimal trim. Turned good. I always thought stern was heavy last year with minor squirelliness and 5 blades but would say I was wrong. I have to believe squirelliness was stern lift issue as it got worse. Front has 3 chairs and 6 lift jackets

MILD THUNDER 06-10-2019 06:12 AM

Props spinning in or out?

mggdoors 06-10-2019 10:01 AM


Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER (Post 4691051)
Props spinning in or out?

In

mggdoors 06-10-2019 10:41 AM

Heres a quick video of here idling through a canyon on. Saguaro Lake AZ.

Baja Rooster 06-10-2019 10:53 AM

You need more women on the back bench. Problem solved and you are welcome. ;)

i know less about cats next to my knowing almost nothing about twins, but it does seem like your ass end is trying to climb up and swap places with the from.

If this was originally a single is there a pod down the center?

It may be worth filling up some 5g buckets of sand and moving them around until you find the sweet spot, but it does sound like you need deeper or different props.

mggdoors 06-10-2019 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Baja Rooster (Post 4691110)
You need more women on the back bench. Problem solved and you are welcome. ;)

i know less about cats next to my knowing almost nothing about twins, but it does seem like your ass end is trying to climb up and swap places with the from.

If this was originally a single is there a pod down the center?

It may be worth filling up some 5g buckets of sand and moving them around until you find the sweet spot, but it does sound like you need deeper or different props.

My boat was originally a twin. What I was saying is you could also get it in a single, which is much less weight but still worked. I never take the wife or kids after heavy work just in case all hell breaks loose. Test test. Test. One other thing that is funny. Even at idle it has no control. Buddy said when on plane my boat looks flat. No bow rise. No stern rise. Just boring old flat

mggdoors 06-10-2019 02:26 PM

Started thing about the scenario. Idling in gear the boat does not go straight well either. I am thinking I have a possible air in steering case, which makes sense considering the boat drives like a willys jeep with a loose steering box

mggdoors 06-10-2019 10:13 PM

Checked steering play in off position. 8” when applying heavy pressure. Lol. Purged air. 1/16”. I think that explains the steering wherever it feels like. Found out drivers trim cylinder is not retracting fully as well. At least not consistently. Will rebuild them tomorrow. Did the other side last summer.

SS496 06-11-2019 08:14 AM

^ hopefully that takes care of it.....Sure helps explain the erratic handling....

mggdoors 06-11-2019 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by SS496 (Post 4691286)
^ hopefully that takes care of it.....Sure helps explain the erratic handling....

I believe that was the issue. Will update this weekend.

Wildman_grafix 06-17-2019 12:20 PM

Any updates?

mggdoors 06-17-2019 09:11 PM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4692299)
Any updates?

Not yet. Havent ran it since the initial run. Hopefully by friday

mggdoors 06-21-2019 12:13 AM

Ran boat today. Runs awesome. Still figuring out what she wants. Boat setup: full fuel (168 gallons, me snd friend, 6 lawn chairs, full cooler, bimini, 10 life jackets, umbrella with auger table, tools, extra set of props, 16 wetsounds speakers, 3 amps, 4 batteries. Throwing this out there just to confirm load. Having to relearn to drive her. Air in steering was issue last time. Straight as arrow now. Tested at saguaro lake 105 degrees running the dual plane manifolds. Ran cutting edge 5 blade 32 and cutting edge 4 blade 30. Started with 5 blade. Both props got her on plane, 5 blade did better planing. Both are labbed. Both slip. 5 blade pulls to 2k for moment then brakes loose and start backing off throttle then off to races. Bow way in air. 4 blade show slippage throughout planing pushing to 3500 back off and off to the races. Bow half as high. On my indicator my drives are level at 2. Ran 5 blade 32 and pushed it to the coals at trim 6-7 saw 82-83 at 4900. Did not try trimming down. Took break at beach and decided to try 4 blade 30. Remember boat would not plane at all with 4 blades last year, well it did twice out of 300 tries. Lol. Ran her around a bit getting the feel then laid the coals to her. Pulled 5k at 83. Hmmmm. Ran it again. Same thing at 6 trim level. Then I decided to trim down to 4. Gps shoots to 91 instantly. Then ran out of room. Was climbing steady though. The interesting part to me isnt the trimming. Its the fact that a 32 5 blade and 30 4 blade both hit 49-5k at same speeds at hang out there. Makes no sense. Other notes. Boat doesnt start packing air till I would say 80. Last year with blower motors I could feel it around 68-70. Now you cant feel it like last year . 4 blades seem to have much better bow control. Boat wants alot of trim to free up snd start moving. 4 blades feel peppier. Both props stable. Afr reading is showing 1.5 differential bank to bank with open spacer so one bank is 10.9 and other is 12.4 wot. Will be loosing them in trade for my single planes next which have much better fuel distribution and more kick in the ass above 4500. Two thing I wish would have happened. 1 I wish I would have trimmed down with 5 blades and 2 I wish I had more room today. Will be removing 1” spacers next along with single planes installed. On a side note I may be running her in havasu tommorrow which will give me the room to stretch her legs. Also bimini in layed down position in its bag was catching enough air to pick it up a foot off the engine cover. Never seen that when folded up and stowed.

Knot 4 Me 06-21-2019 07:12 AM

Need video so we can hear those mills bark! :boat:

mggdoors 06-21-2019 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me (Post 4693046)
Need video so we can hear those mills bark! :boat:

Ill have a buddy video me

mggdoors 06-21-2019 11:52 AM

Just spoke to Auggie. Looks like the stars are aligning. He is going to be in Havasu next weekend. We are going to be doing some prop testing on the water. Just to clarify what I meant with the 32 and 30 I ran. Both props hit a wall at 5k but were doing same speeds. Should have been a 500 rpm differential. Me and auggie are coming to same conclusion. Needs to much trim to break boat free which is then dragging my imco nose cones. I believe the spacer being installed is complicating the issue. His plan is to bring some props with added cupping to hold the bow at less trim. It sound like he is going to bring 28 4 and 5 blades. Btw one other note. Oil temp. Hangs out at 190 all day long. See 210 wot. That is why I like the big 3x18 oil cooler with an oil thermostat. Doesnt get much more consistent than that. Oil pressure at hot idle always 40 even after wot.

mggdoors 06-21-2019 11:56 AM

Trim level 6
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...3656774758.jpg

SB 06-21-2019 12:20 PM

So, how do you keep your skin from catching fire in those temps ? If doing something active,my skin melts off my body over 75*F. If casually hanging out low 80's is my limit.

I prefer working in outside temps of 45-60 (work pants and work t-shirt)with no breeze. 55-65 with a breeze. :)

mggdoors 06-21-2019 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by SB (Post 4693106)
So, how do you keep your skin from catching fire in those temps ? If doing something active,my skin melts off my body over 75*F. If casually hanging out low 80's is my limit.

I prefer working in outside temps of 45-60 (work pants and work t-shirt)with no breeze. 55-65 with a breeze. :)

I grew up in Needles CA. Hottest place in the US. Literally 125-130 normal. I got so used to it that I laughed in Iraq when I seen people whining about 110. Now I own garage door company in Phoenix. 115-120 outside. 140-160 inside where I work. Like working inside an easy bake oven. Lol.


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