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Old 12-20-2021 | 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy
Correct me if Im wrong but if you have an injector failure in direct port injection that hole has no help and immediately goes lean ? boom.......... the TB injectors in the Whipple should blend in and possibly save it
That is theoretically a risk. But in practice fuel injectors are very reliable. I think that big whipple cramming the front four ports harder than the rear is a bigger risk than a port injector failing. My second job was at Bosch making fuel injectors so I’ve got some experience here.

By my count I’ve owned 94 fuel injectors in my life, driven about 1 million miles over the road and boated at least 1000hrs and I’ve never had a failure. How about you guys?

I did burn a piston once when my coil on plug died and I kept driving it until it washed down the cylinder.
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Old 12-20-2021 | 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hogie roll
Mother mercury tuned engines really rich for a long time. I’d bet they knew about fuel distribution issues and fattened them up until the leanest cylinder was safe.


Dan if you can stomach the complexity, port injectors and pre blower injectors would be really cool. The whipples seem to work better wet, my theory is that effectively tightens them up a bit. It could just be due to evaporation though.

My last week of work as an employee is this week. My first entrenpenurial endeavor will be to design a full length primary tube extender for the stainless marine manifolds, I’ll probably work up a 4 port O2 sensor plate too. Probably would only be needed for when you are tuning, then you could lock it and take all of them out. Maybe just keep one permanent afterwards for safety.
The rich part about mercury is accurate and I believe you are correct.
I`m in for 50% in the blower 50% in the port. Talked to Keith Eikert today on injector placement. He loves them tunnel rams and since Dart discontinued their intake with the injector bosses he`s also using the Profilers and welding in injector bungs.
I like your tube extender idea. I have stainless marine III`s so if you need anything let me know. Good luck!
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Old 12-20-2021 | 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by getrdunn
What ones? I’ve only had weiands, b&m’s and blower shops 8-71’s. Just curious what the method behind it is also.
PSI blowers have the pie shaped opening. That pic Dan posted isn’t anything stock merc I’ve ever seen.
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Old 12-20-2021 | 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
The rich part about mercury is accurate and I believe you are correct.
I`m in for 50% in the blower 50% in the port. Talked to Keith Eikert today on injector placement. He loves them tunnel rams and since Dart discontinued their intake with the injector bosses he`s also using the Profilers and welding in injector bungs.
I like your tube extender idea. I have stainless marine III`s so if you need anything let me know. Good luck!
Im glad you like the idea because I was planning on you being the guinea pig 😂.

Maybe a Dyno party a Arcticfriends’ shop in our future.
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Old 12-21-2021 | 10:07 AM
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That Merc pic looks to be a 500EFI that had a Whipple 2.3 w/inner cooler installed

You can run 16 injectors with one in the port and one in the throttle body. Ive done that. Ive also run 80lb injectors in the port and 60lb injectors in the throttle body. You get a better load of fuel in the port.

If you have an injector go bad(lean) in the port it usually will set off a knock sensor.
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Old 12-22-2021 | 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Unlimited jd
PSI blowers have the pie shaped opening. That pic Dan posted isn’t anything stock merc I’ve ever seen.
psi uses a diverter plate to even the distribution,that makes for more even cylinder filling.
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Old 12-23-2021 | 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy
Correct me if Im wrong but if you have an injector failure in direct port injection that hole has no help and immediately goes lean ? boom.......... the TB injectors in the Whipple should blend in and possibly save it
Yes and no,
1. best case scenario, IF a port injector were to die completely, that cylinder would lose 50% of its fuel, go from say 11.8 to 17.7, would be lean enough where it should run so bad it DOESNT hurt the piston and is noticable to a diligent operator
2. worst case scenario, a port injector falters, flows low say 30%, that cylinder goes lean 15% then, from 11.8 to 13.57, lets say its a "lean" cylinder to begin with, goes to 14.5 , operators driving into sun, has a few beers in him, has sticks on the dash, piston exits slowly thru exhaust and we have a new thread on OSO.
3. Common plenum blown efi, wot, tuned to 11.80, 1 injector going to plenum quits, goes 12.5% lean, average tailpipe AFR goes from that 11.8 to 13.27, "lean" cylinder goes to 14.27, piston exits slowly out exhaust port if operator doesnt hear it coughing.
Injector flowing/testing should be done occasionally,personally on a boosted motor, id clean/flow them every spring , helps that I own a ASNU machine and do it as part of my business though!
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Old 12-23-2021 | 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hogie roll
That is theoretically a risk. But in practice fuel injectors are very reliable. I think that big whipple cramming the front four ports harder than the rear is a bigger risk than a port injector failing. My second job was at Bosch making fuel injectors so I’ve got some experience here.

By my count I’ve owned 94 fuel injectors in my life, driven about 1 million miles over the road and boated at least 1000hrs and I’ve never had a failure. How about you guys?

I did burn a piston once when my coil on plug died and I kept driving it until it washed down the cylinder.
I agree, I'd be far more concerned with uneven afr's/poor distribution vs a injector flowing low/going lean. I see these uneven afr's so much on my dyno with 02 sensors it really made me rethink tailpipe AFRS when tuning on water. Some of the first mercruiser NA engines I tuned on water had afr's in low to mid 11's stock , even in high 10's sometimes. I would tune them to mid to upper 12's NA at wot. A few years later I started flowing/cleaning injectors as part of my business, now, keep in mind most mercruiser injectors that come to me are either out of a 20 year old engine being rebuilt, maintenance or because it did melt down a piston/valve. So its not un-common on these 20 year old ones to see one 10, 12% high/low. shortly after I started flowing/cleaning injectors, I added the extra 8 o2 sensors on my dyno. Now, we see a average delta of 2 to 2.5 afr points richest to lean on a typical NA mercruiser , so lets say 1.25 afr points lean from our average. So, my old tail pipe average of 12.8 means I could theoretically have a cylinder at 13.5, 14.0 at wot, IF customer reused 20 year old injectors that I flowed and cleaned and were good at the time the engine went in boat, maybe they will falter 3, 4, 5% in 5 years. At that point, I LOWERED my afr targets I shoot for in boat at tailpipes to acct to add a little safety margin for worst case scenario's. At that point I also REFUSED under no circumstances to tune any EFI boat on water with unknown, old injectors (flowed /cleaned them before tuning on water). That goes back to tailpipe afrs, they may look good but the one under achiever on one cylinder might be the ashtray maker!
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Old 12-23-2021 | 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mike tkach
psi uses a diverter plate to even the distribution,that makes for more even cylinder filling.
And 47 excakibur (or was it s30) noted earlier they did these on some whipplevrngines before, and I’m under impression Deadpeoplessee’r needs to do this too between blower discharge and intake ?

Anyone have some pics ?
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Old 12-26-2021 | 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
As you can see in those sheets , I`m at 8.3:1 running 10 psi.
12psi? no way , unless race gas.

I`m going down to 8psi, at 8psi I`ve never melted any pistons or had any catastrophic damage .
10 psi your tune better be perfect or boostane each fill up.

All this damage was done at 4psi, 4000 rpm 12.5afrs and 31.5* wot is safer than peak TQ.cylinder pressure .. so from now on it`s WOT everywhere I go

Was told in back to back dyno pulls 1471 at 10 lbs and swapped at 8.3 whipple and was able to add 2 lbs due to the cooler intake temps ..Same day , same air,same temps

Last edited by PROP STAR; 12-26-2021 at 03:54 PM.
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