The question should be who has a former F1 or F2 boat interested in racing it again. The other question is what is engine rule? And finally, are newer boats allowed?

Once you establish a set of rules any boat that fits in the class should be allowed to run it's hard enough to build a class there's no reason to exclude anybody.

I kinda thought that was the original question and I also stated we would cross the engines bridge when I got 10-15 boats per class. The other point is why wouldn't new boats be allowed that's the only way this will grow!!!

My Kryptonite is retired from racing. The Velocity (F2) has 650HP Blower motors and is for sale at the end of the year. 25k no engines.
What exactly do you have in mind Sean?

Sean do you honestly think you can re invent the wheel using old wheels? I love the enthusiasm but it's just another ride on the merry-go-round.

This is my opinion and MY OPINION alone. Sean has a great idea, it was informally presented to me and I am listening, however, can not commit until a motor package is released to even see if it is even feasible to come back out with a 2 boat team. A perfect example is the Class 7 in OPA. A few years back they came out with the idea and called it S.O.B. and it had a ton of people interested, however it flopped. Over the past 2 years it was brought back to the table and now basically accounts for 1/3 of OPA's boat count.

Here are the hurdles I see Sean confronted with:
1) No one has a motor that is even close to being stock from the motors presented in the start of this thread, hence the cost of acquiring a new motor that Sean spells out
2) The location(s) of where this class would take place offers very limited to no tech with this being a "spec class"

The above is just the surface but with Sean's know how, can be easily overcome, Another thing I see if this transpires is you are cherry picking eligible boats from existing classes that since the Factory classes officially dissolved in 2008 will make the strong classes now depleted and instead of having 1 class with 10 boats, you now have 2 classes with 5 a piece so to speak for example purposes.

The Factory series was an incredible series and hopefully it can be re-invented to the modern era, but with my boat being the last Factory boat that competed, I got with the organization and canceled the class for a reason and relegated the boat to racing in the brackets.

Keep your head up Sean, besides myself I know there is a ton of people out there that will help you in any way, my only suggestion at this time is to get with Smitty and come up with a motor package, present it to the racers and you will either get commitments or lack there of. You need to take the bull by the horns as the racers dont need to be telling you and the organization the rules, you and Smitty need to dictate them and the racers either follow or dont

Factory racing was to promote NEW boats .
Leave the older boats alone ,they are fine where they are .

If you want tosee real factory race ,you need the constant influx of new factory built boats .

Mike, its a different time and economy, that was the original intent of the factory series, however, how many manufacturers do you see putting new boats out there on the circuit for marketing purposes. Formula was the last to make an attempt in 2010-2011 with a 2001 F2 382 .

That was my point , thank you . :drink:

I do happen to know where a certain Factory-1 Active Thunder is stored, and you have my attention. HOWEVER, If you are thinking of an "all Mercury Racing" spec engine, I'm OUT!
That would be re-living a part of offshore racing history that dropped the sport from the previously mentioned heyday, to the sad state it has become today.

Ok sorry I have been away for a few days lots of hurdles.....

1) No current manufacturer is going to build new boats for a factory class and the line to buy those boats is not around the block.
2) The old boats will attract attention IF they come out to race.
3) This is not an all Mercury program however it will be a 502 based engine program.
4) If you have no positive input please refrain from posting I happen to know all the negatives.
5) If you have a boat and are interested email me [email protected] or text me 6093175466.

I have been making progress behind the scenes and I'm getting more and more excited.....who knows if it will work I certainly don't but once upon a time it did!!!

DISPLACEMENT: *Maximum 510 CID, with a 4” stroke crankshaft only.* Crankshaft throws must be in accordance * with OEM specifications.


COMPRESSION RATIO: Maximum compression ratio of 9.0:1.*


CAM: *Any hydraulic roller cam *with *a *maximum intake lift of .610 inch and exhaust lift of .632 inch measured at the valve with zero lash is the only cam allowed, with an OEM stock gear timing chain, no belt driven timing chain systems are allowed.* Variable cam timing not allowed. * * **


BLOCK: Chevrolet designed blocks, with their OEM specifications, NO MODIFICATIONS, manufactured by *General Motors, World Products and Dart must be approved by Stinson **

MATERIALS: *Crankshaft, Flywheel, connecting rods, pushrods, and wrist pins must be made of steel, Titanium or other materials are not allowed


HEADS: The approved cylinder head is the Dart Pro I Head, Part Number*19100010*M (bare head) or 19100112M (complete head with valves and springs) with their stock OEM specifications, no modifications allowed. 1.7 ratio rocker arms on stud mounted rocker arm shafts only. The head serial numbers must remain on the head and may not be defaced or altered.* The Stock Mercury 525 OEM Head with it’s OEM specifications and no modifications may be used. **


INTAKE MANIFOLD: Any stock cast intake manifold with a Holly Carburetor 4150 style (size) base may be used. No fabricated or tunnel ram type manifolds may be used. Intakes may be port matched up to 1 ½ inches to match cylinder heads. Carburetor spacers or adapters are NOT ALLOWED.


INDUCTION SYSTEM: *One Holley carburetor 4150 style(size) only is allowed.* Naturally aspirated only, no forced induction allowed.


LUBRICATION (ENGINE): *External oil pumps or dry sump systems are not allowed. * * * **


IGNITION SYSTEM: *Engines are required to use the MSD Digital or Analog Ignition system limited to 5800 RPMs. Crank triggers and belt drive ignitions are not allowed.


ENGINES ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE THE IGNITION SYSTEM LIMITED TO 5800 RPMS AND HAVE A G2X DATA LOGGER INSTALLED and maintained to Monitor the RPM level during the race.* The RPM level during the entire race must be verifiable on the Data Logger*

Thoughts

There are a lot of holes in your engine rules. With those rules you can make well over 500 hp. The more rules you have the more you will have to tech the boats/motors this will take a lot of time and money. You are better off giving a cubic inch stipulation, cast intake single 4. And let everyone run what they bring. If you put something together like that you can count the old F1 Donzi in. Other than that I don't believe you will have the resources to tech the boats properly and it's not going to be fair.

Looks intesting. Maybe lose the max com ratio in favor of, must be able to run on 93 oct @ 32 degrees. I only say as we run a higher ratio and not lookin to go down. I think most guys I know with a 502 based na motor run 600 hp give or take . Is that the target? Very do able and economic with oem heads. Just my 02

I bet if I offered you 10k for every win you would close your mouth and pay attention

That's kind of the target but again I'M LISTENING AND VERY FEW ARE TALKING

Just as a discussion point, the engine rules as stated pretty much exclude most class 6 boats.

The key point to me as a competitor, is engine tech.

With the spec the motor should be aprox. 625 hp, should have one on a dyno soon and can give you more info.

But, a single 502/509 with stock heads and 1 carb is fairly inexpensive to build.

With the smaller race course that we race today, the big hp high number isnt as important as torq. Its not how fast u can go its how fast u can get there.

No body said anything about course size

That's why you use a 2 speed transmission (torque multiplier).

So the Sbi motor. Started putting together the parts to build one for the super vee. Then it got interesting. This is what came up. Ned a cam with .610/.632 lift measured at the valve. Answer, really who's gonna be able to measure that at the retainer with a hydraulic lifter. Ohhhh, nobody. Want some smaller journals on the cam for less friction to make more power. Sure why not. How much? Depends, can build two motors to that spec. One will make about 50 hp more than the other. One is cheap, one won't be cheap. Those there rules need to be amended quickly. What was explained to me was that there's a whole Lotta holes I'm those specs. How much do you wanna spend.

I think the internal parts need to be speced further. I.E. One cam builder, cam needs serial #. One rocker arm manufacturer. Lifters same

Exactly what I said. Has to be hydraulic cam just put a solid lifter on it. No external oil pump just put a huge wet sump pan on it (no oil near crank) (I mean huge) Teflon coat everything stick a vac. Pump on it. Gas ported Pistons back cut rings on and on and on. You would need a 100 page rule book on the motor.

Yup, started a conversation with my engine builder at 60 percent battery on my phone. He hadn't even got close to finishing what combination he would throw in that motor and my phone needed the charger plugged in. It was an interesting afternoon. And all within spec.

Yeah it's an easy $40,000 motor. You can't use titanium in the bottom end so I'd just use small block rods. It goes on and on.

Assuming one would have stock heads , no more than 32 timing and pump gas I doubt anyone will get huge differences . With a carb , that is . You still need the boat to go fast and to do that it has to stay together.I would say there should be a drive rule. No super duty Imco or others. The drive in my opinion is the big equalizer. The more juice you put through it , the more it scatters .

Being that it's a spec class there should also be a parity rule. If someone spends all the big money building a motor for no reason the inspectors can mandate les rpm or a restrictor plate and all that time and money was wasted. I think Sean's like idea is to build engines for competitive racing at an inexpensive price the goal is to save money not spend 40,000 on a motor

Or 2. I don't know anyone that would spend that kind of scratch on a production style boat, 2 motors, that is! Btw , on twins , would it be side by side or staggered allowed and would there be a handy cap against a staggered boat or does it matter?

Sean you have me all wrong. If you spent 10k every race on tech there would be NO cheating. If you are willing to do that you have my full attention.

I'm still listening to everybody......so for discussion purposes I'll give you a new motor rules if you wanna cheat, cheat I WILL CATCH YOU, might not be the first time but I will catch you........I have a drive spec as well.......


So continue on gentlemen

factory two was originally side by side No Stagger....

That is the key, catching the cheaters and penalizing them. Need a concrete set of tech regulations and procedures with someone willing to be the bad guy.

How due the 100's of local car tracks all across the USA tec all those cars at every race in short order??????

Not real well. At Bridgeport Speedway (dirt) they use sealed engines in the sportsman/crate class, but as we all know, that doesn't mean much.

Just remember how fast the boats were going with 570 HP at the end. F1 was into the mid 80 MPH and F2 was over a 100 I believe. Do you really want more power?

Our 25 Active Thunder with extension box would run 81, but was a handful. I would suspect 75 would be a reasonable target.

And still will be side by side open cockpit......but again for discussion purposes if we have enough canopied stagger boats we can discuss a class for that as well but let's crawl before we walk and walk before we run....

Do you still go to Bridgeport.....I know a bit off topic