Rob, We can run as many miles and as hard as you want. I would like to get the boats together, that would be great. I typically can not make the whole run on full tanks. I usually top off the tanks at the 1st stop. I try to go to the friday nite party by boat and someone in the crew drives to discovery bay by truck to drive the drunks to the hotel. The boats overnite at the poker run start and finish. Discovery bay is about 30 miles by boat from where we launch and the 1st stop is about 30 miles, hence the need to fill up. We do not have to hit all the stops. There are usually 3 main stops with some lesser stops that we sometimes miss. It will cost me with hotel and fuel and entry under $1000.00 That is alot of money but fuel is the cheapest thing that we can buy for these pigs. Doug

Bob , super job .
I know I gotta dig up some photos for you . My crew chief has photos from start to finish but the nitz can't use a computer !
One of these days I'll get them .
I can't believe the weight . Like I said in another post , we were thrown a curve ball and I'll advised . Every boat I ran was a winner except for that one and throwin money at it didn't help .
I'm glad to see you guys ditchin' the tunnel extensions , just more unecessary weight . Also regarding the deck hatches , my blood pressure spiked when I saw them . Our Jag was the only one that ever had them . Why ? I'll never know and never got a straight answer from Jack . Our relationship was strained and rapidly deteriorated once I got the hull home and started getting inquisitive .
I'm honest to a fault and and a no bull**** straight forward individual . Had I built that boat I would have been forthcoming on any bit of information because I'd want my creation to run successfully , especially at a time when Skater was poised to pounce . I guess I'll just let history do the talking .
When I balked at buying the tunnel extension from Jack for some ridiculous price because I had fabricators on staff who could easily make one , he said no problem , just build it to like 18 degrees ( or something like that ) and you'll be fine . When we go to install it it's hanging down in the tunnel area like a trim tab . I call Jack and he says we also needed to add the transom angle to the 18 degrees so it really wasn't 18 degrees it was 30 or something , but not the angle he said to build it to .
Like I said curve balls .

So what was the top speed you were seeing? What power did you have in it again?

Carbed 500s with Gils as per rules , 1490 hp , Merc V drives , borg warner trans , upper 90's .
My Chris with the same power ran low 120's and would eat it in any water .
I presently own a 42 Fountain and am well into the process of restoring my old Chris Cat to it's original livery .
The Chris Cat is one of the best cat hulls of all time . These fast old race boats of the modern era are like COPO Camaros to me .
They built many more Chris Cats than Jags , however very few survive and only a handfull are probably " race " seaworthy and I'll bet fewer than ten 35 Jags were ever built .

Interesting info aex; thanks for sharing!

I too owned a Chris Cat and liked it. It weighed 8,500# & it took 800 hp per side to run 125 mph. The CC is now owned by another OSO member who uses it on an inland lake; he likes it. It's a great boat, but (in my and my wife's opinion) its not near as good in snotty water (like we get in Galveston Bay) as my Jag. Maybe it's because of the extra 5'?

I removed the tunnel extension and other items too. When converting the Jag, the focus was on reducing weight, better CG (horizontal and vertical), and removing the hook in the sponsons. Note: it doesn't porpoise.

Props seem to be critical to the Jag's performance and with today's prop selections, we probably have a big advantage over what was available when the boats were originally built. Just by getting the correct props (Herings), we picked up 6 mph, but expect more with tweaking. With close to the same engines as in the CC, this boat, which weighs 10,500# runs great (substantially over 90)

Please keep us posted with the resoration of your CC. That's going to be an awesome project!
Due

The Jags are great in the rough ! Hammer down and go !
I was fortunate enough to own one of the last Chris Cats built . The later ones were still slopily built but foam cored so the core was a lot lighter and couldn't absorb the resin they gratuitously slobbered evrywhere during construction .
I had all the wood ( bulkheads , stringers , transom ) removed and replaced with foam / epoxy vaccum bagged replacements . They also ground all the excess slop from inside and cleared the entire inside with awlgrip . It's a sight to behold . I haven't weighed it yet but the builders estimated we shed almost 800 lbs . These guys are real artisans whose resumes include everything from America's Cup winning yachts to aircraft parts . I'm very fortunate to have close ties with these huys otherwise they would never even consider a project like this .
My Chris ( race hull w canopies ) ran low 120's with 1500 horses and I know this for sure . We dusted the video chopper at one race and the pilots told me they could run 115 max with the doors open and couldn't catch us . At that race we also set an average course speed record of almost 118 mph for the 90 mile event . Those were the days !
I to this day can't figure why my Jag was so hefty . I've always liked the Jags 'cause they look like missiles and have clean sharp lines .
I used to rev my motors to the wood , Bob's boat with blowers should make significant torque and propel him to high speeds without pushing the rpm .
I'm very impressed with his project and glad to see how well it has progressed .
You Jag guys got it goin' on . I'll keep an eye here to monitor progress .
PS , I was around when Gifford's Jag was brand new , what a vessel that was .
Best wishes and luck to you all .
Jim

My Chris ( race hull w canopies ) ran low 120's with 1500 horses and I know this for sure . We dusted the video chopper at one race and the pilots told me they could run 115 max with the doors open and couldn't catch us . At that race we also set an average course speed record of almost 118 mph for the 90 mile event . aex

My first ride in a cat was in a 1996 American Offshore 3100. We ran 114 with 675s and Bravos. I think the owner said it weighed around 7200lbs, so with 750s it would probly run low 120s...

I cannot figure why the Jag's are such turds! If you look at the bottom they look like they should do much better speed wise than they do for the power. I would have bet anything based on power and weight i would have been at least 110 and more closer to 120. I think they look great because they are a little different. I get alot of questions and compliments when at havasu because the boat is different than anything else their.

Hi Bob-
Keep working your setup. A couple of things that I believe hinder your Jag's performance: weight distribution and props. I believe Jags perform better with the engines farther forward and they seem to like diameter (unfortunately Bravos are limited). I tried 16.5 diameter, but it runs better with 17".

John Tomlinson and I agree: we believe more diameter is necessary; it might have to do with the water flow around the sponson's pad.

We ran 17.5 diameter on Merc V if this is any help . I'd really like to see that unit Fly ! Don't get frustrated .

I have to agree that that i think the diameter would help alot.

Jim-
That sounds like a lot of work and you removed some serious weight! Let us know where you post the photos.
Thanks!

First off let me say it took some coyones to flip that 35 Jag and I know because I've done it several times .
My Chris is in finish primer ready to rig . Presently motors and misc parts are being prepped . I've dogged it because my family , work , other projects and my 42 Fountain keep me occupied . I really want a high quality authentic restoration and am doing it in it's original livery . This is my favorite boat ever .
I actually knocked the Chris off and called it a 31 Rodeo ( sorry George ) in the early 90's . The hull weighed nothing , ride and speeds were asolutely ridiculous . Unfortunately fast potato chip hulls crack and with a local bank crisis / rebounding local economy I pulled the plug and sold the company . We at Rodeo actually built little boats ( 8' 13' 16' 19' ) so the cat was just an ego thing .
The good thing about being in the boat business here in Rhode Island is I made lifelong uber talented contacts who would dare take on a crummy restoration job like this and provide NASA quality .
Check out the my last few posts you'll see some shots of the finished structure . My first few shots show all the rotted wood , what a mess . One interesting point , if this hull wasn't foam cored I would have scrapped it , Jags are all foam as mine is now so these hulls should linger long after were gone .

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/c...project-2.html

Actually flipping the boat was very easy. I laid out a bunch of old carpet and used the forklift and straps. No surprises and like i said was very easy. Had the forlift boom out and as was booming back in lifting at the same time rolled it right over. I actually have video of it. I can email if you want to see how smooth it was. I have a hot boat magazine test where they tested the 35 Jag and they claim that they have 750 N.A. H.P. and had it at 118 MPH. I dont see hows that possible given the speeds im seeing with 725 supercharged H.P. Have any ideas?

Jim-
I looked at you resto postings: awesome job!
And I love the M-2.

Also saw this photo of your Jag and Gifford on your resto page.

Thanks
John

Thank You .
Unfortunately the M2 was a failure . Construction done in South Africa was questionable , boat too heavy , motors too small . I was involved in concept , design and testing . Once the big money guys , idiot architects and charlatan builders got involved it became a cluster F .
The following renderings depict what I designed and lobbied for , the Andromeda , but she never made it off the drawing board in pure form . They took a sleek luxury racer and made it look like every other yacht , added a 2nd bathroom etc. The boat morphed way off the initial design/concept .
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/a...andromeda1.jpg
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/a...-andromeda.jpg
The M2 60" presently sits in Ft Lauderdale for sale at a fraction of it's initial cost . Had that boat been done by my boys in Bristol I'm sure the end result would have been much , much different .

Jim-
I forgot to add that I liked the Andromeda design more than the M2's original: too bad it didn't work out for you.
Please let us know when your Chris is running.

Bob- I know they're pricy, but have you considered the Hering 6 blade props? Since diameter is not an option for the Bravos, an extra blade might help.
John

I have a set of 32P 5 blade maximus props. They have a better cruise speed than the 36P, but are about 2-3 MPH slower on the top. I would think 6 blades would be even slower.

Bob , on my pleasure boat ( V hull ) I definitely go for cruise efficiency and sacrifice the top end . We all know high speed props lack in lower speed efficiency , however if you run nuts out always it may not be a consideration .
G&G will do prop exchanges as well as B Blades ( I think ) give them a shout . You are in uncharted waters here and just need to keep testing , you've probably got the only Jag ever with Bravos .
What did they use for props on the center console ? That data may help out .

Yes I probably have the only one with bravos. Actually the cruise speed between the 32 and 36 are about the same. Its just that one is a 5 blade 32 and one is a 4 blade 36. Just goes to show the difference between 4 and 5 blades. I think the 4 blade may be a little easier on the drive (more slip) so I am using those. Maybe I will contact brett and give him all my info and see what he has to say. My problem is im looking for 10+ mph and I dont think a prop change will do that without changing the setup some way. I.E. more engine power, ect.

Bob , I hope your not dissapointed . You ran great speeds right out of the box , more speed will come .
What about offshore cleavers ? Any thoughts out there .
Enjoy your accomplishment , way cool boat .

+1

Here are some pics of the boat when I first brought it home.....

More....

Wow! You've come a long way.

Are your fuel tanks in front of the cockpit's forward bulkhead?

No, I mounted aluminum tanks 75 gal. ea. on the sides. Those were fuel cells/bladders that were mounted up in the front. I also had to widen the inside of the boat so the interior would fit with the tanks mounted their.

more pics....and pics of how i mounted tanks. If you look at the top pic you can see how narrow the top of the boat is about 3". Now look at the bottom pic where i monted tank and its about 8" wider.

Pic of buddy at the helm at Havasu...Gas station Havasu...

Great work!

Surely you've seen this vid , your boat in 1991 . At the end of this clip you notice how I slow down . We hit a submerged object broke the gimbal and lost steering . We didn't know why or what had happened from in the cockpit and continued on steering with the throttles . After the race when the boat was craned we saw the problem and were so lucky the bellow held . I'd have hated to swim the murky Hudson .
Who cut out the bulkheads ? Those were all carbon capped and the glass in the hull was also a carbon hybrid with a carbon strand every 12th one or thereabouts .
Have you weighed her yet ? I'm very curious , also repositioning the tanks is a good move in my opinion .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTNRZ...layer_embedded

Jim-
Looks like it was a sweet ride in 1991!
John

And still a sweet ride bro .
Notice that mofo was right on top , still we only got a buck out of it .

Boat weighs 7200 pds. dry ready to run...The only place i saw anything black leading me to believe there was carbon was the transon when i was pluggin the drive holes. I saw 1 layer that looked like carbon fiber. I did all the glass work and modifications to the boat. Unless you saw them place carbon in the mold, I think its another one of those surprises you were talking about. All the other glass I worked on throughout the boat looked like any other type of standard fiberglass material.

Good weight , we were almost 11000 lbs fueled . Our drives were heavier , driveshafts , gear boxes , canopies etc. One thing I'm positive of is the strain that bare hull put the lifting mechanism that hoisted my previous race boat with ease . Also I saw core samples during rigging there was carbon in the reinforcements and I remember carbon ringed openings but hey , that was many years and many boats ago .
Is the inside transom still skinned with 1/4" aluminum plate ? Jack had us put it there for fear bolts would pull through the Airex .

Nope not any more. I took all that stuff out. Actually never saw a aluminum "skin" on the transom. I did put 2 layers of 1708 on the transom on the inside once i plugged all the holes up to help it a bit. Boat has a very solid ride to it. My eliminator would flex a tiny bit when in big water, but this boat can take a beatin and keep on tickin....

Yes , the Jag is rugged . The bottom is about 2" thick and the entire hull is well reinforced .
Like anything common sense goes a long way . When I ran that boat my one and only race partner ever Anthony was and is a great guy but not very mechanical , so in the interest of peace we did follow Jack's guidelines much to my chagrin . I didn't have the nuts to veto a couple of things 'cause if we suffered a failure due to my descision the consequences would have been very expensive . We even had a full aluminum engine frame around the entire engine bed which I felt was unnecessary added weight .
I always thought outside the box . My experience with muscle cars and exotics shaped my thoughts . In 1988 when I built my first set of marine race engines , where most guys ran 496's with 4.25" cranks at 6000 revs I used big bore Bowtie blocks with 3.9 strokes , titanium valves and spun 'em 7200 + revs . Back then you could only buy 1150 Dominators so I had a guy in the Midwest modify them to like 1270cfm or something like that . In our class you could only run a single carb and 1000 CI max . This was all a well kept secret .
Finally in '92 or '93 Merc and Sterling introduced 7200 rpm motors injected motors for Open Class .
Anyway with the weight you shaved and the additional torque your blowers add to the equation the hull speed should increase significantly . I know you are presently wrestling with prop selection , but time , work and patience your project will garner significant gains .
Right now it obvious to me you've created a turn key reliable package .
Keep at it .

My Jag had this too, but removed it along with much of the other "stuff". Note: mine also has carbon reinforcement in some areas.

Bob- Have you dyno'd the engines?
Best
John

wasn't the aluminum frame set up design to be able to move the motor forward and aft before the race, depending on water conditions.

My engines dynoed 720 H.P. and 790 TQ.

I didn't see any extra holes in the frame that would allow relocation of the engines: don't know if that was the plan. There was extensive gusseting throughout the engine compartment. Jack Clark told me that Gifford had planned to try and break the NY to Miami record, but Gifford never made the attempt.